Tekken Tag Tournament 2 General Discussion

[PPJ]

it was allowed? that's cool

 

[Protagonist_1]

Fun times hanging with DanCock at NEC... we played some MK2 sets and I think he beat me 30-1. Awesome games hahaha.

I feel like I did pretty well considering that I play a scant few hours and week and lack matchup experience against half the cast hahaha. I went 3 deep into my pool all in Winners, then faced FightingGM (Lee/Violet) who sent me to losers... where I immediately played Blood Hawk (Markduk/Leo) and was knocked out. I think if I'd beaten Blood Hawk I would've been in losers finals? Nothing I could've done though... I have zero Leo experience. Just my luck that I have to play two of the top players in NYC (the country?) back to back hahaha.

Fun tournament though, I had a good time. I think Dancock recorded one of my matches on his phone. I had enough fun that I might actually try to put a little more time into the game, learn my matchups, try and do better next time. We'll see what life allows!

PS, for anyone who doesn't know, AceUnlimited is NOT new to Tekken or anything. He's been playing since at least DR, if not longer. We used to play a lot back then, but wow has he clearly leveled up. Imagine how big/strong the MK9 scene could've been if it had real netcode...

That's awesome. Sucks you had to face FightingGM and BloodHawk (they play all the time at Big Two at TeamSpooky's stream), but hey it's going to happen when you win 3 in winners. Glad you had fun.

As for Ace, he definitely surprised me. Didn't think he would beat Fab so convincingly, in fact I thought Fab would take the whole thing. Hoping that future mk games really improve the netcode, it could really go a long way. A 2 bar match in Tekken feels like a 5 bar match in MK.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I think I have leveled up to a point where my movement is decent, I can punish aggressive players by forcing whiffs and punish stuff I know is unsafe on block, but where I can also find my openings to get in and start a poke war and apply good pressure by using fast pokes with good recovery on block and good advantage on hit and I feel comfortable in a close range poke war even if I am the one being pressured and low on health.

All you have to do is stay calm, have faith in your own execution and just play a fundamentally solid game and the wins will come...

... but all this applies to characters I play or characters I have match up experience against who are Armor King, King, Lars, Lee and... that's it. Against the rest of the cast I am screwed. Can't play footsies when you don't know the tools the opposing character has. For example Alisas fF2, that move is fucking stupid, it comes out of nowhere, she flies halfway across the screen and hits you for a shitload of damage with the guaranteed ground hit afterwards. It's really hard to keep your cool sometimes when you block a random uf3 from Lars and you mash out 1,1,2 with the Mishimas, just to close the round and the first two hits whiff as he is landing, but the third one gets blocked and yeah you are at -17 and get launched for trying to punish. I hit someone with Heihachis 1,b2 and then use the frame advantage to go for a stonehead... then the throw attempt whiffs because of a random "fuck the frames" hop kick that costs you the match. Sometimes stuff like this pisses me off to no end and the reason why I prefer training mode matches to learn how to deal with different characters/players/playstyles.

 

[Protagonist_1]

snip

lol, it happens. I think Spooky said it best when he said Tekken is a memorization game. You see the string (or blocked animation) and use the proper option to punish. A lot of time's you need to play against a character or see a move constantly so you can be able to react and punish accordingly.

 

[Skkra]

Sometimes stuff like this pisses me off to no end and the reason why I prefer training mode matches to learn how to deal with different characters/players/playstyles.

Just find someone who plays the characters you want to play and grind out the matchup in Player Match. I fought through NEC with almost nothing but fundamentals, as I don't know how to fight a majority of the cast either!

You'll always learn more playing and learning within the context of an actual match rather than using online training mode. If you want to use training mode, the best thing you can do is go into practice and learn the characters yourself so you know them in and out. You can also use Defensive Training mode with a randomized moveset to work on reacting and punishing.

Playing in an actual match - even if you're just doing it to learn and don't know the matchup - teaches you way more than in infinite training. There are so many important metas within the confines of a match that you need to be taking in in addition to the moveset of the other character.

My two cents.

 

[~NAKM~]

Still haven't played anyone from here. >_> Getting bored of the drama at TZ, so figured I play guys from here.

xX-NAKM-Xx

 

[Skkra]

Still haven't played anyone from here. >_> Getting bored of the drama at TZ, so figured I play guys from here.

xX-NAKM-Xx

NAKM, I keep wanting to play with you, just havent had time to play at all outside of NEC. I think we're buddies again on PSN, so I'll tag you here when I know I'm playing. I don't think we've played since... DRO?

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

What do you guys think about wall carry combos? I personally don't go for the wall carry, I just like to get my damage without risking dropping the combo.

The problem for me is that I always hit confirm (on accident) into EZ mode consistent combos that deal slightly less than maximum damage and I forget to press the tag button when I throw out a tag bufferable launcher. I find wall TA! combos too inconsistent + when I have someone against the wall I do not want them to have access to a tag crash.

I don't think Netsu is as big a factor as people make it out to be. If you can't force a tag crash or launch the freshly raw tagged Netsu character you can just turtle them for the 10 second period as you already probably have the life lead. People tend to play less cautious and try to take advantage of the rage dmg by going for big unsafe lows and taking unnecessary chances with sidewalkable attacks. If you can punish the Netsu character with a launch to trade the Netsu to the already tagged out character that has low health by doing a TA! combo, the chances of your opponent making a comeback in that round are pretty slim.

 

[Pikachu]

Add me on xbox Hey Im Pikachu

 

[Skkra]

What do you guys think about wall carry combos? I personally don't go for the wall carry, I just like to get my damage without risking dropping the combo.

If you're going to drop the combo, then just get your damage for now. Otherwise, hit practice mode and work on your wall carry combos. It is always worth carrying someone to the wall. You get the additional wall damage, plus they now have zero room to backdash away from further offense. With my Lili/Zafina team, I can either do 80 damage from the starting position, or I can use my wall carry combo to do 115. The answer is easy.

The problem for me is that I always hit confirm (on accident) into EZ mode consistent combos that deal slightly less than maximum damage and I forget to press the tag button when I throw out a tag bufferable launcher. I find wall TA! combos too inconsistent + when I have someone against the wall I do not want them to have access to a tag crash.

Sounds like you just need to keep practicing, thats all. If you're forgetting to press buttons... well, practice until you dont! In practice mode you can also work on your wall TAs. I find my staples almost never miss regardless of the angle. If you really, really don't want them to have access to a tag crash, just carry them to the wall and don't do a wall TA, but the huge damage a good wall TA can do can be game-changing.

I don't think Netsu is as big a factor as people make it out to be. If you can't force a tag crash or launch the freshly raw tagged Netsu character you can just turtle them for the 10 second period as you already probably have the life lead.

Completely disagree. Netsu is the biggest game-changer in the system. I only tag crash unless I'm about to lose the game - that's how big of a deal it is to get someone in with netsu. Sure, try and launch their raw tag. But don't think you'll just turtle someone out for 10 seconds. Even if I'm just poking you and never get a huge launch, you can easily get opened up and lose a ton of life due to the damage bonus.

People tend to play less cautious and try to take advantage of the rage dmg by going for big unsafe lows and taking unnecessary chances with sidewalkable attacks.

Not meant to be offense with this statement, but you're not playing good enough people. Solid players won't become reckless offensive monsters just because they want big netsu damage. They WILL however search for an opening with which to do huge damage.

 

[Protagonist_1]

Going to have to agree with Skkra on that one (much due respect Smoke_Of_Finland), wall damage combos go a long way, especially with characters that have low damage (hwoarang and baek). When I first started the game I didn't focus on wall damage and would usually get 60-70 dmg. With good use at the wall I can get 80-90+, most characters do even better.

You have to get your wall carry combos down, because you need all the damage you can get. Just makes the flow of the match easier for you, and it puts your opponent at the wall limiting their options.

Very important to have high damaging combos as well. Not like "combo video" damage, but bnbs that give you the most damage. When I used steve and hwoarang I didn't have these either and it cost me many games. Usually just stay in practice mode and grind out certain combos. Then I try it out on ghost mode (to get the feel of doing it in game), then online.

As for Netsu, it's really important. My own character hwoarang is a poke heavy chararcter. Add that with netsu and a flamingo mixup can be lethal. As well as that I try my best not to tag crash, unless you know you're going to die or are in a very tight spot with little health.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

With Heihachi/Kazuya the TA! damage is 90+ into a wall hit with easy mode (no multiple electrics) combos into a wall hit from pretty much any launcher.

With Bryan/Bruce I have been able to get damage in the 110's without a wall hit.

as they hit the wall I can still dash in to get a few hits off, but the damage scales so heavily after 8-10 hits that the damage increase is no more than 10-15 points.

I try stay at the center of the stage in the neutral game. Most of the time my opponent hits the wall after the combo ender. If they raw tag they eat a slash kick. I have been very succesful in either forcing a tag crash or catching the raw tagged character coming in. As they come in at the side of the stage I have all the room in the world to backdash and sidestep out of the way if they try to get in or alternatively I can keep up the pressure/momentum.

With all the stages in the game it's hard to tell where the walls are and how many hits you can pull off to get the wall hit and then use the bound into a TA! Even the top Korean players screw up their wall carry combos sometimes and miss the bound and end up with 50 points of dmg from a launcher.

I always look to catch my opponent raw tagging. Stuff like Heihachis jumping mid kick and Kazuyas Hell lancer do 47 points on regular hit. Bruce can also close the distance very quickly to catch the raw tagged character coming in. With Bryan I can do stuff like fF2 or bdf4 into fF1+2 throw. If I am close enough and they just carelessly raw tag they are gonna get launched.

You have to understand that most of my time in training mode consists of practicing basic movement, wavedashing and other crouchdash cancels and electrics with the Mishimas. I also like to test a lot of poke setups/close range mix-ups with the record function. I can do Bruce's wall carry juggles, but I feel Bryan's wall carry juggles are too inconsistent especially since right now I only play online.

Right now I feel like executing my characters in the neutral game is more important than some swag/YOLO combos that do 120 points of damage when I can just do my basic juggles for 90+ and 100+ dmg. Netsu is a big factor yes, but you get launched for going full retard in trying to steal the round by not allowing the other player to tag out.

 

[Skkra]

I try stay at the center of the stage in the neutral game.

I always look to catch my opponent raw tagging. If I am close enough and they just carelessly raw tag they are gonna get launched.

You have to understand that most of my time in training mode consists of practicing basic movement, wavedashing and other crouchdash cancels and electrics with the Mishimas.

The optimum strategy in any competition within a ring is to push your opponent up against the ropes. Just look at how important it is in boxing to stay off the ropes. In Tekken, just like any real-life competition, you should try to push your opponent's back against the wall to limit their options.

Catching raw tags is great, and if the opponent is predictably going to tag to get in a partner with netsu or something, hopefully you can launch them for it. If not, just keep doing your thing.

I've said this before, and I won't mention it again after this, but I think you're concentrating on the wrong things. Being able to do consistent electrics is a great skill, sure, but you're still working on your fundamentals. You're trying to put the details on a car without even having the engine ready. Wavedashing and eletrics are amazing tools for Mishimas at high level, but since your game is still developing, I would concentrate much more on your fundamentals and just playing as many player matches online as possible. Continue to get character and general Tekken experience as much as possible.

 

[Crimson Panther]

PSN: GnG_Crimson
Add me if you want to play some matches sometime.

 

[Qwark28]

The optimum strategy in any competition within a ring is to push your opponent up against the ropes. Just look at how important it is in boxing to stay off the ropes. In Tekken, just like any real-life competition, you should try to push your opponent's back against the wall to limit their options.

Catching raw tags is great, and if the opponent is predictably going to tag to get in a partner with netsu or something, hopefully you can launch them for it. If not, just keep doing your thing.

I've said this before, and I won't mention it again after this, but I think you're concentrating on the wrong things. Being able to do consistent electrics is a great skill, sure, but you're still working on your fundamentals. You're trying to put the details on a car without even having the engine ready. Wavedashing and eletrics are amazing tools for Mishimas at high level, but since your game is still developing, I would concentrate much more on your fundamentals and just playing as many player matches online as possible. Continue to get character and general Tekken experience as much as possible.

?? why not practice EWGF and kazuyas basic movement considering these are the tools he lives and dies by to win? a kazuya without ewgf or the ability to rapidly wavedash is severely crippling himself

i myself have had the game for about 5 days, only played a few friends so far, didnt have time to play lately but all my training has lead to consistent ewgf/dewgf/sewgf so that i could actually punish with this character considering how generally unsafe he is and the fact someones new to le game

execution doesnt cripple learning in any way, considering how easy EWGF's and their varieties are anyways it only takes about a month max to consistenly do them, my execution is pretty horrible, cant do simple cyrax resets yet ewgf and variants were easy to learn

 

[Qwark28]

gusy add me on psn, bop_ruby

 

[Skkra]

?? why not practice EWGF and kazuyas basic movement considering these are the tools he lives and dies by to win? a kazuya without ewgf or the ability to rapidly wavedash is severely crippling himself

Rapid washdashing is not "basic movement." Kazuya doesn't live or die by wavedashing and EWGF. You're confusing his TOOLS for his FUNDAMENTALS. Kazuya lives and dies by the exact same rules that apply to every other character: good spacing, smart offense, solid defense.

Sure, yes, you can work on your electrics and all, but it is a PLAGUE in this forum and among new players in general that everyone wants to work on all of the most advanced tactics and techniques in the game (because that's what they see the pros do), and they haven't even been playing for 6 months.

i myself have had the game for about 5 days, only played a few friends so far, didnt have time to play lately but all my training has lead to consistent ewgf/dewgf/sewgf so that i could actually punish with this character considering how generally unsafe he is and the fact someones new to le game

Do you mean you've been playing Tekken for about 5 days total, ever? I imagine I'm reading that wrong. If so, I have serious trouble believing that in one week you've developed a consistent DEWGF, one of the hardest techniques in the entire game. Also, characters are not unsafe - players are unsafe. Everyone in the game can be played with safe pokes if you choose your moveset correctly.

execution doesnt cripple learning in any way, considering how easy EWGF's and their varieties are anyways it only takes about a month max to consistenly do them, my execution is pretty horrible, cant do simple cyrax resets yet ewgf and variants were easy to learn

No, execution doesn't cripple learning, but when a player asks for advice and says that they don't do wall carry combos because they drop them, but spends their time practicing electrics... well, it should be the other way around.

I'm not trying to say don't practice execution. It's just that everyone gets huge boners about working on their electrics and other very high-level tactics but they don't even have remotely solid fundamentals. I'm not trying to dump on anyone - if you look through EVERY post I've ever made about Tekken here, I'm trying to be constructive and help. But everyone thinks they know best right away nowadays. What do I know, I've only been playing the game for over a decade.

 

[Sutter Pain]

I will say Skkra is pretty much right, on this one. If I would have spent half the time learning how to punish various moves from the cast my game would be much better. If you wan't to take a Mishima right off the bat its gonna be tough thats all there is to it. Has anyone tried to punish a -14 frame move with a EWGF its fucking tough compared to just hitting d/f+2 with pachi. If your using Kaz and can not punish -14 with EWGF your missing a launch and at -14 Kaz has no other launch options.

Pick a alt with easy execution to take some of the burden off it really helps.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I will say Skkra is pretty much right, on this one. If I would have spent half the time learning how to punish various moves from the cast my game would be much better. If you wan't to take a Mishima right off the bat its gonna be tough thats all there is to it. Has anyone tried to punish a -14 frame move with a EWGF its fucking tough compared to just hitting d/f+2 with pachi. If your using Kaz and can not punish -14 with EWGF your missing a launch and at -14 Kaz has no other launch options.

Pick a alt with easy execution to take some of the burden off it really helps.

The best I have been able to do with trying to use EWGF as a block punisher has been -18. I will not be block punishing with it for months or even trying to for that matter. It seems like the trick is to slightly hold forward as you are coming out of the block stun before going to d, df+2, because the crouchdash input can't be buffered during the block stun.

However If you are at -14 vs Skillpachi/Bryan, than, well "You goin' to jail nah! You goin' to jail!"

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I came across some guy in the world arena lobby who was playing Mishimas too and he was pulling electrics straight out of a wavedash and multiple electric combos. I didn't like mirrors in MK, but damn, we had some Kazuya/Heihachi mirrors and it was the most fun I have had with this game so far.

EDIT: I had an absolute blast yesterday playing almost the entire cast with a friend. We just started picking random characters and played some stupid matches like Dr B. Mirrors and just abused a core set of moves like: Jack-6: fF1, db1, b1,1 df2 Law: b2,2, b3+4 etc.

I am a big Bruce Lee fan. The Law's are really fun to play, they just feel so smooth and fast. I might actually look into them in training mode for real sometime.

 

[Qwark28]

Rapid washdashing is not "basic movement." Kazuya doesn't live or die by wavedashing and EWGF. You're confusing his TOOLS for his FUNDAMENTALS. Kazuya lives and dies by the exact same rules that apply to every other character: good spacing, smart offense, solid defense.

Sure, yes, you can work on your electrics and all, but it is a PLAGUE in this forum and among new players in general that everyone wants to work on all of the most advanced tactics and techniques in the game (because that's what they see the pros do), and they haven't even been playing for 6 months.



Do you mean you've been playing Tekken for about 5 days total, ever? I imagine I'm reading that wrong. If so, I have serious trouble believing that in one week you've developed a consistent DEWGF, one of the hardest techniques in the entire game. Also, characters are not unsafe - players are unsafe. Everyone in the game can be played with safe pokes if you choose your moveset correctly.



No, execution doesn't cripple learning, but when a player asks for advice and says that they don't do wall carry combos because they drop them, but spends their time practicing electrics... well, it should be the other way around.

I'm not trying to say don't practice execution. It's just that everyone gets huge boners about working on their electrics and other very high-level tactics but they don't even have remotely solid fundamentals. I'm not trying to dump on anyone - if you look through EVERY post I've ever made about Tekken here, I'm trying to be constructive and help. But everyone thinks they know best right away nowadays. What do I know, I've only been playing the game for over a decade.

I never stated that fundamentals don't matter nor am I against learning, but you can't practice both execution and fundamentals at the same time while in my opinion, as much as it matters, it's better to be able to put knowledge to use, if it's manageable to execute the moves with comparatively little time spent then you should go for it.

Fundamentals ARE above all.

I'm comparing the game to MK, most moves I see are -, I'm adjusting around that.

not a DEWGF, I had confused the term, I do EWGF and SEWGF but only 70% of the time online on a good connection, ive been practicing them since sfxt but its harder in TTT2

 

[Protagonist_1]

Really hype set at Wednesday Night Fights. The sound blew up like twice, and Just Frame James is insane. DAT YOSHI!

http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/345663409 (occurs at 2:00:00)

 

[~NAKM~]

NAKM, I keep wanting to play with you, just havent had time to play at all outside of NEC. I think we're buddies again on PSN, so I'll tag you here when I know I'm playing. I don't think we've played since... DRO?

Yeah we haven't played since then. You're on my friends list so hit me up if you're online.

 

[Qwark28]

Yeah we haven't played since then. You're on my friends list so hit me up if you're online.

add me as well, bop_ ruby

does anyone know how to consistenly korean backdash? my version is a bit faster than dahsing back but not that much

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

add me as well, bop_ ruby

does anyone know how to consistenly korean backdash? my version is a bit faster than dahsing back but not that much

PRACTICE.

At first it's just important to get used to repeating the input without messing it up and keeping your hands relaxed and not straining/forcing it. Speed will come with time.