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Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

Gurpwnder

Saikyo Student
So can someone please explain why in T6, TTT2, and probably all Tekkens before them, Yoshimitsu has just been shit-tier lol? Is it just down to his weird moves and that most of them don't serve a useful purpose?
I really wanna get into T7 and learn the meta after playing Injustice and MKX for years since I grew up with Tekken and love and recognise all the characters.
But if my fav Yoshi is really THAT bad then I'll probably start doing heroin.
If it's any consolation, I remember Aris was saying that Yoshi's looking better than TTT2 and T6, but still not very solid.
 

Kooron Nation

More Ass and Tits for MK11
In the Josie mirror DF2 doesn't punish in time and it's 14frames, but 143 I think punishes. So it must be like -12 or something. Poke punish only. #BuffJosie

Heihachi is so slipping under the radar it isn't even funny. I'm betting anything he gets the release date buffs and ends up top tier, once again Lol.



Funny thing is, that through Tekken 1-4 and TTT1 Yoshi was either mid tier'd or high tier'd. In Tekken 4 when Jin was literally one of the most broken tournament allowed characters of all time Yoshi was his only MU that was considered a possible loss.

However, once Tekken 5 came it all went downhill. Eternal punishment for offending the Great Tekken 4 Jin. Even in death Tekken 4 Jin's effects are everlasting...
So I have Jin to blame for this hypocrisy?!?!
I will murder all online Jin players in T7 just you watch, including @Eddy Wang
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
So I have Jin to blame for this hypocrisy?!?!
I will murder all online Jin players in T7 just you watch, including @Eddy Wang
Doubt it, the only Jins you'll be murdering are the ones starting in the meta as yourself, otherwise, veteran Jin players who are drooling over the current changes like me will be way above many people's league, unless you're an experienced Korean or Japan player with movement down, if you don't pick a direct bad MU for the Karateka against a meta Jin i can assure you, you will have the battle of your life. Let me break it to you:


The Tekken 7 FR jin is unlike any jin people have faced before , definitely the best version of him since T4, Jin has been steadily buffed since t5 DR until now, his major issue was lack of a safe launcher and consistent filler extensions since he was a movement character.

They gave jin a launching EWHF without being counter hit, this means Jin no longer needs to guess when ppl will attack and challenge them with EWHF it was a huge risk with very low reward and ppl could just duck and wait for the EWHF anyway and if it hits, as long as i wasn't CH you'd be fine, instead now he gets to focus on moment like his daddy Kazuya, and when you get greedy and let a long recovery normal out, he can completely avoid it and let it rip, something many Jin's players felt he was lacking.

point #2: Jin filler extensions are super consistent: Since he was a character with very horrible bounds, the change to Kirimomi system (Screw system) gave jin load share of Screws for every possible situation and height, just so you can have an idea:

EWHF: i14F !S launcher, +5 on block, hits high, hitbox expanded on the sparks, it just needs to graze you.



Standing 4, also named "Magic 4" 11f screw on airbone characters on any position, its his most consistent screw attack frame traps to +15 on hit, crumple stun on counter hit which gives him a combo, its a homing move (cannot be side stepped) hits hight, -9 on block (means its safe even from 12 jabs)

124, last hit screws on air block characters, knocks down midscreen, wallspat on the wall, works in any direction
Zen 3: frame traps on hit, screws on CH or crumple or airbone, its a homing attack, its a mid, comes out from zen -9 on block with a pushback

Ws3: a spinning kick with the same proprities of zen 3 and can be used even from wavedash mixups

DB3: screws on CH, low profile highs, safe on block, hits high, tons of damage

Those are basically his screw moves, don't really want write you an essay, but i need to tell you, before you or anyone start to murder meta jins, you guys have a lot of bullshit to deal with

point #3: can get a combo from anywhere, on the wall, on wakeup, on random hits, on ch, on throws, he still has EVERYTHING.

So, i'm just leaving out right now, the EWHF, s4, F4, Zen that low profiles highs, or f4~zen~1+2 frame traps, ws3, and all his moveset out of the equation and will just add the juice to the cup.

On top of all the bullshit including damage my main can do now, which is over the top, every character in the tekken is now binded into a general rule gameplay, every character dashes as fast and as furthest as the best movement character in the game, every character sidestep as fast and as furthest as the best sidestepper character in the game, this includes Jin who was one of the slowest dashers, slowest sidesteppers.

So when dealing with meta jins, now there is a new layer which is movement, my kazuya used to be godlike at spacing, and my jin was too even though he didn't had many ways to compensate as much, but now, its all lined up.

Cool right, now add this:
Supers, Ragedrives ( i can exploit these things) armor on 3+4 and running tackle.
50-50 launchers, a throw that switches sides if you break it, its 9f like king's throw, if you don't break he gets damage, on a floorbreak stage he gets a floorbreak
safe uf2 that wallsplats

i don't care if you're Bryan, Paul, or whatever, my boy is ready:
Zen 1+2 Frametrap (Just look at the fucking damage)


F4 on CH no wall 70%, with wall it goes way beyond




So, Bring the fuck on, i'll be ready for any of you tho (in a good way of course, don't take us lightly).

(Tom Brady's voice): Yeah well GG Bro :)



Good Luck :)
 
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Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
@Eddy Wang really appreciate the detailed response. I understand none of the notations nor most of the terms you used, but basically what I got from this is that Jin is OP and I will destroy him with Yoshimitsu.
GG's
oh no he is not OP, he just way different from the formula ppl were used to, now is stupid solid, all you need to know its on the gifs, the rest you will experience yourself.

Im gonna beat jin like i was his daddy..................



(Cause i play Kazuya :cool:)
Looking forward to this, since i also main Kazuya. Specially if you can do CH Df2~PEWGF which is like Akira's knee version of Kazuya.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
oh no he is not OP, he just way different from the formula ppl were used to, now is stupid solid, all you need to know its on the gifs, the rest you will experience yourself.


Looking forward to this, since i also main Kazuya. Specially if you can do CH Df2~PEWGF which is like Akira's knee version of Kazuya.
13f EWGF.....i got thise sometimes. Im a bit rusty but ive been hitting ttt2 since it is backwards compatible on xbone.
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Jin has been my main for years I just didn't like him in tag2 horrible tag fillers etc. I've been watching the green arcade and like what I'm seeing.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Jin's weakness is range 0 counterpoking (Not offensive poking, he can pile on a lot of pokes and put on good pressure). The lack of a generic d4 (i12, high crush, very good tracking) is compensated by having his i13 standing 4 which is a high homing move. This move is unique because it cannot be under any circumstances that it is used as a counterpoke be sidestep-blocked. Kazuya's i14 df2 is in a gray area of being sidestep-blockable. I15 homing moves that are thrown out as counterpokes can be sidestep-blocked consistently.

Anyway, let's go through Jin's options to counterpoke the usual 1, 1,2 and generic df1 pressure you see.

Generic jab strings = Steppable, duckable and launch punishable as with any other character.

2,1. 2nd hit has slight tracking to Jin's left. Can't be sidestepped right by the offensive player, however can be sidewalked. Absolutely piss-poor range, any poke with the slightest pushback on block into a backdash will make it whiff on a counterpoke attempt. Committing to the last hit on a visually confirmed whiff on the 2,1 can potentially save Jin from a whiff punish and score a counterhit with the last hit of the string, but this is a big if as 2,1 has poor recovery on whiff. 2nd hit of 2,1 comes out fast enough to prevent people from ducking into a while standing launcher.

f3 and 1+2. 12 frame mids that are completely linear, one safe with low dmg, the other one high dmg and -14 on block and a knockdown. Both blow up twitch ducking and hard ducking.

df1. 13 frame mid that is completely linear, both follow-ups on a read can be blown up severely. Mid option comes out too slowly to be a real mix-up. Both are delayable, high will track and hit people who push buttons (don't remember which direction, I think it was to Jin's right)

Standing 4. 13 frame homing high as stated. Launches on CH. Easiest thing to launch punish if read and it whiffs. On normal hit it goes into the standing tailspin animation now which is a huge buff, I am not sure about the frames but i think it gives a huge frame advantage now.

Ok so what is there to take away from this? It means that when Jin is being pressured. All of his most notable pokes can be launch punished if the right read is made by the offensive player on what the Jin will do. If Jin makes the right call he gets moderate damage. All launching dmg options Jin could put out come with a huge risk. This automatically means that Jin players have to simply backdash quite a bit when pressured or just sidestep block, basically do anything else a lot besides counterpoke... which can be exploited by just ruthlessly following up pokes from the offensive player with more pokes, an instant running 3 or a big low/throw. Throws can not be counterhit launched (with standing 4). When Jin is forced to block common pokes like jabs or generic df1's that are -1 on block the risk/reward and initiative is massively tilted towards the player fighting against Jin. You must exploit this weakness to the best of your ability if you want to beat this character.

Jin players need to be aware of these situations if they want to truly overcome this flaw and master the character. If you get stepped and launched once, don't immediately use standing 4 the next time your opponent uses the same set-up. He might just anticipate the standing 4 and duck in your face. Jin has other unique defensive options at his disposal like his parry, df1+2 sabaki or maybe just going into Zenshin with b1 for the backsway effect. However, this just means that you have more options, none of which can cover multiple scenarios as a generic d4 or a df1 with full one-directional tracking would.
 
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Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
@Eddy Wang really appreciate the detailed response. I understand none of the notations nor most of the terms you used, but basically what I got from this is that Jin is OP and I will destroy him with Yoshimitsu.
GG's
I see online FT5's coming with this trash talk. Angola to Australia 1 bar underwater lag, worse than MK9. Unreactable Yoshi unblockables and unsteppable running 3's incoming let's go guyz :D
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
13f EWGF.....i got thise sometimes. Im a bit rusty but ive been hitting ttt2 since it is backwards compatible on xbone.
I once jumped in practice mode, did 4 CH df2-PEWGFs in a row from P2 side. Couldn't believe it, went to the kitchen, got some coffee, jumped back in practice mode and could only land 1 in 50 attempts :D
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Speaking of execution stuff I have never ever been able to do Bryan's taunt-jet uppercut or taunt-b4. Taunt-f2,1,4 comes easily though. I think you need a lagless monitor to even practice and attempt the jet upper and b4.

Edit. Btw, with the loss of d1 bind, Heihachi lost his big body specific combos which involve the initial launcher into EWGF - f3 - EWGF - d1. also the EWGF - OTGF - EWGF - d1 combo was lost. Only way to pull these off now is with a d1 floor break. That one stage with multiple floor breaks could actually give Heihachi a death combo or 70% - 80% at the very least.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
http://rbnorway.org/jin-t7-frames/

RB Norway lists Jin's Tekken 7 standing 4 as i13, which it was in TTT2 as well. Not i11. I know they must have copypasted some of the frame data from TTT2, but I would like to see some hard evidence supporting the claim that it indeed is i11.
yes its 13, i messed up, still fast as fuck tho.

Jin its not that dank.
Pretty good points, also this was his major issue in TTT2 and lack of launching really didn't help much, but here is a few things you're left out, which doesn't make this weakness as much as relevant, its still there for sure, but not as strong as it was before.

If this was that jin that had to poke all the way up to tickle ppl do try stuff i would completely agree, this jin is very different, you can't just maul pokes on him expecting to hit, even on range 0, he also can now sidestep as easier as the next best character in the game, and he has a safe tracking mid that launches on CH from b1.

Lets not also forget that UF2 is now a get off me move, sure it lost the crumple state but the effect of avoiding close quarters combat game is still there since that pushes it off him and adds him a 50-50 on wakeup instantly.

Point is, Jin is no longer that TTT2 character who pokes and get poked up close to the point of him finding himself hopeless, he is a real mishima now, and as any real mishima, his movement rewards him with stuff ppl weren't used to when facing against him, so those things will always have to be accounted on.

U try to duck jin you face risks, you try to sidestep to counter you face risks as well even up close, you try to run the hammer on him, well lets hope your movement and moves range measures are way better than the player controlling him, the reward he gets for mistakes like these now are just as good as him getting a EWHF whiff punish, if anyone is willing to take those risks as much as he did back in TTT2 will meet a whole new jin.

besides, sidestep block mechanic from TTT2 no longer exists in T7, you make a read and avoid that's it, but if a homing its coming, then its coming, what they did was increasing the sidestep distance so it avoids even eletrics much easier now on each side.




And about the connect, that really will suck, but i have my hopes up, my country had a satellite launch project going and this year its supposed to be a test run, if this work, our backbone will stop carrying all the heavy lifting and internet should be a lot better for everyone, so i hope this lets me play you guys without too many lagspikes
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Also, Jin's standing 2 is 8f startup not 10, its a unique normal and possibly the fastest in the game, pretty sure this is unchanged since it could punish i9s

http://rbnorway.org/jin-t7-frames/
A few things have not correct numbers, bf23 is now -9 or so, definitely stupid safe with no zen now.
 
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Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
I do still think Jin is dank. If his df1 tracked or if he had access to instant generic d4 he would just have no weaknesses what so ever and he would be totally overpowered.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Jin's weakness is range 0 counterpoking (Not offensive poking, he can pile on a lot of pokes and put on good pressure).
Jin is no longer that TTT2 character who pokes and get poked up close to the point of him finding himself hopeless, he is a real mishima now, and as any real mishima, his movement rewards him with stuff ppl weren't used to when facing against him, so those things will always have to be accounted on.
Yea I can second this. I don't play Jin other than messing around, but like yall probably know already one of my long time friends and Tekken training partner has been maining King and Jin since Tekken 4. When we played those months during the location tests he basically said that Jin used to be like paragraph A) but now is like paragraph B) lol. He said he could still use a little more up close but is fine now (he is an epic downplayer so that probably means he needs nothing extra). Also I noticed some of the stuff I used to get away with using Bryan in the MU wasn't as cheap against Jin as it used to be.

Speaking of execution stuff I have never ever been able to do Bryan's taunt-jet uppercut or taunt-b4. Taunt-f2,1,4 comes easily though. I think you need a lagless monitor to even practice and attempt the jet upper and b4.
Whenever I can land the taunt-jet upper in a match, an evil Heihachi smirk comes across my face. I agree taunt into F214 is the best to use for consistency purposes, and sometimes empty taunt cancel fake outs into pressure are the best ways I can use it.

I heard King and Heihachi have the highest damage on the multiple floor break stage and rise to top tier when playing on it. I forgot which top player said it but I think it was Knee.