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Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
(This is long and rambling and has absolutely no value of any sort. Its just me thinking out loud and ordering my thoughts. Anyone who's read this thread much will see me repeat myself here.. I am simply using this as a sounding board. Warning you ahead of time - if you find me obnoxious, this will push you over the edge and you should probably skip it entirely)


Just keep coming back to Dragunov. He does everything I want him to do, and feels fast and fluid. But..

What I want in a Tekken character:

Versatility. Want to be able to bang up close, or play back some and play defensively. Don't like to be forced to occupy any particular range to be be effective. Def want someone with some reach.

Safety. I don't like being forced to heavily commit when I can help it.

Good buttons in general. Strong pokes and good mids. Don't like a heavy reliance on long, string-y offense.

Low to medium execution and low to medium game plan. Don't mind to work at things, but I don't like super difficult characters in any game. I struggle badly with execution and it's just not worth it for me.

Decently mobile and smooth. I know this is a weird one.. but take, Jack for instance. He's a big ass, slow, clunky character..he meets most of my criteria, but I don't find him pleasant to play because of how he "feels"

That's mostly it.. points for having a strong throw game and at least one "power" low. Additional points for the character having moves that look something approaching either realistic, or at least cool. Take Dragunov's 312 string as an example of something that looks ridiculous. As well as Kazumi's.. 3,2? The knee into weird punch that splats you in her face. Points also for character being male and/or reasonable to look at..not a deal breaker, just a general preference. If Bob didn't look like...Bob, I'd probably main him and call it a day - though I find his combos kinda awkward honestly.

You may notice I dont mention punishment anywhere.. I am not good enough at this game to see the roll punishment plays in my own games yet. Obviously its hugely important, and a strong i10 punisher is incredibly nice to have, but since I dont know frame data and punish scenario's well across the board, I cant say how important it is to me personally. Having a strong punish game is excellent, but its not a deal breaker for me.. though good i10 is an excellent selling point.

So, characters who I feel meet my general criteria enough to be considered:

Paul
Dragunov
Steve - sort of.
Bob
Noctis? - not sure yet.
Feng
Kazumi
Shaheen
Katarina
DJin*
Leo
Miguel
Bryan

Note, there are some characters that check off my list well, but arent included here because I just dont care for them much for one reason or another. Claudio and Lars are good examples of this.

*Electrics arent easy, but I dont consider his base execution beyond me *if* I chose to learn him. Wavedashing and electrics are both reasonably within my abilities if I made the decision to push forward with him. Not saying he's easy at all, just that I *think* I could play him from an execution stand point if I decided to make the commitment.

OK.. So, Shaheen is out of the running. I just dont find him super fun. Dunno why. Just didnt click with him. I have more matches on him that anyone else actually. Didnt click with Leo (second most played character) either and I dont know why. Just didnt. Miguel same story. Feng I like a lot, but again, he felt a little off and awkward and I didnt immediately take to him. Partly I think because some of his moves look so damn stupid. Kazumi feels weird and awkward to me for some reason. Kat is kinda amazing and Ive played her about third most of anyone.. but she just looks awkward and weird in motion and I dont care for it much. More games and time with these characters may fix this, but it may not. Id like to try to find someone I mesh well with from the outset.

That leaves Paul, Drag, DJin, Bryan, Bob and Noctis.. and kinda Steve.

Dragunov I have some sets with now and really, I like almost everything about him. Why not just default to him and call it a day? Well, its stupid, but I feel like he wont make me a better player and I do kinda worry about longevity. Drag's primary gameplan is to abuse the shit out of a small handful of moves and from what Ive read, been told and seen for myself, the way Im playing him now is exactly how I'll play him in 6months. I'll just be more precise and have more MU knowledge.. That's not to say anyone can sit down and be BESTDRAGNA or something, but just that his gameplan is SO linear and straight forward there is little serious depth to it. Its so powerful though that that is fine. That's one of the big criticisms of facing the character is that every Drag plays like every other Drag. Im fine with that on the surface.. Im not going to revolutionize any character in any special way, but the idea of growing into a character and growing with that character over time is nice. The idea that I'll just be doing the exact same shit in a year that I am today, makes me think I'll burn out on Dragunov relatively quickly. However - as of now, he's my #1 choice and does everything I want a character to do.

Paul. I didnt give Paul a fair run.. I went into a set vs a much more experienced player, having no practiced or touched Paul in any real way, beyond maybe an hour of practice 6 weeks ago, and I got shit on obviously, but I didnt get to DO anything. So I made a hasty call to knock him off my list, and I shouldnt have done. I was salty and frustrated. Paul has a simple gameplan, but I feel like he has more going on that it seems on the surface. Need more matches.

Bryan is similar to Paul. Just havent given him a fair run. That said though, there are other characters I think I prefer a little more.. but thematically and aesthetically and in terms of how his moves LOOK, Bryan is one of my favs in the game.

DJin.. He's great, but comes with the added requirement of having to learn wavedashing and electrics. I need some sets on him.. because if I were to choose him, its a big commitment.

Bob. Need matches. If Bob didnt look like Bob looks, he'd probably be my #1 choice honestly. Though I find his combo routes kinda awkward and weird and he seems to have a lot of combos to keep track of, depending on the launcher. He also hits softly, which is another odd observation.. but like, some characters have these powerful sound effects and particle effects and all this with a lot of their moves, but Bob doesnt have that same impact built in. Dumb. Just an observation.

Steve. My fav character in the game pretty much. He's only here because I keep TRYING to play him, and am continually disappointed. He's super super strong, but I find him tedious. I just dont like having to flit between stances and shit to get things done. In theory hes everything I want. In practice I get super frustrated and annoyed playing him, lol.

Noctis. We dunno yet. The boy is kinda kewwwwl though. His range his what I like, and I find his combos smooth as butter and super satisfying.
I read both of your posts and I was going to say Kazumi because she definitely fits your criteria but you scratched that off.

The way you go about picking a main is almost what I used to do but I've learned a few things over the years and one major thing I've learned is what you said.

Picking a character to make you a better player. But it comes with also a big question.
Once your a better player in your eyes is that based off of your vast wins? Or your improved execution? Is it off of solid feedback from other players or maybe comparisons from top players?

This is why I choose to stick characters that fit the general fundimental formulas in most fighters so I can transfer from one character to the next character from one different game to another. It's easier that way so has when like you when I can't pick a main I'll always have that 3 or 4 fundimentaly sound core group.

Characters like Kazumi who rely heavily on pokes and wiff punishing.

Kano who always played up close and has to use pressure and create openings by using block strings, grabs, chokes and unsafe moves to get big damage. He's been that way for 25 years now.

In injustice I naturally picked up Atrocitus because he reminded me of how I wanted a character to be with out the zoning being his go too if in trouble like almost every character in that game. Yet he still heavily relies on a basic fundimental flow chart I'm accustomed too.

Gouken, Ryu, Ken, Akuma and so on for zoning and conditioning.

So on & so forth. Fundimentaly sound core characters that basically transfer in some shape form or fashion to another even in a completely different game.

So... How are your fundamentals? If there good then Dragi, Bryan, King, Asuka, Geese, Feng, Leo and Paul are a good start.

Stick with Dragi.




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EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I read both of your posts and I was going to say Kazumi because she definitely fits your criteria but you scratched that off.

The way you go about picking a main is almost what I used to do but I've learned a few things over the years and one major thing I've learned is what you said.

Picking a character to make you a better player. But it comes with also a big question.
Once your a better player in your eyes is that based off of your vast wins? Or your improved execution? Is it off of solid feedback from other players or maybe comparisons from top players?

This is why I choose to stick characters that fit the general fundimental formulas in most fighters so I can transfer from one character to the next character from one different game to another. It's easier that way so has when like you when I can't pick a main I'll always have that 3 or 4 fundimentaly sound core group.

Characters like Kazumi who rely heavily on pokes and wiff punishing.

Kano who always played up close and has to use pressure and create openings by using block strings, grabs, chokes and unsafe moves to get big damage. He's been that way for 25 years now.

In injustice I naturally picked up Atrocitus because he reminded me of how I wanted a character to be with out the zoning being his go too if in trouble like almost every character in that game. Yet he still heavily relies on a basic fundimental flow chart I'm accustomed too.

Gouken, Ryu, Ken, Akuma and so on for zoning and conditioning.

So on & so forth. Fundimentaly sound core characters that basically transfer in some shape form or fashion to another even in a completely different game.

So... How are your fundamentals? If there good then Dragi, Bryan, King, Asuka, Geese, Feng, Leo and Paul are a good start.

Stick with Dragi.




Sent from my Silicon Valley North Waterloo using Test Your Might mobile app

Probably sticking with Drag. Been reading and watching stuff for the last couple hours and it really falls to Him, or Noctis or Paul. Paul, for my purposes, is very similar to Dragunov - and I want to see which is 'better'

I do want to get some games in with Paul and Noctis though to be 100%. I really like Noctis, but I dont think he's who I want to learn the game with - but I do want to try him some.

Both characters have strong fundamental gameplans.. and while its almost certainly going to be Dragunov, if I dont take the time to eliminate the last couple competitors, it'll eat away at me.

So! Anyone want to help me with this later this afternoon? I need to get a little lab time in with Paul beforehand, just so I have some conception WTF I'm about - otherwise Im doing no good playing him. Ideally, we'd play a couple hours and whoever Im playing wont go easy on me, but wont try to win Evo either.. since Im trying to get a feel for the characters a little bit, a tad bit of breathing room would be appreciated. Then i make my decision and that's it. Go ham and eggs on me. About 3hrs from now? Or if anyone wants to set something up for later this evening/whatever just give me a time and I'll make it work.

NA - Central/East Coast (Kentucky). PC and PS4.


Quick edit: Spent some time with Paul in training mode and with some frame data up for reference. Actually really excited to try him out a little more thoroughly today. Running through his moves and such and he has some really nice shit that I just didnt know was as clean as it was (looks, frame data, damage, etc) js ff2:1 for instance. Holy shit.
 
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EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
-9 you should be able to get a mix but sometimes the pushback makes you whiff and he has a stupid whiff punisher so its kinda dangerous. Ultimately they don't get to hit buttons after you block a raw warp

Yep, and due to the way he rolls afterward, even SSing isnt reliable.. He often rolls away and the angle and camera get kinda screwed up, making it difficult to accomplish anything at all.

F2 is batshit. I feel like one of the deciding factors on dealing with Noctis (and playing him well) is going to be really learning how to avoid - and apply - F2.. You have a practically anywhere-on-the-screen good damage whiff punisher into pressure that's totally safe. The scary-fast reaction crowd is going to make this move a nightmare to deal with.. You'll have to move forward SO carefully, and god help your soul if you do anything - ANYTHING - that whiffs lol

Im awake.. Anyone trying to play? I need to get these Noctis and Paul games in and decide. I got a migraine earlier and laid down.
 
Yep, and due to the way he rolls afterward, even SSing isnt reliable.. He often rolls away and the angle and camera get kinda screwed up, making it difficult to accomplish anything at all.

F2 is batshit. I feel like one of the deciding factors on dealing with Noctis (and playing him well) is going to be really learning how to avoid - and apply - F2.. You have a practically anywhere-on-the-screen good damage whiff punisher into pressure that's totally safe. The scary-fast reaction crowd is going to make this move a nightmare to deal with.. You'll have to move forward SO carefully, and god help your soul if you do anything - ANYTHING - that whiffs lol

Im awake.. Anyone trying to play? I need to get these Noctis and Paul games in and decide. I got a migraine earlier and laid down.
On ps4 if your down. I agree, noctis might be a little better than we think. If anything his flowchart is really simple but strong and he's a beginner skill level which makes him more consistent. He might not be viable at a high level though, you never know.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
On ps4 if your down. I agree, noctis might be a little better than we think. If anything his flowchart is really simple but strong and he's a beginner skill level which makes him more consistent. He might not be viable at a high level though, you never know.
K gonna try to get on.. soon as I posted, one of my cats started acting really bizarre, so something wrong I need to figure ulout real quick
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
@Flamelurkr I appreciate it man. He's doing ok now, but we dont know what happened. He's still acting a little 'off'.. Just gotta wait and see what happens.

Well, got some time to get this Paul and Noctis stuff in if anyone wants to play? PC or PS4 - NA - East Coast/Central
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Congrats! Dragi mains are scum but your good guy so I'm glad you finally found a main.

Now if you mained devil Jin well that's a different story.

Sent from my Silicon Valley North Waterloo using Test Your Might mobile app

We are scumbags for sure.. but Im fine with it. Its weird though, 'errybody scared of Drag when characters like Hwo have like 100+moves. Shit, all we Drag mains have is one throw, d2 and wr2. Seriously. Entire movelist right there. Look it up. Fact.
 
I have to say Geese's Raging storm on hitbox was such a mindf**k I'm glad I finally figured it out. I just need to get comfortable with the toolkit and learn to make hard reads and go for that party hype!
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Dragunov is really really fun. I wish he had a good i10 punish. He's already fucking op, I don't mean he needs it or anything, it's just the one tool he's missing from my personal box of preferences. Out of everything Djin has (as an example) aside from landing electrics, his i10 punish is the most satisfying thing about him, lol.

I'm still liquid garbage, but I feel like Ive leveled up a little just in the last couple days, after finally settling with Drag and trying to learn from the perspective of ONE damn character. Nothing special, just getting settled down, not missing confirms, not dropping as often. Just feel like I have a solid foundation. I mean, Drag is arguably the best character in the game, so, I mean.. it's hard to have a more solid foundation than that. Not execution heavy at all.. iwr2 being his only real 'thing' and Im working on those. I have them down decently well from point blank now - but I have to work on my speed. I can do them, but they're 'late' in the dash animation and that costs me a few frames.

Landing wr2 isnt as satisfying as Deathfist or an electric, but it's still damn satisfying, and turning a fast, mid, hugely advancing, +ob move into 70+ damage on CH is hilarious and a KD and good damage on regular hit is amazing too, especially since Drag's stomp is so damn threatening. You HAVE to react on the ground with him, waiting is so dangerous.

Interestingly, Drag - to me - looks boring AF when played at the highest level.. They boil his kit down to this ultra tiny little set of 'perfect' moves and those are all you ever see used. Obviously that's enormously powerful if you're at that level, but for the rest of us, it's stifling and a little boring, but when you dig into his movelist though, dude has an arsenal of nice shit with some kinda cool throw cancel stuff (even if some of it is suspect as fuck).

This is stupid, but so funny, I felt like I needed to share. I played a match earlier vs another very new player who was using Miguel. Got a knockdown at the wall, and he'd been SUPER busy every time I had him at the wall previously, so I went with my 1+2.. and armored his buttons. Down. 1+2.. 1+2.. 1+2.. 1+2.. 1+2.. 1+2. Dead. It kept working.. lol. My armor at the wall seems to hit grounded from certain angles. So, next round, same situation, KD at the wall. 1+2.. this time he delays and I whiff the next 1+2, he gets up safely but he doesnt punish the whiff. So, I mean.. 1+2. He delays.. So I stomp. stomp. stomp. he gets up.. so.. 1+2. stomp. Dead. He quit =[
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
I hit up akihabara yesterday and played some sets at hey arcade. Was awsome. Won some and lost some. Man you can smoke in there so it was very smokey.

The fam has had enough of arcades so ill hit up the namco arcade one night when they want to stay in.

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NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
Also went to super potato which was awsome. Everything retro over 3 floors. Top floor is a small retro arcade but there was nothing there that you couldnt find at hey. Everything from atati to ps2.

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Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Had fun playing a set against a very strong Steve player. Maybe I lost, but I learned tons of MU XP as Eddy. Eddy will surely have a hard time against him, but you'll need two weapons against him. Patience and a RLX setup. I'll have to find a secondary main to deal against Eddy's hard matches.

And I'll need to start working on the blockstrings to find fast moves to mix them up and try opening my opponents.