Tekken 7 General Discussion Thread - OP Updated With All Tekken Info

[EntropicByDesign]

When people say bad in tekken it's not like vanilla black Adam compared to swamp thing it's more like cat woman compared to redhood or something.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I worded it poorly. I guess I should have said more like, What weaknesses does she have that make her considered a somewhat weaker character?

My understanding of Tekken is super basic but it's decent enough to spot strengths usually. I can look at a move or series of moves and MOSTLY (some stuff has weird / hidden strengths or utility I don't get of course) say "yeah ok that's decent/good/holy crap" and I can see strengths and such, but it's hard for me to fully understand weakness.

But that leads me back to one of the reasons I find Tekken so damn interesting, the games balance is in a class by itself. Even at the absolute top ranks, I watched the Jong guy, the Chloe player, gun down vs JDCR on Drag.. best player in the world probably on arguably the best/one of the best characters in the game.. and Chloe took him to the absolute limit.

So in that vein I'm not looking for a strong character tier wise or anything, but am often curious as to what makes a character considered weaker than another character. It also doesn't help that a lot of Tekken characters seem to be rated differently based on tournament play vs long set play, that changing up the list here and there lol.

 

[Tanno]

Yeah, I see what you mean. I worded it poorly. I guess I should have said more like, What weaknesses does she have that make her considered a somewhat weaker character?

My understanding of Tekken is super basic but it's decent enough to spot strengths usually. I can look at a move or series of moves and MOSTLY (some stuff has weird / hidden strengths or utility I don't get of course) say "yeah ok that's decent/good/holy crap" and I can see strengths and such, but it's hard for me to fully understand weakness.

But that leads me back to one of the reasons I find Tekken so damn interesting, the games balance is in a class by itself. Even at the absolute top ranks, I watched the Jong guy, the Chloe player, gun down vs JDCR on Drag.. best player in the world probably on arguably the best/one of the best characters in the game.. and Chloe took him to the absolute limit.

So in that vein I'm not looking for a strong character tier wise or anything, but am often curious as to what makes a character considered weaker than another character. It also doesn't help that a lot of Tekken characters seem to be rated differently based on tournament play vs long set play, that changing up the list here and there lol.

Everyone, except of the Mishimas and Kazuya, have different fighting real life style. You'll have to find a char that suits you. Yoshimitsu uses Kenjutsu, Hwoarang uses Tae-Kwon-Do, etc, etc. Just think of one fighting style countering the opponent fighting style.

If you need to win this game, you'll have to get used to hold your distance away from your opponent, and to counterattack by reaction and armored attacks (also known as punishing attacks). Some, like Eddy, are monsters with the 50/50. Some good at distance control. Some good at CQC. Everyone has gaps in all of their moves, except of the fast chars, like Katarina and Lee Chaolan. Everyone has a weak point.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Lol i dont need a description. Im not new. I know the mu and everything both char's do. And when i said b4, i meant his high homing mid, which is standing 4

Standing 4 is not mid lol, and that move has a lot of recovery, you must be a charge forward player, there is not many ppl that can get hit by ch4 unless you're in a hurry. And sorry if i don't believe you but your post actually confirms that you are, and if you're not, i think you have some nasty habits while playing tekken

In this case @Eddy, u wanted his b21 to work guaranteed after landing ch 4. Which imo doesn't need to happen. getting the d2 is enough. He has too many ways of juggling on both normal hit and ch.

Understand one thing, CH4 B21 already works against the majority of the cast either you like it or not its there, aside from a few females and weirdly some males, there is some characters where this works but its inconsistent as Hat trick using call back which is a mid but its whiffing on crouching characters, did you understand now?

Giving consistency won't make him broken, so if you don't want CH4 B21 buffed, don't touch CH4 ssl 2,4 which is actually working on ALL males right now and its much harder to do (couldn't even land one in match yet) but if you're going to take away a tool that should work on characters that its inconsistent, at least makes CH4 B21 work against everyone.

Its a matter of perspective, Jin is not broken, Jin is strong, but he is a fundamental character consistency will not give him free wins or autopilot moveset.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Kazuya has access to a delayed hop kick (uf, neutral , 4). In my opinion if you have low crushing launcher, regardless of the start up speed, you have decent enough low crushing. Jin having a hop kick is fine, considering his EWHF is inferior to EWGF.

Biggest weakness Jin has is that he doesn't have access to a generic i12 d4 and is compensated by having his i13 standing 4, which is a higher risk/higher reward option with slighly different uses, his df1 is also completely linear. This is a problem none of the other Mishimas have to deal with and makes Jin more susceptible to being either stepped or ducked in his face and consequently Jin has to use a higher pool of moves to deal with this and have better reads.

edit: Kazuya also has a generic i12 magic 4 where Hei and DVJ have semi-useless i16 4's. His i11 b1 also tracks to his left and has some counterpoking useability instead of being used just solely to punish.

 

[NaCl man]

With all due respect isreal this sounds like a you problem more than a game issue. Tekken is a visious beast. As a kaz pkayer there are characters i have issues with. In saying that its not the game its me(and ps4 lol) but as much as jin is a pain in the ass there are a good amount of characters who are rule breakers above jin. Imo he is good where he is.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

T7 and SC6
Namco is takin over

 

[NaCl man]

Everyone, except of the Mishimas and Kazuya

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Lucky Chloe is kinda interesting lol. Minus her terrible voice screaming numbers and saying her own name, and at one point spelling the god damn thing... But she has fun, ultra simple combos (df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 df1 something then the same something again) off all her launchers and that is, to me, a very very nice quality of life kind of thing. Just keep in mind if it's a crumple style launch to start with b4 and it's all gravy. Then add in the super simple poke/pressure game off her 1 jab and it's extensions, safe double mids and a mid/high that's like -2 or something. Amazing df1, b1 for whiff punishes, very serviceable lows with some odd little mind games here and there. Some very nice, basic tracking style moved to discourage side stepping (which it SEEMS to my uneducated eye is a problem for her potentially). Not sure if/what she has that gives her any + frames on block though.

I've only ever heard she's this weird gimmicky character that cheeses wins and if you can't cheese you can't generally win, but she looks to have a very solid and understandable base.

Shrug. I've almost made it through my list.

 

[JJvercetti]

Looks like an input lag patch is coming Dec 14th for PS4
https://clips.twitch.tv/TrappedCuteMage4Head

 

[Israel]

I meant high..another typo. Im aware he can get his b21 off some char's. Its good when he misses it.

And sorry if i don't believe you but your post actually confirms that you are

Wanna play?

Never said he was broke, however..he is too strong. Better than kaz in this game. He's #6 on the list to be precise imo. And i dont have kaz in the top 5

 

[Eddy Wang]

I meant high..another typo. Im aware he can get his b21 off some char's. Its good when he misses it.

Wanna play?

Never said he was broke, however..he is too strong. Better than kaz in this game. He's #6 on the list to be precise imo. And i dont have kaz in the top 5

Jin is good, he is top 10 in my list, i don't think he is top 5 tho.
How is it good when it misses? that's just salt bro, i as a Jin main don't think that's good when he misses it.

 

[Eddy Wang]

And even if i wanted to play against you, how the hell i'm i supposed to do that with the shitty online i have, it wouldn't even prove anything, pretty sure it would be fun tho.

 

[ShotgunInsanity]

Does anybody know good Bob players to watch and any guides/resources?

 

[buyacushun]

Finally made some time to get back into Tekken and I got hit with why I love the game. Hopped into training mode to mess around with some combos and realized setups and certain situations and buttons I wasn't utilizing like using Katarina's u/b+4 for guaranteed damage at the wall. There's just always something to learn and practice. I still need to get back to my actual main too.

@NaCl man - I typically like a mixed play style, I like to be able to play defensively and slow things down, keep people out or kind of "at bay" then when I feel like I have an opening, or land something or whatever, go in and run my offense, using the momentum to pressure.. but I do tend to favor offense over defense. I like my ranged tools to slow things down, but not to zone out, so much as find a way in and if I start to get overwhelmed, kind of back up and reset the situation. I usually favor mobility and speed as well. Rarely a fanb of slow/heavy characters. I tend to shy away from characters with high execution curves. Learning curves are fine, but technical execution is a weak point and I just dont like characters that require it.

I usually like characters that get good mileage out of pokes and such, but still have a decent combo game. Hybrid characters are *usually* who I end up enjoying the most in games. In SFV I really enjoyed playing Akuma and Karin (Karin isnt super Hybrid, but she does play a keep-away/space controlled neutral until she gets rolling on offense). In Inj2 I main Beetle with a side of Hellboy - but enjoy several characters there, WoWo being a particular favorite. In SFIV I mained Decapre, but played a reasonably decent Ryu and Seth and enjoyed - but was utterly terrible at - Gen.

Hopefully the more knowledgeable players chime in, but doesn't this description fit Miguel? Good pokes, easy offense, Good damage, straightforward. I don't know if you tried him but I would look into him.

I tried LC and I looked her but she felt too gimmicky for me to play. I feel at my current level she's just too limiting. There's too many things you have to "get right" to succeed with her. But she does have great damage and some good pokes. I've been thinking about revisiting her.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Finally made some time to get back into Tekken and I got hit with why I love the game. Hopped into training mode to mess around with some combos and realized setups and certain situations and buttons I wasn't utilizing like using Katarina's u/b+4 for guaranteed damage at the wall. There's just always something to learn and practice. I still need to get back to my actual main too.


Hopefully the more knowledgeable players chime in, but doesn't this description fit Miguel? Good pokes, easy offense, Good damage, straightforward. I don't know if you tried him but I would look into him.

I tried LC and I looked her but she felt too gimmicky for me to play. I feel at my current level she's just too limiting. There's too many things you have to "get right" to succeed with her. But she does have great damage and some good pokes. I've been thinking about revisiting her.

I have Miguel on my short list lol.

My plan is to spend a day or two more hunting, make a list of 5~ characters, then play them all in a number of real matches and see who I like the most in actual play.

Though I think I'll have a Gigas no matter what. He's amazing with that 10f punish and his buttons. REALLY like him, but don't don't necessarily want to play only him.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Bought Eliza and Geese. No intention to play Eliza, I just buy DLC because for some reason I cant not own all the characters.. Something about it just bothers me.

Geese though................ Is interesting. Good movement. He seems to have a nice poke game with small conversions here and there, then of course big damage with meter. He's non-standard obviously, so learning to play him wont directly carry over in the way other character knowledge would, but.. Shrug. Gonna lab him tomorrow (430am atm lol) and set my notes up - I literally have over 35 pages of notes right now for T7 - then see how I like his combos.. That's becoming a kind of deal breaker for me, how much fun I find a characters combos. Its not about difficulty, but just how enjoyable they are to do.. Like, Leo for instance was the character I really planned to play back when I first got the game, and she's considered one of the absolute best characters in the game.. I love her poke and neutral game, B1,4 is + 65,000 OB, she has a really direct moveset that gets deeper and deeper when you start messing with her evasive stand stuff, etc etc.. but her combos are god awfully awkward and unpleasant to perform - and that alone makes me not like her.. Where-as Josie is a great character, but nothing makes her stand out to me over others EXCEPT her combos, they are really fun, fluid and intuitive. Devil Jin is another character I really like, but dont like his combos much. Shrug.

And I know you all are getting tired of me pointlessly posting these walls of text that effectively say nothing what-so-ever.. but Im kinda using them as sounding board to order my thoughts. I tend to get impatient, rush into choosing a main, then not like/have doubts about that main, and the cycle starts up. So Im trying to just really take my time, explore the cast in at least some detail, and try to make a slow, researched and thorough decision.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Random note. I can EWGF decently well from the right side, though my KBDCs from that side are weak.. and I can KBDC decently well from the left side, though my EWGFs are weak.

My hands get tired, but when Im fresh and after a small warmup I can usually do 7-8/10 actual EWGFs on the right side and about half that on the left. I get the incorrect version every time I miss the actual ewgf, though in real matches and such I know its a lot damn harder.

I really like DJin, but the technical execution is just so friggin high, having to cancel CDs, wavedash, on top of frame perfect electrics and the normal every day KBDC and all that jazz. Meh.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Random note. I can EWGF decently well from the right side, though my KBDCs from that side are weak.. and I can KBDC decently well from the left side, though my EWGFs are weak.

My hands get tired, but when Im fresh and after a small warmup I can usually do 7-8/10 actual EWGFs on the right side and about half that on the left. I get the incorrect version every time I miss the actual ewgf, though in real matches and such I know its a lot damn harder.

I really like DJin, but the technical execution is just so friggin high, having to cancel CDs, wavedash, on top of frame perfect electrics and the normal every day KBDC and all that jazz. Meh.

pick the side you're bad at moving which is also the side you will have difficult doing electrics and start playing from that side exclusively.

After a month and a few weeks this will wear off.

 

[Tanno]

Random note. I can EWGF decently well from the right side, though my KBDCs from that side are weak.. and I can KBDC decently well from the left side, though my EWGFs are weak.

My hands get tired, but when Im fresh and after a small warmup I can usually do 7-8/10 actual EWGFs on the right side and about half that on the left. I get the incorrect version every time I miss the actual ewgf, though in real matches and such I know its a lot damn harder.

I really like DJin, but the technical execution is just so friggin high, having to cancel CDs, wavedash, on top of frame perfect electrics and the normal every day KBDC and all that jazz. Meh.

Better go in training and train AF with your bad sides. After a week or so you'll get used to it in no time. It's a matter of muscle memory.

BTW, can you tell me how to do the KBDC? I'm a bit bad at this.

 

[ShotgunInsanity]

Random note. I can EWGF decently well from the right side, though my KBDCs from that side are weak.. and I can KBDC decently well from the left side, though my EWGFs are weak.

My hands get tired, but when Im fresh and after a small warmup I can usually do 7-8/10 actual EWGFs on the right side and about half that on the left. I get the incorrect version every time I miss the actual ewgf, though in real matches and such I know its a lot damn harder.

I really like DJin, but the technical execution is just so friggin high, having to cancel CDs, wavedash, on top of frame perfect electrics and the normal every day KBDC and all that jazz. Meh.

Yeah I feel you my p1 bdc is good but on p2 it's pretty slow and I haven't optimized it so that I'm holding back throughout most of the backdash. I can do backsway method on p1 very well but not on p2, just yesterday I started to really practice it so hopefully I can haveit as good on p1 side in a few weeks.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

pick the side you're bad at moving which is also the side you will have difficult doing electrics and start playing from that side exclusively.

After a month and a few weeks this will wear off.

That's the funny thing, the side I'm bad with electrics is the side I'm good with movement and the side I'm good with movement I'm bad with electrics lol.

But yeah, playing exclusively from my bad movement side for now.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Better go in training and train AF with your bad sides. After a week or so you'll get used to it in no time. It's a matter of muscle memory.

BTW, can you tell me how to do the KBDC? I'm a bit bad at this.

The method I use - I play pad - is to hit back back to initiate the backdash, then downback back, downback back, downback back, etc,

So it looks like:

B B DB B DB B DB B DB B and so on.

When you cancel a backdash with DB the button system will use the down portion to cancel and the back portion to buffer towards another backdash, so when you hit back again right after it should initiate the next backdash, which is then canceled with the next DB and so on.

I've only been practicing it for a few days and it's coming along well. For me it was helpful to just try to motion slowly at first just trying to keep my inputs clean, then I'd just try to backdash and cancel into another backdash once, then repeat. And so on. If I felt like I was "off" and doing badly, I'd stop. Grinding is great but if you're grinding badly youre just committing bad timing and dirty inputs to muscle memory. I practice maybe 30m a day, broken into 15m sessions. Your biggest gains will typically come after you sleep, due to how the body learns this sort of thing - seriously, look up the roll sleep plays in practice and skill development, it's extremely relevant to us as FG players.

And btw, I don't mean to sound preachy or know-it-all on a subject I'm new at and still working on myself, but I have fairly weak natural execution so I've spent most of my FG career learning.. well, how to learn and how to find ways to maximize my time and effort with this stuff, and though super technical execution is something I'll never be strong with, I feel like I usually learn the hard stuff well ahead of the curve now.

There is definitely a rhythm to it and I'm not super fast yet, or "good" at it but I feel like on the left side I'm more than strong enough to be effective in real matches and from the right side, its useable, but not good or reliable. I can't do either side indefinitely, like just sit there and rip 100 in a row, but I can get 5-7 pretty easily and that's way more than needed to backdash the fuck outa the way lol.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I'm so disgusted with myself right now... i dont know what the fuck happened between yesterday and today, but I literally sat and did electrics for 20m on the right side.. and I'm NOT KIDDING, I never did better than 2 in a row, and I bet I didnt hit 12 trhe entire 20m session. Call it.. 11, out of probably 200.

Swapped to left side and BAM = 3-5 in a row, miss one, 3-5 in a row, etc.

uugghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Im supposed to be taking Geese notes, but I went to practice my execution, and failed so miserably I made myself angry lol.

Like, I see what Im doing wrong, using Jin for this just because.. and when I do the input - f, d, df+2, my 2 is coming out after the df, not at the same time, causing me to get regular hookfist. Its just so weird that it feels like I cant correct the timing. If I try to press the button earlier I get either f2 or d2, or even though it felt super early, it still looks like its coming out too late. Sometimes my directionals are ugly too and it looks like - f, df, df, or f, d, df, f, or various combinations.

Of course Im doing something wrong. I think Im just 'off' so I stepped away for a bit. If I keep at it I'm just grinding bad timing into my muscle memory

 

[Tanno]

The method I use - I play pad - is to hit back back to initiate the backdash, then downback back, downback back, downback back, etc,

So it looks like:

B B DB B DB B DB B DB B and so on.

When you cancel a backdash with DB the button system will use the down portion to cancel and the back portion to buffer towards another backdash, so when you hit back again right after it should initiate the next backdash, which is then canceled with the next DB and so on.

I've only been practicing it for a few days and it's coming along well. For me it was helpful to just try to motion slowly at first just trying to keep my inputs clean, then I'd just try to backdash and cancel into another backdash once, then repeat. And so on. If I felt like I was "off" and doing badly, I'd stop. Grinding is great but if you're grinding badly youre just committing bad timing and dirty inputs to muscle memory. I practice maybe 30m a day, broken into 15m sessions. Your biggest gains will typically come after you sleep, due to how the body learns this sort of thing - seriously, look up the roll sleep plays in practice and skill development, it's extremely relevant to us as FG players.

And btw, I don't mean to sound preachy or know-it-all on a subject I'm new at and still working on myself, but I have fairly weak natural execution so I've spent most of my FG career learning.. well, how to learn and how to find ways to maximize my time and effort with this stuff, and though super technical execution is something I'll never be strong with, I feel like I usually learn the hard stuff well ahead of the curve now.

There is definitely a rhythm to it and I'm not super fast yet, or "good" at it but I feel like on the left side I'm more than strong enough to be effective in real matches and from the right side, its useable, but not good or reliable. I can't do either side indefinitely, like just sit there and rip 100 in a row, but I can get 5-7 pretty easily and that's way more than needed to backdash the fuck outa the way lol.

Interesting.

Bear in mind that some chars do use this input you said, however, some use the D, DB, B as a loop after BB.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Interesting.

Bear in mind that some chars do use this input you said, however, some use the D, DB, B as a loop after BB.

Yeah, I use the method I explained because originally I was going to play Bryan and he has his qcb crouch dash, so the back qcb method wouldn't work with him. Though you have to be super clean on the inputs to make sure you still don't get the back sway if the character has it.. bit this method works with every character I'm pretty sure.