General/Other - Takeda Takeda Community: Possible Suggested Improvements

[jokey77]

@aieches :

I think there are some things about Takeda that you don't understand. thats ok as getting into the character took me quite a while too.

you say that njp wreck you? - the answer is easy! just use instant airteleport and hitconfirm into a full combo. It may seem difficult at first, but with some practise you might be able to pull it off every now and then. I can do it pretty consistantly!

Anything else you have problem with? I am sure, I can help out! takeda has an answer for everything!

Or are NJP his only weakness you think? We can discuss these further!

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

All Takeda needs is for f12 2+4 to be a true block string, make his useless strings and normals more useful, and make the teleport cancel like 2 or 3 frames faster which would improve shirai ryu and keep the rest unchanged. Then Takeda can properly bait armored moves and decide to go into kunai when they don't armor. F12 2+4 also needs to hit opponents from behind. Takeda obviously swings back but when you try to hit someone from behind, it just goes right through them. So that needs to be fixed too. Fist Furry (ex) should consistently have armor and lower the whiff recovery and startup a bit, maybe by 8 frames. Lasher's halfscreen down poke should be easier to execute so that you don't get a df1 almost everytime you attempt to do it. Ronin is fine aside from db1 not always being -4.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

All Takeda needs is for f12 2+4 to be a true block string, make his useless strings and normals more useful, and make the teleport cancel like 2 or 3 frames faster which would improve shirai ryu and keep the rest unchanged. Then Takeda can properly bait armored moves and decide to go into kunai when they don't armor. F12 2+4 also needs to hit opponents from behind. Takeda obviously swings back but when you try to hit someone from behind, it just goes right through them. So that needs to be fixed too. Fist Furry (ex) should consistently have armor and lower the whiff recovery and startup a bit, maybe by 8 frames. Lasher's halfscreen down poke should be easier to execute so that you don't get a df1 almost everytime you attempt to do it. Ronin is fine aside from db1 not always being -4.

Yes.

 

[jokey77]

F12 2+4 also needs to hit opponents from behind. Takeda obviously swings back but when you try to hit someone from behind, it just goes right through them. So that needs to be fixed too.

So you complain about not getting hit from behind properly. Having bad experience with "a kunai" and a "whip" just going right through you without making proper contact? Yes, I guess, some people might consider this a serious problem. What puff do you suggest to fix this?

 

[aieches]

@aieches :

I think there are some things about Takeda that you don't understand. thats ok as getting into the character took me quite a while too.

you say that njp wreck you? - the answer is easy! just use instant airteleport and hitconfirm into a full combo. It may seem difficult at first, but with some practise you might be able to pull it off every now and then. I can do it pretty consistantly!

Anything else you have problem with? I am sure, I can help out! takeda has an answer for everything!

Or are NJP his only weakness you think? We can discuss these further!

its not that .. trust me i pretty much understand takeda as much as the community itself has progressed with him. I dont think you knew where i was coming from with my last post .

i was talking about the post in which Stealthy posted the video(s) of when njp whiffs completely- even though the opponent is point blank withing range and the whips just blew past.. what i was saying is that i dont expect for these to land all the time, but in these videos there should have been no reason why this jump through was possible. its something i feel should be adjusted IMO.

i feel that this was the right read made by Stealthy and because of the wonky hitboxes/active frames he got punished for it. Had Steathly made this move with majority of the other cast - it would have been the correct timing and call so, when people say Takedas NJPs range it too far or its OP etc.. i would personally just disagree. i feel its not as good as most would say. if this was to be adjusted i would be completely fine with nerfing the range of his NJP if it gave a smaller gap to be jumped through.

about the other cast's NJPs- i have no problems with them directly they dont wreck me hahaha. ...i was more using them as to state examples in range. - i was starting people say takeda has soo much range on his NJP but in a sense i beleive this is half true. The range might be there visually, but the active frames and hitbox to going along side it are not in contrast to those say like Kitana or Quanchis, whos NJP have crazy range and active frames.. People claim takedas NJP is way better than it is and overlook the sizable gaps is has- even when making the correct read. thats all i meant by my previous post


and technically almost all fighters has an answer for everything... but that does not make takeda "complete package" - i dont think there is a complete package cause then you would have a character who is without a doubt OP.. only once that came close was pre-nerf Tonya ( and that was also only even at high level)

yes there are plenty of things Takeda has that are SAFE & UNSAFE answers , otherwise nobody would/could be playing him as its already an up hill battle. ... and right now prob the only thing that we have technically ZERO answer for besides 100% risk/reward is Lui Kangs cancels stings. But this does not make him the "complete package"

 

[LucaTheRipper]

@aieches :

I think there are some things about Takeda that you don't understand. thats ok as getting into the character took me quite a while too.

you say that njp wreck you? - the answer is easy! just use instant airteleport and hitconfirm into a full combo. It may seem difficult at first, but with some practise you might be able to pull it off every now and then. I can do it pretty consistantly!

Anything else you have problem with? I am sure, I can help out! takeda has an answer for everything!

Or are NJP his only weakness you think? We can discuss these further!

Awesome, now repeat:

-Takeda is fine. Needs zero improvements.
-Predator and BoneShaper are honest.
-Liu Kang doesn't have pseudo-infinites and he's low tier.
-Tanya was overnerfed, she's unviable now.
-Goro is totally fine.
-Jacqui is fine, her hitbox is not bad.
-Balanced Kenshi is a great zoner.
-Johnny Cage is low tier.

 

[jokey77]

@aieches :
you have no problem with the other casts NJP while they have with yours. i guess, this proves my point from like three pages earlier. Takeda is fine, but his NJP should be nerfed!

 

[jokey77]

Awesome, now repeat:

-Takeda is fine. Needs zero improvements.
-Predator and BoneShaper are honest.
-Liu Kang doesn't have pseudo-infinites and he's low tier.
-Tanya was overnerfed, she's unviable now.
-Goro is totally fine.
-Jacqui is fine, her hitbox is not bad.
-Balanced Kenshi is a great zoner.
-Johnny Cage is low tier.

???
... are you trying to troll me?

Appearently ppl in here arent willed to discuss different opinions. Enough for me! Good night @gross, cool Videos btw!

 

[LucaTheRipper]

???
... are you trying to troll me?

How do i troll the troll himself?????

 

[aieches]

@aieches :
you have no problem with the other casts NJP while they have with yours. i guess, this proves my point from like three pages earlier. Takeda is fine, but his NJP should be nerfed!

i really dont get why you are reading into the fact that i have or dont have problems with the other casts NJPs its not like i just just breeze through them , lol.. i get hit all the time with other cast NJP, but i dont have any issues as in i think they are OP/unfair or should be nerfed lol.. so i dont get what you are talkiing about it proves your point but if you are just needing to be correct the okay, yes you are correct and im am incorrect in this conversation on the internet about fictional characters., lol..

but really all joking aside... im only using them (other cast NJPs) as an example to give an idea on ranges vs hitboxes.. i have zero issuses with other peoples NJP from a fair/unfair POV..i just pointed out that takedas NJP game is def not as good as most think esp when face to face. i honestly dont see the connection when people say takedas is OP when the njp is easy to exploit.

edited for phone typing

 

[aieches]

???
... are you trying to troll me?

Appearently ppl in here arent willed to discuss different opinions.

im down to talk/debate about this whenever..i try to learn from anything but this is really how i feel about his NJP ..

 

[Kinetic Balding1]

So you complain about not getting hit from behind properly. Having bad experience with "a kunai" and a "whip" just going right through you without making proper contact? Yes, I guess, some people might consider this a serious problem. What puff do you suggest to fix this?

They buffed Lasher's df1 by giving it a hitbox from behind, just like how it looks and they need to do the same with f12 2+4 and f1 2+4.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Max just dropped some shit on his stream
"I was talking to some developers, I won't say who. They hate the 'Dhalsim' archetype. I've been told that they want him to be bad."
I'll be so fucking upset if this garbage is true.

 

[gross]

his f214 is a true blockstring, same as his 334
the only buffs he needs /in my opinion), is faster startup for his ex fist flurry aswell as faster startup for his b1 (in order to be able to anti air properly)
while we're at it, why not adjust his njp range and increase his teleport cancel advantage, right @jokey77 ?

F12+24 is not a true blockstring and 334 who the fuck is gonna use that for what?
I know more than anybody about the character and all he needs is that True Blockstring (make people block) that's why Kotal kahn in not that great because he doesn't have true blockstring now if you give KK true blockstrings he'd top 5 for sure.

 

[gross]

What strings??

112
F12+24
B21

 

[StealthyMuffin]

112
F12+24
B21

You're talking about Kunai jailing, right?

 

[st9rm]

F12+24 is not a true blockstring and 334 who the fuck is gonna use that for what?
I know more than anybody about the character and all he needs is that True Blockstring (make people block) that's why Kotal kahn in not that great because he doesn't have true blockstring now if you give KK true blockstrings he'd top 5 for sure.

f12 2+4 & f1 2+4 are not true blockstrings, f214 is a true blockstring and can be used for pressure, same as 334 since you can either go for 334 (overhead w/ hard knockdown) or 33 xx kunai (low)
if f12 2+4 was a true blockstring, you'd build a lot of meter but still have to commit to a kunai (which can be armored out of) , or a teleport cancel (which does not have too much cancel advantage)
if you just commit to the string itself, you're at - 22
you might know everything about the character, but i still don't agree with you
nrs need to buff his ex flurry startup and his b1 startup and he will be fine

 

[aieches]

Max just dropped some shit on his stream
"I was talking to some developers, I won't say who. They hate the 'Dhalsim' archetype. I've been told that they want him to be bad."
I'll be so fucking upset if this garbage is true.

That will be some BS. How did this come up in his stream conversation?

 

[StealthyMuffin]

That will be some BS. How did this come up in his stream conversation?

He started playing Goro and the inevitable tier placement discussion began.
"They had never made a character like Takeda, and they didn't know how to handle him."
I don't know if his stuff is archived, but I'm pretty sure it happened within the first 3-2 hours.

 

[aieches]

F12+24 is not a true blockstring and 334 who the fuck is gonna use that for what?
I know more than anybody about the character and all he needs is that True Blockstring (make people block) that's why Kotal kahn in not that great because he doesn't have true blockstring now if you give KK true blockstrings he'd top 5 for sure.

Man it's hard to listen to your logic or advice when you say things like I know more than anybody.. cause by that reasoning that makes me think that you do not want to listen to any other persons advice or suggestions. There's no way you can achive that being close-minded...


If you feel you know more than anybody then share the knowledge to disprove us. Show us why we don't need some of the things we have suggested educate us in what we are doing wrong so we can adjust and understand. Otherwise , you will blend in with people who seem like they just wanna say no... I'm not saying that's the case....but I mean for example, your views on 334. A lot of the high caliber takeda play I have seen, have used this in their arsenal and been successful. I have implemented it into my play more often in the ways st9rm has also expressed and I feel it's working rather well. But you say who the fuck uses this for what?

I would think that if a person who knows more than anybody would use everything in a characters arsenal.. why would I not want to be using this ?

 

[SnowboardRX]

Good to see a lot of discussion on Takeda but anyone who says that his NJP is OP or needs to be nerfed knows nothing about Takeda. Like was said earlier, VISUALLY it looks like it's OP but PRACTICALLY, it is not. He's somewhere in the top-middle of the cast when it comes to NJP. Erron, Kung Jin, Raiden and Quan Chi are a few that face to face beat out Takeda's NJP everytime. So don't tell me Takeda's NJP is OP. OP = BEST/UNBEATABLE and Takeda's NJP ≠ BEST/UNBEATABLE.

 

[SOULWARRIOR 71K]

I'm sorry that I'm not sorry but in my not so humble opinion, anyone calling for any kind of nerfs to Takeda should not be taken seriously henceforth.

1. NRS already nerfed his damage.
2. His mixups are slow as shit and can be armored straight through.
3. His armor is inconsistent.
4. Why the hell does shinnock get to mimick the ex version of the tornado kick? If they are going to keep this trash bag move in the game, I should be rewarded with a juggle based on how unsafe this move is (ie it should always juggle but ex should simply add armor).
5. It is incredibly stupid that his teleport is limited to one variation. Why didn't they do this to others with teleports?
6. Just generally unsafe, predictable, and slow.

I really don't know how anyone can consider him anything above low-mid or low tier. Who are we comparing him to in order to say he is "solid mid-tier"?

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Who are we comparing him to in order to say he is "solid mid-tier"?

I would also like to know. His damage nerf was actually a bug fix, btw.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Making F3 special cancellable (with the necessary adjustments to make that fair, such as adjusting the startup/recovery frames if need be) would honestly solve a lot of problems and automatically make Takeda much more of a threat. It would remove the need to play such a gimmicky style in the neutral game.

I'd be curious to see what effect that would have vs. making 100 fixes to minor annoyances.

 

[aieches]

4. Why the hell does shinnock get to mimick the ex version of the tornado kick? If they are going to keep this trash bag move in the game, I should be rewarded with a juggle based on how unsafe this move is (ie it should always juggle but ex should simply add armor).

one time in a vs match against a shinnok player, he mimic'd me and and then pulled this move.. actual words were " WTF is this bullshit" "Why would you even use this" .. then proceeded to talk about how it makes zero sense. " ima gonna do this move again and go make a hot pocket , ill be back before i land "
needless to say i was dying laughing .