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Swamp Thing Matchup Discussion Thread

JnTonioo

JnTonioo

Yurp
imo

Catwoman: 5-5 (but with our mids whiffing feels like 4-6)
Flash: 5-5
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn:4-6
Batman: 4-6
Red Hood: 4-6
Superman: 4-6
Joker: 4-6
Atrocitus: 5-5
Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7
Ivy: ( idk yet)
Starfire: 4-6
Super girl: 5-5
Green Arrow: 4-6 (maybe worse)
Dr. Fate: 4-6 (thought it could be 5-5 but bdon proved me wrong)
Blue Beetle: 4-6
Aquaman: 5-5
Firestorm: 4-6
Black Canary: 5-5 (or we win)
Darkseid: 4-6 (maybe 5-5 played this mu alot it could be even)
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Black Adam: 5-5
Captain Cold: 4-6
Robin: I think its even i could be wrong
Scarecrow: 5-5
Bane: (idk yet)
Brainiac: 5-5
 
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RNLDRGN

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
JnTonioo said:
imo

Catwoman: 5-5 (but with our mids whiffing feels like 4-6)
Flash: 5-5
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn:4-6
Batman: 4-6
Red Hood: 4-6
Superman: 4-6
Joker: 4-6
Atrocitus: 5-5
Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7
Ivy: ( idk yet)
Starfire: 4-6
Super girl: 5-5
Green Arrow: 4-6 (maybe worse)
Dr. Fate: 6-4 (thought it could be 5-5 but bdon proved me wrong)
Blue Beetle: 4-6
Aquaman: 5-5
Firestorm: 4-6
Black Canary: 5-5 (or we win)
Darkseid: 6-4 (maybe 5-5 played this mu alot it could be even)
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Black Adam: 5-5
Captain Cold: 4-6
Robin: I think its even i could be wrong
Scarecrow: 5-5
Bane: (idk yet)
Brainiac: 5-5
Click to expand...
I agree with most of this but find Fate to be hard if I don't get a hit early. I would also say Flash and Canary are 6-4 Swamp's favor--the only two MUs I think he wins.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
RNLDRGN said:
I agree with most of this but find Fate to be hard if I don't get a hit early. I would also say Flash and Canary are 6-4 Swamp's favor--the only two MUs I think he wins.
Click to expand...
Yea I agree with most of that list but I can't see Swamp Thing beating Darkseid. I think that MU is complete garbage. Also ive played the Canary MU more, I think it's even. It wouldn't be if she didn't have that absurd setplay. We don't handle pressure very well due to shit backdash and shit D1 so she kind of walks all over us up close.
 
RNLDRGN

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
CrazyFingers said:
Yea I agree with most of that list but I can't see Swamp Thing beating Darkseid. I think that MU is complete garbage. Also ive played the Canary MU more, I think it's even. It wouldn't be if she didn't have that absurd setplay. We don't handle pressure very well due to shit backdash and shit D1 so she kind of walks all over us up close.
Click to expand...
Agreed. If Canary is in ST favor it's not by much, but his trait is also godlike in that MU.

Darkseid is definitely 4-6 in his favor. Yes you can outfootsie him, but he can also do a pretty stellar job of running away.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
RNLDRGN said:
Agreed. If Canary is in ST favor it's not by much, but his trait is also godlike in that MU.

Darkseid is definitely 4-6 in his favor. Yes you can outfootsie him, but he can also do a pretty stellar job of running away.
Click to expand...
Yea we don't have any great way to deal with Teleport, like at all.
 
JnTonioo

JnTonioo

Yurp
CrazyFingers said:
Yea I agree with most of that list but I can't see Swamp Thing beating Darkseid. I think that MU is complete garbage. Also ive played the Canary MU more, I think it's even. It wouldn't be if she didn't have that absurd setplay. We don't handle pressure very well due to shit backdash and shit D1 so she kind of walks all over us up close.
Click to expand...
my bad i didnt mean that meant 4-6 but i really think its even against darkseid
 
Percimon

Percimon

Sky above, Voice within
MU against Firestorm feels really close, but you should be extremely patient:

MU against Superman is worse, cuz of his air lasers, even clone can't help to punish them consistently.
Also, does anyone have Black Manta MU experience? I met one good BM today and it was pretty hard to play against him cuz of air harpoon, armor breaking laser and fast, good range and safe strings.. And ST can't punish his standing harpoon with vine grab :(
 
U

UltraDavid

Mortal
My thoughts after the November patch, obviously too early to be sure about these and I haven't played against the other characters who've been significantly buffed, but it's fun anyway:

20171114 (Swamp-opponent)
--Aquaman: 6-4
--Atrocitus: 6-4
--Bane: 6-4
--Batman: 4-6
--Black Adam: 4-6
--Black Canary: 6-4
--Black Manta: 5-5
--Blue Beetle: 5-5
--Brainiac: 5-5
--Captain Cold: 5-5
--Catwoman: 4-6
--Cheetah: 5-5
--Cyborg: idk yet
--Darkseid: 4-6
--Deadshot: 4-6
--Dr Fate: 5-5
--Firestorm: idk yet
--Flash: 5-5
--Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
--Green Arrow: 3-7
--Green Lantern: 5-5
--Harley Quinn: 4-6
--Joker: idk yet
--Poison Ivy: 6-4
--Raiden: 5-5
--Red Hood: 4-6
--Robin: 6-4
--Scarecrow: 5-5
--Sub Zero: 6-4
--Supergirl: 4-6
--Starfire: 4-6
--Superman: 3-7
--Wonder Woman: 4-6
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
UltraDavid said:
My thoughts after the November patch, obviously too early to be sure about these and I haven't played against the other characters who've been significantly buffed, but it's fun anyway:

20171114 (Swamp-opponent)
--Aquaman: 6-4
--Atrocitus: 6-4
--Bane: 6-4
--Batman: 4-6
--Black Adam: 4-6
--Black Canary: 6-4
--Black Manta: 5-5
--Blue Beetle: 5-5
--Brainiac: 5-5
--Captain Cold: 5-5
--Catwoman: 4-6
--Cheetah: 5-5
--Cyborg: idk yet
--Darkseid: 4-6
--Deadshot: 4-6
--Dr Fate: 5-5
--Firestorm: idk yet
--Flash: 5-5
--Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
--Green Arrow: 3-7
--Green Lantern: 5-5
--Harley Quinn: 4-6
--Joker: idk yet
--Poison Ivy: 6-4
--Raiden: 5-5
--Red Hood: 4-6
--Robin: 6-4
--Scarecrow: 5-5
--Sub Zero: 6-4
--Supergirl: 4-6
--Starfire: 4-6
--Superman: 3-7
--Wonder Woman: 4-6
Click to expand...
Honestly I feel like we lose pretty harshly to Robin. He has a lot less commitment to his stuff spacing which rivals ours and having a 7f button really hinders us.
 
RNLDRGN

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
UltraDavid said:
My thoughts after the November patch, obviously too early to be sure about these and I haven't played against the other characters who've been significantly buffed, but it's fun anyway:

20171114 (Swamp-opponent)
--Aquaman: 6-4
--Atrocitus: 6-4
--Bane: 6-4
--Batman: 4-6
--Black Adam: 4-6
--Black Canary: 6-4
--Black Manta: 5-5
--Blue Beetle: 5-5
--Brainiac: 5-5
--Captain Cold: 5-5
--Catwoman: 4-6
--Cheetah: 5-5
--Cyborg: idk yet
--Darkseid: 4-6
--Deadshot: 4-6
--Dr Fate: 5-5
--Firestorm: idk yet
--Flash: 5-5
--Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
--Green Arrow: 3-7
--Green Lantern: 5-5
--Harley Quinn: 4-6
--Joker: idk yet
--Poison Ivy: 6-4
--Raiden: 5-5
--Red Hood: 4-6
--Robin: 6-4
--Scarecrow: 5-5
--Sub Zero: 6-4
--Supergirl: 4-6
--Starfire: 4-6
--Superman: 3-7
--Wonder Woman: 4-6
Click to expand...
This is pretty good, but I still think a lot of his winning MUs you listed (Aquaman, Atroc, Bane, Ivy, Robin, SZ) are actually even. But I would also echo that post-patch, his toughest MUs are probably Supes, Harley, Green Arrow, Catwoman, and possibly even still Batman.

I'm always cautious to give Swamp Thing this many winning MUs because of how hard he has to work to get in vs a lot of these characters but also to keep some of them off of him, even if he is technically very capable of taking some W's.

He's better in this patch FOR SURE, but I think Supes, Harley, and Catwoman alone will keep him from being a Top 8 finisher on the reg bc of how common those characters are in tournament.
 
U

UltraDavid

Mortal
Robin huh? I tend to beat Robin players pretty well, although there's only Robin player on Earth and I've never actually played against Hayatei, so I guess it's hard to say.

Idk about Harley being a common character haha, but yeah seems like he'll need a counterpick for at least Superman and Arrow (who I expect to be more common now in this patch, I think he's gonna be top tier). I don't think Harley is quite as oppressive because her wakeup is weaker and her grounded zoning doesn't hit BF3 hold like Superman laser and Green Arrow low shot do.
 
Hellz HitmaN

Hellz HitmaN

Noob
UltraDavid said:
My thoughts after the November patch, obviously too early to be sure about these and I haven't played against the other characters who've been significantly buffed, but it's fun anyway:

20171114 (Swamp-opponent)
--Aquaman: 6-4
--Atrocitus: 6-4
--Bane: 6-4
--Batman: 4-6
--Black Adam: 4-6
--Black Canary: 6-4
--Black Manta: 5-5
--Blue Beetle: 5-5
--Brainiac: 5-5
--Captain Cold: 5-5
--Catwoman: 4-6
--Cheetah: 5-5
--Cyborg: idk yet
--Darkseid: 4-6
--Deadshot: 4-6
--Dr Fate: 5-5
--Firestorm: idk yet
--Flash: 5-5
--Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
--Green Arrow: 3-7
--Green Lantern: 5-5
--Harley Quinn: 4-6
--Joker: idk yet
--Poison Ivy: 6-4
--Raiden: 5-5
--Red Hood: 4-6
--Robin: 6-4
--Scarecrow: 5-5
--Sub Zero: 6-4
--Supergirl: 4-6
--Starfire: 4-6
--Superman: 3-7
--Wonder Woman: 4-6
Click to expand...
I also think we lose to Robin (or at least go even) and I really don't think we beat Bane. Beating Aquaman is also a stretch.

However, I do not think we lose to Black Adam. He outzones us, but we really can lock him down. I also am not convinced we lose to Wonder Woman. She has to approach us. We can punish shield toss quite effectively with vines.
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Hellz HitmaN said:
I also think we lose to Robin (or at least go even) and I really don't think we beat Bane. Beating Aquaman is also a stretch.

However, I do not think we lose to Black Adam. He outzones us, but we really can lock him down. I also am not convinced we lose to Wonder Woman. She has to approach us. We can punish shield toss quite effectively with vines.
Click to expand...
Whenever someone talks about punishing WW's shield toss, I always cringe a little. No one is forcing a WW player to use the grounded toss when there's a safe instant air. Besides which, it can be meter burned to be safe, so good luck with that whole punishing thing lol. If anything, you should be terrified to use vines at all unless you're all about getting punished free. DB3 is a good check, but that's about all I can give ST against WW in neutral. You have to be patient and make hard reads. At least Swampy can get some health back with green thumb. Even if you aren't opened up once, expect 20-30% chip before you even get to play the game.
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Side note, we zone Batman and now have free armor once he's in. Are we sure this is 4-6 guys?
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
UltraDavid said:
Robin huh? I tend to beat Robin players pretty well, although there's only Robin player on Earth and I've never actually played against Hayatei, so I guess it's hard to say.

Idk about Harley being a common character haha, but yeah seems like he'll need a counterpick for at least Superman and Arrow (who I expect to be more common now in this patch, I think he's gonna be top tier). I don't think Harley is quite as oppressive because her wakeup is weaker and her grounded zoning doesn't hit BF3 hold like Superman laser and Green Arrow low shot do.
Click to expand...
I agree with the Harley sentiment. The matchup feels so much better due to the Oki buffs and the BF3 buff. Log buff is also tremendous. It's not a super easy MU but it's 100% doable now. Pre patch I felt 7-3 her favor now it's a light 6-4 imo.
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
CrazyFingers said:
We don't zone Batman wtf?
Click to expand...
Try it. Anywhere midscreen/fullscreen db3 will punish a batarang and you still have time to duck it. At any range you can trade and have advantage. He can't lame you. The only downside is that he can dash in, but once you establish your game you can mix in log as well.

Edit: played the MU last night and it's infinitely easier than the Crow/Batman MU. I used to use Cold against the Bat, but Swampy is probably my new go-to.
 
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foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
And to expand on the armor thing, we have a launching armored anti air. Trait/jump in doesn't exist for him while we're in the garden. He can dash in with 3 bats and parry to bait a standing 3, but that's some next level yomi that's irrelevant to the point.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
foxof42 said:
Try it. Anywhere midscreen/fullscreen db3 will punish a batarang and you still have time to duck it. At any range you can trade and have advantage. He can't lame you. The only downside is that he can dash in, but once you establish your game you can mix in log as well.

Edit: played the MU last night and it's infinitely easier than the Crow/Batman MU. I used to use Cold against the Bat, but Swampy is probably my new go-to.
Click to expand...
Literally nothing changed about Db3 or batarang recovery so how do just now zone him? This has literally never been the case.
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Maybe the guy I was playing was mashy buns? Lol I'll test it and post when I get home
 
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