Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
We didn't have one of these in the forum so just thought id throw one up.
so discuss away
so discuss away
I would agree with most of this, but I'm finding db3 with supes air laser is 9/10 times a trade, but that might just be me.Toughest match ups I've found is probably Catwoman. Her JI2 is basically ours but better and she can be on top of us at any time which is pretty sad for Swampers. Best hope is she mis-spaces it so you get a AA 1 or low profile D3.
Deadshot and probably Fate are tough but seem doable.
I've found he has pretty poor punish options up close for characters with slightly negative pressure. Things like fate ankh -8 or stuff that's around -10 but pushes you out of 1 or D2 range is annoying. Best to go for a green thumb punish or start B2/F2 pressure. If they are close and slightly negative D2 > green thumb is a pretty great tool.
He slightly makes up for that by having great midscreen/75% screen punishes with vine grab and F2. So far he gets hard punishes on:
Lightning Strike (if Black Adam barely whiffs this after you jump it's a free punish)
Tentacle Strike (half-ish screen)
Trident (I think lol)
WW shield (you can also whiff punish air shield but it's difficult. Might be better to just log or clone)
Supes air laser (DB3)
Harley air pistol
Harley MB air pistol(*!! found this one the other day, MB a F3 in between for a full punish)
Shouldn't be trading with supes air laser, it's a punish after block. Someone posted about it in the general I think.I would agree with most of this, but I'm finding db3 with supes air laser is 9/10 times a trade, but that might just be me.
Also, nice find on the harley punish, will have to try that, but in that MU for me she generally sits out of f3 reach for air guns...
Also feeling like fate is not as bad of a MU as it looks on paper, you can crouch walk alot of his stuff, ignore MB orbs because you have the reach with db1, db3 and df1.. tend to stick to db1 and db3 though, he will generally see df1 coming a mile away. Fullscreen is a pain but if he gets comfy and spams, db3ex is a great punish to close the gap
Still not sold on deadshot being manage-able, his recovery and fullscreen dominance are too much for me, so any tips are appreciated
Feel like darkseid is 4-6 too, the spammy ones you can deal with, but the set players will make you afraid to use db2 to punish teleport, forget air grabbing him because you won't land it, you have to be incredibly patient and try to open him when he risks coming in
Yes, Aqua man is by far a superior character to Swamp thing . No way it's 5-5 given damage output alone between the two.ST vs. Aquaman: A friend is maining Aquaman so I've gotten in a lot of time with this matchup. Even though it's probably roughly 5-5 it's frustrating and stressful because Aqua's buttons are generally so much better. My buddy likes to throw unsafe stuff out frequently but because everything Swamp Thing has is slow it's hard to punish any of it.
Which brings up a question... is it me or does Swamp Thing not have much of a wakeup game? DB2 is nearly useless in that vein. I haven't really tried BF3 yet - on paper it doesn't seem like a horrible option at -3... Anyone know if it's armored?
Hey Matt, sup?Yes, Aqua man is by far a superior character to Swamp thing . No way it's 5-5 given damage output alone between the two.
BF3 does have invincibility on the initial startup when used as a wake-up. It is vulnerable right before it hits, similar to many wake-up attacks.
You can try backdashing on wake-up as a very high risk option as well. One thing NRS got right was ensuring this character archetype is weak against pressure... ha... ha... ha... (joker style).
I feel as though a-man is 5-5 myself also, my first post I made some notes as to working around his projectiles. He is an annoying MU for sure, he is plus on so many strings and it can be difficult to get around that. My only suggestion so far would be to keep him within F2 range, because it reaches further than his moves.Hey Matt, sup?
I didn't wanna be overly dramatic by saying 4-6 or worse cus it's early and I don't like crying wolf generally, but... it's pretty rough. Because Aquaman is uber + on so many of his strings and Swamp Thing has such high startups on everything I've had to learn to be crazy patient and block a lot. I'm waiting for my buddy to start throwing more to counter and then I'll really have no answers.
The situations which led to my question about wakeups are when I'm nearly or fully in the corner and have no room to backdash.
Projecting to the future, I'm wondering how the hell Swampy is gonna be able to handle faster characters like Catwoman and Cheetah.
I'm having to separate how I do vs Canary and admit that if a Swamp main labs her mixup and gets good at blocking it he is definitely at advantage. Hell I get hit by that shit every time and I still don't feel like it's that hard even when I lose. Unless she has trait she's not a huge threat to him.Damn this is the second thread I've seen where swamp beats canary. I need to run that.
I agree with Ivy tho. I would even go as far as say 7-3 in her favor. It's pretty bad lol
What do you mean?lul decay has some explaining to do about the beetle matchup. its only 4-6 and yet...
Aquaman thoughts:I find it fascinating that you have Atro and Aqua as 5-5. Although i've never played either so I can't refute it at all. What makes them even in your mind?
Only thing I'd say is no Atro is going to do raw trait or throw out random puddles against someone who can punish them. What I would like to know is how much meter Swamp can build for pushblock, how he deals with shield approaches, and what his wakeup options might be when dealing with Atro's oki. I'm personally skeptical of it being anything other than Atro's favor, but I would need to play it a lot.I'm having to separate how I do vs Canary and admit that if a Swamp main labs her mixup and gets good at blocking it he is definitely at advantage. Hell I get hit by that shit every time and I still don't feel like it's that hard even when I lose. Unless she has trait she's not a huge threat to him.
What do you mean?
1. Vines. They can punish FTD from close and mid range.
2. Footsies. Swamp actually gets to play footsies vs Aquaman. Yes he gets outdamaged overall, but he can absolutely hang with our Ocean Boy mid range.
3. Trait. Aquaman's trait is negligible in this MU bc Swamp's combos usually launch either immediately or after an unsuccessfully blocked mixup. I've been water of life'd out of a Swamp combo maybe 1 time ever.
Atrocitus thoughts (quoting @CrazyFingers on some of this--he thinks it's Swamp favor).
Swamp can punish both raw trait and puddle with vines pretty easily. Swamp also has better footsies. The MU feels even to me, but I'm eager to hear what some Atroc mains say too.
Wanna add me on PSN and run it? I could very well be wrong.Only thing I'd say is no Atro is going to do raw trait or throw out random puddles against someone who can punish them. What I would like to know is how much meter Swamp can build for pushblock, how he deals with shield approaches, and what his wakeup options might be when dealing with Atro's oki. I'm personally skeptical of it being anything other than Atro's favor, but I would need to play it a lot.