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Swamp Thing Matchup Discussion Thread

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Harley is a BAD 4-6 IMO. Her zoning is too quick and the dogs really lock him down. It's rough as hell.
Yeah I agree. With Swamp it seems like some of her options that other characters may be able to hamper a bit since they have slower startup really don't apply and she can pretty much use everything at her disposal. Having to get around the dogs and then still deal with her other zoning options after he deals with them seems pretty rough. I wanna play the MU against a good one though because like I said all the rando's I've played online were pretty bad IMO.
 

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Premium Supporter
Ok guys, if you were wondering what those weird thumps you heard the other night were, they were me getting my ass kicked by Catwoman. I woke up having nightmares about that whip. I'll never watch Indiana Jones again without crying. I kicked a tabby for sheer revenge!

Seriously though... I've got nothing. I honest to god spent half the matches D2xxBio Fission hoping it would hit and I could get some kind of damage. HOW DO YOU GET HER AWAY?! LOL. You guys have anything?

Seriously, I did a few Clashes just so I could get one hit :D
 
Ok guys, if you were wondering what those weird thumps you heard the other night were, they were me getting my ass kicked by Catwoman. I woke up having nightmares about that whip. I'll never watch Indiana Jones again without crying. I kicked a tabby for sheer revenge!

Seriously though... I've got nothing. I honest to god spent half the matches D2xxBio Fission hoping it would hit and I could get some kind of damage. HOW DO YOU GET HER AWAY?! LOL. You guys have anything?

Seriously, I did a few Clashes just so I could get one hit :D
Just gotta read what that player likes to do. Are they staying full screen and scouting for a cat dash? Don't just throw random logs out. Do they like to b3? Be careful if they have meter and use Swampy's range. Jump 2? Honestly just block a lot. Swampy is not helpless against Catwoman at all. You have to beat the player, not the perfect matchup.

One thing i noticed is that Catwoman likes to stay low but not guard low. Hit her with multiple oki d3's and condition to block low then go f3 or something. Swampy is all about keeping people honest. I also would not wake up with db2 because it's easily punished by CW. Try to surpise them with bf3 on wakeup (or as close to it).
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Ok guys, if you were wondering what those weird thumps you heard the other night were, they were me getting my ass kicked by Catwoman. I woke up having nightmares about that whip. I'll never watch Indiana Jones again without crying. I kicked a tabby for sheer revenge!

Seriously though... I've got nothing. I honest to god spent half the matches D2xxBio Fission hoping it would hit and I could get some kind of damage. HOW DO YOU GET HER AWAY?! LOL. You guys have anything?

Seriously, I did a few Clashes just so I could get one hit :D
Dude I lost to a Catwoman player in my local tournament last night. I beat the ever-loving piss out of him the first 2 games, then he started B3, backdash, J2, rinse, wash, repeat--I couldn't really do much. This is a really tough MU if the Catwoman has good spacing and punishes your log/vines with catdash. You also have to kind of respect her on wakeup (catdash or dp). I honestly don't have a good answer to this character. Her dumb +frames B3 low profiling your only good footsie tool and her ability to do 100+ more damage than you every time she touches you is really frustrating.

I swear the longer I play this game the more inept and completely braindead I think some of the balancing staff at NRS is lol. Not to bad mouth everyone, but srsly some of the frame data and mechanics on normals are such afterthoughts compared to "hey check out this cool gear piece" which was obviously the front & center focus.
 

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Premium Supporter
Dude I lost to a Catwoman player in my local tournament last night. I beat the ever-loving piss out of him the first 2 games, then he started B3, backdash, J2, rinse, wash, repeat--I couldn't really do much. This is a really tough MU if the Catwoman has good spacing and punishes your log/vines with catdash. You also have to kind of respect her on wakeup (catdash or dp). I honestly don't have a good answer to this character. Her dumb +frames B3 low profiling your only good footsie tool and her ability to do 100+ more damage than you every time she touches you is really frustrating.

I swear the longer I play this game the more inept and completely braindead I think some of the balancing staff at NRS is lol. Not to bad mouth everyone, but srsly some of the frame data and mechanics on normals are such afterthoughts compared to "hey check out this cool gear piece" which was obviously the front & center focus.
That feels about right, haha. At least I'm not alone! Thanks man :)
 

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Premium Supporter
Just gotta read what that player likes to do. Are they staying full screen and scouting for a cat dash? Don't just throw random logs out. Do they like to b3? Be careful if they have meter and use Swampy's range. Jump 2? Honestly just block a lot. Swampy is not helpless against Catwoman at all. You have to beat the player, not the perfect matchup.

One thing i noticed is that Catwoman likes to stay low but not guard low. Hit her with multiple oki d3's and condition to block low then go f3 or something. Swampy is all about keeping people honest. I also would not wake up with db2 because it's easily punished by CW. Try to surpise them with bf3 on wakeup (or as close to it).
No, this guy was straight up in my face. Every knock down he was right at sweep range, and checked me with B2. It's an advancing mid, 0 on block, and beats BF3 on wake up. If not that, he was B3. And then he just brought it. If I did manage to block everything, he would Cat Stance cancel into cart wheel or back dash. He had great overhead and low mixes. He neutral jump 2 into whip at Max range. I felt powerless! When I switched to Bane it felt like a completely different match.
 
No, this guy was straight up in my face. Every knock down he was right at sweep range, and checked me with B2. It's an advancing mid, 0 on block, and beats BF3 on wake up. If not that, he was B3. And then he just brought it. If I did manage to block everything, he would Cat Stance cancel into cart wheel or back dash. He had great overhead and low mixes. He neutral jump 2 into whip at Max range. I felt powerless! When I switched to Bane it felt like a completely different match.
Unfortunately it sounds like you might have just been beaten. Not that Catwoman doesn't have good mixups or rushdown or anything, but she has those against every character, not just Swampy. And with Bane, he actually has probably the best wakeup and oki in the game. She'd be stupid not to respect you. Honestly if you're feeling lost of wakeup this is when you throw mix of your own into it. You can essentially wakeup with db1, db2, and bf3. You can also delay wakeup with stance switch. You can mb roll out of situations you don't like. But really you should probably just block :/
 

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Premium Supporter
Unfortunately it sounds like you might have just been beaten. Not that Catwoman doesn't have good mixups or rushdown or anything, but she has those against every character, not just Swampy. And with Bane, he actually has probably the best wakeup and oki in the game. She'd be stupid not to respect you. Honestly if you're feeling lost of wakeup this is when you throw mix of your own into it. You can essentially wakeup with db1, db2, and bf3. You can also delay wakeup with stance switch. You can mb roll out of situations you don't like. But really you should probably just block :/
Oh yeah dude, at the core of it I just got my ass handed to me on a platter.

The problem I'm having is, the wake up thing was just one issue. He had absolutely zero fear of me in footsies because I couldn't get any of my strings going. If we traded combos he came out on top. Anyway, I just couldn't figure out footsies with her was the biggest issue.

I for one have always had problems with that character. I'll hit the lab and try to find some punishes! Gimme about a week, lol.

Also, thank you for your suggestions!
 
Oh yeah dude, at the core of it I just got my ass handed to me on a platter.

The problem I'm having is, the wake up thing was just one issue. He had absolutely zero fear of me in footsies because I couldn't get any of my strings going. If we traded combos he came out on top. Anyway, I just couldn't figure out footsies with her was the biggest issue.

I for one have always had problems with that character. I'll hit the lab and try to find some punishes! Gimme about a week, lol.
That's the spirit, yo. Get in and find the things she was crushing you with a break em down. I have crazy trouble with supergirl and the mobility and random teleport overheads. A minor portion of that is due to swamp things mobility but the majority of it is I can't flippin block it in time. If I could block mbteleport even the swampiest of tiers *cough cough* could punish the hell out of her.

One weird thing that Swampy allows us to do is like crazy dumb stuff that shouldn't work. Most people don't expect a 2nd f3.

Nobody expects a 3rd bahaha.
 

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Premium Supporter
That's the spirit, yo. Get in and find the things she was crushing you with a break em down. I have crazy trouble with supergirl and the mobility and random teleport overheads. A minor portion of that is due to swamp things mobility but the majority of it is I can't flippin block it in time. If I could block mbteleport even the swampiest of tiers *cough cough* could punish the hell out of her.

One weird thing that Swampy allows us to do is like crazy dumb stuff that shouldn't work. Most people don't expect a 2nd f3.

Nobody expects a 3rd bahaha.
LMFAO!!! Indeed sir, indeed :)
 
Where does his club go during his D2? Robin uses his sword. Aquaman uses the trident. Swampy just has an uppercut with piss poor range. Sad face emoji
My guess is they probably want you to df1u to anti air. It's tough though, basically gotta be a read. I've never been the expert AA'r though and typically block and wait to punish.
 

SuppaSapien3

Chipotle and Olive Garden are NOT authentic
So whats everyone's game plan against thumb cemented to back direction players? Especially those who have projectiles? I dash, I get clipped by projectile. I use vine they duck. I use log they either instant air projectile or divekick me. Whast swamp-things approach in general? I feel that neatherrelms, from their streams meant for swaps to use the b23 combination, but f23 seems to be the most range, but no one respects it...
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
So whats everyone's game plan against thumb cemented to back direction players? Especially those who have projectiles? I dash, I get clipped by projectile. I use vine they duck. I use log they either instant air projectile or divekick me. Whast swamp-things approach in general? I feel that neatherrelms, from their streams meant for swaps to use the b23 combination, but f23 seems to be the most range, but no one respects it...
Duck and walk. It's painfully slow and incredibly frustrating, but you have to do all you can to get them in the corner and punish them if they try to run and switch sides on you. Even the best zoners can be backed into the corner and mixed up a couple of times for 800+ damage. Save your meter for combos since MB roll will usually get punished vs Deadshot, Fate, Batman, etc.

Where I have the most trouble is characters who can zone & have tons of air mobility (Supes, Starfire, Cyborg). These are by far some of his worst MUs because they can zone you from an area on the screen you cannot well attack. These are your MB roll matchups where you need to get a read, get in, and punish. Be patient. Don't be afraid of chip, and look for chances to air-to-air, up vines, or D2 them. It's tough man, but be vigilant.
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
Sup guys, is there a Swamp Thing Discord? Curious to learn more about him and the subforums seem to have died out a bit.
 

JnTonioo

Yurp
Duck and walk. It's painfully slow and incredibly frustrating, but you have to do all you can to get them in the corner and punish them if they try to run and switch sides on you. Even the best zoners can be backed into the corner and mixed up a couple of times for 800+ damage. Save your meter for combos since MB roll will usually get punished vs Deadshot, Fate, Batman, etc.

Where I have the most trouble is characters who can zone & have tons of air mobility (Supes, Starfire, Cyborg). These are by far some of his worst MUs because they can zone you from an area on the screen you cannot well attack. These are your MB roll matchups where you need to get a read, get in, and punish. Be patient. Don't be afraid of chip, and look for chances to air-to-air, up vines, or D2 them. It's tough man, but be vigilant.
i dont think the cyborg mu is that bad u can check cyborg for shooting in the air with db3 its a trade but it helps u get in better on him
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
My Current Matchup Chart (In Progress)

Sub-Zero: 4-6
Cyborg: 4-6 (Figuring Out)
Catwoman: 5-5
Flash: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 3-7
Batman: 4-6
Red Hood: 3-7
Superman: 4-6
Joker: 4-6 (Figuring Out)
Atrocitus: 5-5
Gorilla Grodd: 4-6
Cheetah: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7
Ivy: 4-6
Starfire: 4-6
Super girl: 5-5 (Maybe 6-4)
Green Arrow: 4-6 (Maybe 3-7)
Dr. Fate: 5-5
Blue Beetle: 4-6 (Figuring Out)
Aquaman: 5-5
Firestorm: 4-6
Black Canary: No Clue
Darkseid: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Captain Cold: 3-7 (Maybe 4-6, figuring it out)
Robin: 4-6
Scarecrow: 5-5
Bane: 4-6
Brainiac: 5-5
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
My Current Matchup Chart (In Progress)

Sub-Zero: 4-6
Cyborg: 4-6 (Figuring Out)
Catwoman: 5-5
Flash: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 3-7
Batman: 4-6
Red Hood: 3-7
Superman: 4-6
Joker: 4-6 (Figuring Out)
Atrocitus: 5-5
Gorilla Grodd: 4-6
Cheetah: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7
Ivy: 4-6
Starfire: 4-6
Super girl: 5-5 (Maybe 6-4)
Green Arrow: 4-6 (Maybe 3-7)
Dr. Fate: 5-5
Blue Beetle: 4-6 (Figuring Out)
Aquaman: 5-5
Firestorm: 4-6
Black Canary: No Clue
Darkseid: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Captain Cold: 3-7 (Maybe 4-6, figuring it out)
Robin: 4-6
Scarecrow: 5-5
Bane: 4-6
Brainiac: 5-5
Cyborg MU isn't terrible, but it's probably still his advantage.

Superman MU is harder than you're giving credit for, IMO. But yeah it's definitely losing.

Grodd seems even to me.

Fate seems slight advantage to Fate, but I'll agree you can bully tf out of him once you get in.

Starfire could be worse. Her zoning is oh so effective in this MU.

Black Canary is advantage Swamp Thing. I'd say 6-4. His trait is awesome in this MU.

WW beats Swamp IMO. She can bully him with air and ground shield all day. I love grab immunity...

Captain Cold isn't THAT bad.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
Cyborg MU isn't terrible, but it's probably still his advantage.

Superman MU is harder than you're giving credit for, IMO. But yeah it's definitely losing.

Grodd seems even to me.

Fate seems slight advantage to Fate, but I'll agree you can bully tf out of him once you get in.

Starfire could be worse. Her zoning is oh so effective in this MU.

Black Canary is advantage Swamp Thing. I'd say 6-4. His trait is awesome in this MU.

WW beats Swamp IMO. She can bully him with air and ground shield all day. I love grab immunity...

Captain Cold isn't THAT bad.
Problem with Grodd is we cant punish stampede cancel and if he puts projectile immunity on we actually cant combo him at all, it's really upsetting. Superman can be tough but when we get a hit we can really bully the ever loving shit out of him. WoWo we can punish some shield stuff others cant and our ducking animation can make MB air shield whiff which is huge, you just need to play pretty patiently is all. I honestly dont see how against a competent cold we're supposed to handle him. Most of the things I do (like vine grabbing him during trait charge or through ice wall) shouldn't be happening if the cold is good. I'll play it more against good colds but right now, shit feels god awful. Starfire pre patch I would say was 3-7 but if you play patiently and time MB rolls correctly it's doable. Pre patch the biggest problem was she hit you so god damn hard if you made even a tiny mistake but now she does like no damage so we good. I'm surprised you didn't mention my Supergirl numbers, a lot of people look at me oddly when I mention he might beat her lol.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Problem with Grodd is we cant punish stampede cancel and if he puts projectile immunity on we actually cant combo him at all, it's really upsetting. Superman can be tough but when we get a hit we can really bully the ever loving shit out of him. WoWo we can punish some shield stuff others cant and our ducking animation can make MB air shield whiff which is huge, you just need to play pretty patiently is all. I honestly dont see how against a competent cold we're supposed to handle him. Most of the things I do (like vine grabbing him during trait charge or through ice wall) shouldn't be happening if the cold is good. I'll play it more against good colds but right now, shit feels god awful. Starfire pre patch I would say was 3-7 but if you play patiently and time MB rolls correctly it's doable. Pre patch the biggest problem was she hit you so god damn hard if you made even a tiny mistake but now she does like no damage so we good. I'm surprised you didn't mention my Supergirl numbers, a lot of people look at me oddly when I mention he might beat her lol.
I think he goes even with Super Girl. I dont see him beating her, but it doesn't really feel skewed either way IMO. Shes tough but it's def doable.

And yeah good Colds can really give Swampy trouble, but I dunno if it's Deadshot, Superman, or HQ trouble--those are his worst MUs IMO.

I've had excellent luck MB F3ing Grodd out of his pressure and we can anti air him easily with D2, 11, or up vines all day for those yolo Grodds. We also out-footsie him pretty well.

WW is interesting in that at first the MU feels pretty even, but I've played several good WW's and by the end of the set they do nothing but max distance air and ground shield (which you cannot punish with vines if spaced well). She is a really good counter to footsie characters. The MU isn't awful, but I'd say 4-6 WW favor.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
Oh also with Black Adam, give me a bit, I actually have a decent amount of reasons I think it's even.