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Swamp Thing Matchup Discussion Thread

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
I'm having to separate how I do vs Canary and admit that if a Swamp main labs her mixup and gets good at blocking it he is definitely at advantage. Hell I get hit by that shit every time and I still don't feel like it's that hard even when I lose. Unless she has trait she's not a huge threat to him.


What do you mean?


Aquaman thoughts:
1. Vines. They can punish FTD from close and mid range.

2. Footsies. Swamp actually gets to play footsies vs Aquaman. Yes he gets outdamaged overall, but he can absolutely hang with our Ocean Boy mid range.

3. Trait. Aquaman's trait is negligible in this MU bc Swamp's combos usually launch either immediately or after an unsuccessfully blocked mixup. I've been water of life'd out of a Swamp combo maybe 1 time ever.

Atrocitus thoughts (quoting @CrazyFingers on some of this--he thinks it's Swamp favor).
Swamp can punish both raw trait and puddle with vines pretty easily. Swamp also has better footsies. The MU feels even to me, but I'm eager to hear what some Atroc mains say too.
oh dont worry about it bro just another nrs scrub getting outfundamenteled by me so bad they make up worse matchup numbers nbd my man carry on


i dont think supergirl is 5-5 tho but only because swamp thing is trash lul
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Not max range, but half screen and outside of footsie range absolutely.
You can do the same to Darkseid's grounded omega beams. Will you punish them every time? Probably not. But if you represent the threat of the MB vine grab, which almost does 25% of damage, the Darkseid player will be doing aerial omega beams, which have less recovery frames yet more start up frames. You can perform an MB forward dash and punish an aerial omega beam on a read or you can continue trading with the beams using d,b+3 if you have a life lead.

I am not sold on Darkseid beating Swamp Thing 7:3, but we could play the match on PSN and find out.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
You can do the same to Darkseid's grounded omega beams. Will you punish them every time? Probably not. But if you represent the threat of the MB vine grab, which almost does 25% of damage, the Darkseid player will be doing aerial omega beams, which have less recovery frames yet more start up frames. You can perform an MB forward dash and punish an aerial omega beam on a read or you can continue trading with the beams using d,b+3 if you have a life lead.

I am not sold on Darkseid beating Swamp Thing 7:3, but we could play the match on PSN and find out.
I'm probably overselling how hard it is, but I still don't think it's really close to even.

Would love to run some sets sometime. I usually go Aquaman in the MU but I'll give Swamp another swing.
 

masuhdunkillyall

Aht Aht Aht!
Bane 4-6 is agreeable. Rogan when I played you the other day I forgot that Bane's d1xbane bomb blows up swamps wakeup if timed properly. Kept brain-farting on what to do against swamp's wakeup.

Everytime I play against Bane's in ranked with swampy I crush them, but I had never played against swampy AS bane. Good stuff.

As for the rest, I have a tough time against Batman, Supergirl, and Brainiac for whatever reason. Along with Red Hood.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
I haven't really played this MU much but after seeing what's what with his moves and how they operate vs joker I'm beginning to agree with the Joker MU. I would still like to play it more to have a solid opinion.
 

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
Bane 4-6 is agreeable. Rogan when I played you the other day I forgot that Bane's d1xbane bomb blows up swamps wakeup if timed properly. Kept brain-farting on what to do against swamp's wakeup.

Everytime I play against Bane's in ranked with swampy I crush them, but I had never played against swampy AS bane. Good stuff.

As for the rest, I have a tough time against Batman, Supergirl, and Brainiac for whatever reason. Along with Red Hood.
Red hood I feel is disgustingly hard. Deadshot lame but in a runaway vs keep away disgusting. Blah!
 

masuhdunkillyall

Aht Aht Aht!
Red hood I feel is disgustingly hard. Deadshot lame but in a runaway vs keep away disgusting. Blah!
Yeah, he shuts down the neutral with mines and can easily play keepaway. His parry is also good against our best neutral string and on wakeup...if MB'd it puts us full screen again.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Bane 4-6 is agreeable. Rogan when I played you the other day I forgot that Bane's d1xbane bomb blows up swamps wakeup if timed properly. Kept brain-farting on what to do against swamp's wakeup.

Everytime I play against Bane's in ranked with swampy I crush them, but I had never played against swampy AS bane. Good stuff.

As for the rest, I have a tough time against Batman, Supergirl, and Brainiac for whatever reason. Along with Red Hood.
Yessir. I also have a hard time with Brainiac (same problems as Scarecrow--faster footsies, occupy same range) but have been ASSURED it's 5-5. I don't play the MU enough to say definitively that it's worse.

i think swamp thing vs darksied is 4 6 its not that bad
You're probably right. I mainly put a couple 3-7s and a 2-8 in here because people never use MUs worse than 4-6 and I think it's good to differentiate how tough a barely losing MU is from a pretty apparent disadvantageous MU. As the game evolves I'm sure it'll even out a bit, but it is a TOUGH 4-6 if that's the case.

Red hood I feel is disgustingly hard. Deadshot lame but in a runaway vs keep away disgusting. Blah!
Red Hood is a really tough MU. Air guns (even though you can sometimes punish with vines) + mine, + tons of runaway attacks + ninja stars make him really tough to pressure.


Seriously I'd say 75% of Swamp Thing's losing MUs are because of how strong walkback/jumpback + zoning tool is with these huge ass levels (and Swamp's horrible walkspeed + MB dash).
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
What makes GL 5-5? So far I haven't had too many problems, especially in the zoning department.

Brainiac I agree with. Its a fun MU!
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
What makes GL 5-5? So far I haven't had too many problems, especially in the zoning department.

Brainiac I agree with. Its a fun MU!
Swamp doesn't have to respect GL wakeup (sweep or late F2 stuff it). His zoning is good, but once you get in it's fair. I could see it being slightly GL advantage, but it doesn't feel terrible.

If it's relatively close I usually default to 5-5.
 

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
Given the reason people think ST is bad due to backdash/backwalk/jumpback, is there any way we can punish this behavior? It seems Vine Grab would be good against the first 2... on paper...

I need all your strength for Evo people... GIVE ME HOPE... PLEASE!!!
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Given the reason people think ST is bad due to backdash/backwalk/jumpback, is there any way we can punish this behavior? It seems Vine Grab would be good against the first 2... on paper...

I need all your strength for Evo people... GIVE ME HOPE... PLEASE!!!
Log not going full screen makes it worse bc it's so easy to react to when you're walking back. Vine grab is a good start, but it doesn't do anything vs fullscreen opponents or those with midscreen air projectiles (air vines have laughable range and can be really tough to pull off on a reaction).

MB Roll is your best bet, but be prepared to get in, get clashed, and lose said clash vs anyone running away. So much fun....
 

masuhdunkillyall

Aht Aht Aht!
How does everyone feel about the Sub-Zero matchup? Out of the 20 or so different Sub-Zero players I fought the other night, only one had some actual dirt and was already great with the character.

That round was tough, but so far I think swampy does ok against him. Vines and clone help immensely against SZ's who want to hide behind ice clone, our long range f23 keeps him on his toes.
 

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
I'm going to evo with zero actual play against human experience with this game. Time to see if this old man can still sing it with experience alone. I'll message cries for help on matchups as I need them. Mercy assistance greatly appreciated.

Swamp thing can low profile block and D3 a lot of characters' long range jump ins. Short range anti air of choice still goes to standing 1. This includes aquaman jump 3 which you can duck out of if they mistime it. You can d3 cat woman jump 2. From far range against AM or close range against CW, standing 1 works against all jump ins.
 
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Anyone have solid advice against Supergirl? Mainly the teleport, it's so fast and can be thrown raw. I usually am expecting teleport and they'll hit with a full charged laser. I'm wondering if jumping in towards her is actually good?
 
What's the best visual indicator for the hitbox on Swamp Thing's vine grab. I can't seem to figure when when it should hit and when it shouldn't. It feels really finicky and sometimes a little random. Is it the spot right before the two vines meet?
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Anyone have solid advice against Supergirl? Mainly the teleport, it's so fast and can be thrown raw. I usually am expecting teleport and they'll hit with a full charged laser. I'm wondering if jumping in towards her is actually good?
I don't recommend jumping at her. I used to really struggle with her, but once you can react to the teleport online she's not so bad (the sound cue is the key). Just go to training mode and try and get where you can reliably hold forward on reaction to hearing the "whoosh" and punish with 11 MB Bayou Bash into full punish. Hell, even D2, 11 vines is a solid punish.

Overall she's not terribly bad once you get your offense started. Her wakeups are pretty mediocre so you can pressure with F23, sweep, etc with little worries. Just look for that up punch, but it's mega punishable if she abuses it.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Harley has to suck for him. I have only played really bad Swamp Things though so I don't really base anything off that, but I don't really see what he has that gives her any problems.
 
Harley has to suck for him. I have only played really bad Swamp Things though so I don't really base anything off that, but I don't really see what he has that gives her any problems.
Don't play too many harleys really but the only thing i was ever really whooped by was some zoning that I was surprised to find out were overheads (cupcakes). Also she can do the quick aerial guns like red hoods like to do. Nothing awful I can think of that doesn't affect the whole cast.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Harley has to suck for him. I have only played really bad Swamp Things though so I don't really base anything off that, but I don't really see what he has that gives her any problems.
Harley is a BAD 4-6 IMO. Her zoning is too quick and the dogs really lock him down. It's rough as hell.