Match-up Discussion Supermans Trait trivializes other traits in some match ups

[JaredL]

I know I may get some flak for this, but superman currently, with his trait fucks up other peoples traits in a really unfair way.

Superman, in order to get his trait out, doesn't have to work hard. There are no downsides to it. Its got short start up, short recovery and can be comboed. Its not slow as old Shazams or Lobo. Its fucking great.

And the problem is, it makes other traits like the ones Lex, Doomsday and Bane useless.

Its not like superman NEEDS this in order to survive vs Lex Doomsday and Bane, all those matchups are in supermans favour without his trait making them useless.

Really, would it be so tough to see it in your hearts and maybe change it so that his armor breaker only breaks armor on specials? Like grundys walking corpse, or armored B3s or doomsdays meterburned venom?

 

[MrAvA]

The only nerf superman needed is really his trait cool down that's it.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

He should have to charge it

Damage Buff plus breaking armor ..... for a button press? Nope
I hope they make him charge it like Sinestro had to. There is literally no downside to his trait.

 

[Compbros]

Really, would it be so tough to see it in your hearts

We're Superman mainers, we have no hearts! LOLZ F23 Breath GGNR!


Seriously though other people have fantastic traits with little to no start up/recovery (Aquaman, Lantern, Batman, etc....) or traits that are difficult to deal with (Sinestro, Lex, Doomsday, etc....). Supes gets a little power boost and eats armor, his short cooldown is all that should be changed.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

We're Superman mainers, we have no hearts! LOLZ F23 Breath GGNR!


Seriously though other people have fantastic traits with little to no start up/recovery (Aquaman, Lantern, Batman, etc....) or traits that are difficult to deal with (Sinestro, Lex, Doomsday, etc....). Supes gets a little power boost and eats armor, his short cooldown is all that should be changed.

no no

not just eat armor.

NEGATE traits. Doomsday WISHES it only ate armor.

He is bizarro Kenshi.

 

[kronspik]

The problem with Superman's trait isn't that its powerful per se, it's that it completely ruins the options of specific characters. It's way too matchup skewing.

 

[Compbros]

no no

not just eat armor.

NEGATE traits. Doomsday WISHES it only ate armor.

He is bizarro Kenshi.

Be smarter about it when you're fighting Supes. It may suck that it negates DDs trait but it also sucks for people going against DDs trait.

The problem with Superman's trait isn't that its powerful per se, it's that it completely ruins the options of specific characters. It's way too matchup skewing.

So is strong zoning, counter/anti-zoning or rushdown. Everything about a character skews a matchup, it just skews the matchup more for Doomsday and Lex just like Raven's near full screen moves skews the matchup on zoners.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Be smarter about it when you're fighting Supes. It may suck that it negates DDs trait but it also sucks for people going against DDs trait.

lol pretend you're a DD player, who's never used Superman

I don't mind the trait honestly.... I mind that he gets TWO buffs for a simple button press.
Who else does?

 

[RoboCop]

It's Bane's Venom with armor-negating properties that applies to aerial overhead projectiles, but with no negative effects on cooldown. Sounds fair to me.

 

[Dulllyanna]

Lex should be able to block and not lose armor imho. Also if we're going to talk about matchup based traits, then Aquaman's is the most blatant one. Do you have a two hit launcher? Even better, is it off one or both mixup options? If not...

 

[CCVengeance]

I may become a SUperman heaten for this but I agree somewhat with JaredL. It's just not fair that Supes makes 3 characters trait useless(Let's forget Lex trait is somewaht useless anayway).Sure you need to land a hit but it's still feels dirty.They should not remove it completely though.

 

[Compbros]

lol pretend you're a DD player, who's never used Superman

I don't mind the trait honestly.... I mind that he gets TWO buffs for a simple button press.
Who else does?

Batman gets instantly safe moves, zoning and defense with a button push. Aquaman instantly stops most combos with a single button push. Green Lantern gets a slight damage boost and a boost to his moves with a single button. Flash slows down time with a simple button push. Lex gets completely armor with a single button push. Doomsday gets some type of unbreakable film that acts as armor with a single button push. It goes on man.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Batman gets instantly safe moves, zoning and defense with a button push. Aquaman instantly stops most combos with a single button push. Green Lantern gets a slight damage boost and a boost to his moves with a single button. Flash slows down time with a simple button push. Lex gets completely armor with a single button push. Doomsday gets some type of unbreakable film that acts as armor with a single button push. It goes on man.

You totally proved my point

thank you.

Btw... batman's is broken as fudge too.

 

[DeathAndHealing]

They should just nerf it to where can only use it once a round, so twice during a battle

 

[Compbros]

You totally proved my point

thank you.

Btw... batman's is broken as fudge too.

Of what?

I don't mind if people are saying "trait is too strong" but people are coming with "DD and Lex players have to deal with this nonsense that negates their trait" when every other character has to deal with the "nonsense" of their trait and some characters are screwed when it comes to DD.



Edit: You're asking me, as a Supes player, to empathize with DD and Lex players and get a nerf to trait but are the Lex and DD players empathizing with others to get a nerf for their trait?

 

[greeneless]

Yes, it does. His nerf should have been his trait or super, not breath. Meh... guess he'll get nerfed again then.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Of what?

I don't mind if people are saying "trait is too strong" but people are coming with "DD and Lex players have to deal with this nonsense that negates their trait" when every other character has to deal with the "nonsense" of their trait and some characters are screwed when it comes to DD.

Would superman be worse if he didn't get the damage boost? Probably not.
The armor breaking hting is genious.... fits "Superman" and works well with his playstyle. The damage boost is just like... having your cake and eating it too.

Yeah ... i'm sort of complaining... and yeah I know I should deal with it. I'm just saying... he gets two buffs... while everyone else typically just gets one. That really is my only gripe.

Batman is probably the only other trait that is legit just nutty and almost OP. I think his trait should follow the same EXACT rules that Flash's trait does. All of them.

yo... thanks for discussing

 

[Compbros]

Would superman be worse if he didn't get the damage boost? Probably not.
The armor breaking hting is genious.... fits "Superman" and works well with his playstyle. The damage boost is just like... having your cake and eating it too.

Yeah ... i'm sort of complaining... and yeah I know I should deal with it. I'm just saying... he gets two buffs... while everyone else typically just gets one. That really is my only gripe.

Batman is probably the only other trait that is legit just nutty and almost OP. I think his trait should follow the same EXACT rules that Flash's trait does. All of them.

yo... thanks for discussing

Objectively, if you take away a power boost then how can it not make a character worse? Would he still be "viable"? Absolutely, but Supes does not have great tools for opening people up to begin with as his mixups are extremely punishable or beyond slow. Getting an extra 6-10 or so percent when you do land a hit hardly constitute a complete taking away of his damage boost. The corner is the most damaging with trait but corners are devastating most of the times anyway.


Let's say you take away his damage boost and leave his armor/trait breaking stuff, wouldn't this still be the gripe for the DD/Lex players? If you take away the armor stuff (beyond moves with armor) and leave the damage then the trait becomes objectively worse as there's no way to react to people doing armor moves in time to activate trait and blow it up as well as people simply not using armor moves when trait is active.


Green Lantern's does a damage boost and the ability for his specials to be better. Grundy gets an ender that could be a one meter 50 percent combo that boosts his damage, defense or receiving less chip. There's also all the people I named traits that are very strong.

No prob, if this wasn't sarcasm. Hard to tell online.

 

[Dulllyanna]

DD trait doesn't need buffed (For the purpose of this matchup) and imho he doesn't even need it against Superman. Just be smart with anti-zoning fundamentals like most characters have to against Superman, his dash is good, you have EX venom and if he activates trait in anticipation FFS don't do EX venom lol.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Objectively, if you take away a power boost then how can it not make a character worse? Would he still be "viable"? Absolutely, but Supes does not have great tools for opening people up to begin with as his mixups are extremely punishable or beyond slow. Getting an extra 6-10 or so percent when you do land a hit hardly constitute a complete taking away of his damage boost. The corner is the most damaging with trait but corners are devastating most of the times anyway.


Let's say you take away his damage boost and leave his armor/trait breaking stuff, wouldn't this still be the gripe for the DD/Lex players? If you take away the armor stuff (beyond moves with armor) and leave the damage then the trait becomes objectively worse as there's no way to react to people doing armor moves in time to activate trait and blow it up as well as people simply not using armor moves when trait is active.


Green Lantern's does a damage boost and the ability for his specials to be better. Grundy gets an end that could be a one meter 50 percent combo that boosts his damage, defense or receiving less chip. There's also all the people I named traits that are very strong.

No prob, if this wasn't sarcasm. Hard to tell online.

no sarcasm

you're making good points other than "yousuck deal with it"

 

[RWDY Nori]

Gotta love it when DD players are complaining about an overpowered trait

 

[SaltShaker]

That extra damage armor breaking short cooldown 4 button though.

 

[JaredL]

Gotta love it when DD players are complaining about an overpowered trait

Its not that his trait is overpowered.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that supermans trait is batman or aquaman tier. I'm saying that its extremely stupid kabal tier in SOME MATCHUPS. Batmans bats are the same in every match, same with aquamans.

The problem with Supermans is, it goes from great to broken in some matchups. And IMO, it shouldn't be so freaking broken in those matchups.

I don't think charging it is a great idea, KFs trait is already pretty useless. Giving it more cooldown doesn't really address much. Just changing what it breaks, and it ignoring TRAIT ARMOR, would make it a lot fairer.

 

[-Deadman-]

You mean to tell me there's a character who's trait gives them a damage boost and armor breaking on everything? Not just specials?
And they don't get a debilitating debuff for using it?

What is this? Witchcraft?

 

[JaredL]

Its like, playing as Bane vs Superman is a match between an ant and ... superman.

Banes frame data is shit, lets be honest. He lives and dies by his venom. Superman can just say "fuck that" and bam, bane might as well not have a trait.