General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero kombat pack 2 balance changes.

[zoofs]

goddamn man

I enjoy finding ways to possibly downplay this char but these threads are always ridiculous, he needs nothing but consistent female combos + b12 ex clone fixed

on a side note for luxury buffs I would actually really like a better d2 in unbreakable/gm, his aa options are solid but this move is abysmally bad atm and I don't see why. I would also really like to see his d1 get changed in some way, essentially no use for it with d3 and d4 having separate uses while still both being better in their own way. Of course he doesn't need these things but they wouldn't hurt or make him way better.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Maybe its just extra protein i m taking or it could be my sloot of girlfriend(female friend), legit 8/10.

She was acting extra clingy today, i told her to get f**ked.
she said "fuck yeah".

I did not smash feelsbadman.jpg

 

[Paradoxxx]

i say give him a freeze gun frost grenades and a white walker summoning skill!!are u serious right now???

 

[Ze Dingo]

Grandmaster Sub is super good. I didn't agree with the clone nerf at first, but the fact that it can absorb a projectile, can be thrown or shattered made me change my mind.

Please stop asking for Grandmaster buffs. Pls stahp.

Pls.

 

[DDutchguy]

Even as an 'or' suggestion, removing the cooldown on ice clone is an insane idea.

OP actually thinks Cryomancer is better than Grandmaster apparently. I disagree.

Anyways, here's the buffs Grandmaster needs -

- b33 should connect with ice ball for a combo
- the EX clone should be 100% consistent when canceled with all strings on hit and on block
- extended pokes and normals like Predator's d4 and Kung Jin's staff should freeze on contact with the ice clone
- EX ice bomb should launch a bit higher or be a bit more plus on hit so you can combo more consistently on it after the run cancel nerf.
- All characters with hitboxes/gravity that make it difficult for Sub Zero to combo them in the corner should be fixed so he can combo them normally.
- 112 should have slightly more push back and be slightly less minus on block.
- 114 should lead to a hard knock down and be more plus on hit.
- b33d4 should be slightly less minus on block

I know the buff list is long but it's just general fixes and some buffs to his currently useless strings. The most important one is making the clone freeze extended weapon based normals. Without this fix, Sub Zero will continue to be stuck with several very, very bad matchups.
If compensation is needed for these buffs, then just nerf the damage on his b2 to do 7% instead of 9% or make f12 do 10% instead of 12%.

I might list what the other 2 variations should get later.

- B33 connecting with iceball midscreen against everyone is a relatively big buff to Sub, not sure of I agree (although there's not much point in me arguing about this since it already connects on females).

- Agreed on ice clone working properly.

- I disagree with extended attacks getting frozen, because most of Grandmaster's bad matchups are based around this fact. Without that, he would have too many favorable matchups on my opinion.

- Disagree, unless it's for Unbreakable only. Grandmaster doesn't need extra potential to follow up with like 242, 123, slide midscreen for even better corner carry.

- Don't play Grandmaster personally, but I guess I agree? Even without hitbox issued the corner combos are hard enough as they are, so hitbox fixes are acceptable.

- Luxury buff, don't see why he would truly need it when he has F12.

- Even still there would be little point, looking at the advantage you already get from F12 and B33D4 as a hard knockdown.

- Eh, it would remove a lot of risk of going for that option midscreen if it became less minus.

I mostly disagree with the extended normals getting a freeze. Grandmaster doesn't need everything to be favorable. His thing is that he has several very good matchups and several unfavorable (not very, very bad; he still has options) ones, which is as it should be.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

 

[Wigy]

Of all the buff request threads. This is the worst. By far.

 

[Wigy]

- extended pokes and normals like Predator's d4 and Kung Jin's staff should freeze on contact with the ice clone.

god forbid clone doesn't counter everything and you actually have to think during neutral.

Some of the sub community...

Also watch that d'vora matchup go 8-2 with this buff.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Where is the 'balance' in that?

 

[Ze Dingo]

Ei, @rubmytaco , read it and weep.

 

[CabooseLeGoose]

 

[Solid]

I hope the don't touch GM. He is strong enough. Maybe they can do something for unbreakable. Only universal buff I want is a faster standing 4 so I can anti air like classic mk's.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Grandmaster shouldn't be touched imo. Maybe b33 xx iceball can work meterlessly, but anything else wouldn't be w great idea. I'm satisfied with Cryo, but I don't play enough of him to know for sure. For unbreakable I want aura to gain meter while blocking(Kotal Kahn), parry recovers instantly against projectiles, and parry stops jump ins. Frost bomb is a good anti air, but I don't think it would be too much for an opponent to be weary of going ape shit on a supposedly defensive variation.

 

[dennycascade]

I heard a good idea yesterday. Make it so that sub zero can get frozen by the clone just like the rest of us.

 

[IrishMantis]

Lolsies

 

[dennycascade]

OP actually thinks Cryomancer is better than Grandmaster apparently. I disagree.

Anyways, here's the buffs Grandmaster needs -

- b33 should connect with ice ball for a combo
- the EX clone should be 100% consistent when canceled with all strings on hit and on block
- extended pokes and normals like Predator's d4 and Kung Jin's staff should freeze on contact with the ice clone
- EX ice bomb should launch a bit higher or be a bit more plus on hit so you can combo more consistently on it after the run cancel nerf.
- All characters with hitboxes/gravity that make it difficult for Sub Zero to combo them in the corner should be fixed so he can combo them normally.
- 112 should have slightly more push back and be slightly less minus on block.
- 114 should lead to a hard knock down and be more plus on hit.
- b33d4 should be slightly less minus on block

I know the buff list is long but it's just general fixes and some buffs to his currently useless strings. The most important one is making the clone freeze extended weapon based normals. Without this fix, Sub Zero will continue to be stuck with several very, very bad matchups.
If compensation is needed for these buffs, then just nerf the damage on his b2 to do 7% instead of 9% or make f12 do 10% instead of 12%.

I might list what the other 2 variations should get later.

Your character has unfavorable MUs? He doesn't beat everyone 6-4? Holy shit Paulo get in here and buff this man immediately, forget all about Jason and kenshi! Remove female hurtboxes JUST for him!

 

[Eddy Wang]

retard retard retard


well, shit, it works

 

[Baconlord]

Are people still pretending this character isn't top tier

 

[JDM]

Are people still pretending this character isn't top tier

the ice clone doesn't work man

 

[M.D.]

Asking for Grandmaster buffs?

How about he's gonna get NERFED INTO THE GROUND especially for you.

The nerve of some people. It almost rivals the threads asking for kitana's f2 to be an overhead.

 

[Ze Dingo]

-snip-

Jesus dude, even the GM mains don't agree with this, chill, goddamn

 

[TQT1995]

Ice clone nerf was the most unnecessary nerf in the history of gaming, it didn't accomplish anything other than nerfing Sub-zero for the sake of nerfing. There are many characters who can blow the clone and land a combo on sub-zero without resorting to meter-burned moves but for some unknown mystical reason Sub-zero got nerfed.

Grandmaster:

1. Clone disappears if Sub-zero blocks 2-hits (instead of 1)
OR
Remove the cooldown on ice-clone

2. Enhanced ice ball freezes opponent even if opponent has already been frozen once by ice-ball/Ice-clone in a single combo.

3. Add Enhanced clone toss.

4. Enhanced clone toss has armor and freezes opponent upon contact.

5. Enhanced clone shatter freezes opponent.


Cryomancer:

This variation is perfectly fine the way it is.


Unplayable:

Lets turn this variation into unbreakable by simple changes.

1. Normal ice aura reduces damage taken.

2. Ex ice aura reduces damage taken and heals sub zero, if sub zero gets hit healing stops.

3. Parry works against jump attacks.



Sub-zero's deception costume plz.

Scrubmaster:
Nerf the damage of the shatter
Remove "Klone disappears on block" Bs


Cryo is good as it is

Unbearable:
Make the damage scale of Ice armour + Ice blast in between a combo the same as applying Ice armour before a combo.
Make Ice armour + Ice blast 2 hits instead of 1 like Erron's gunslinger stance + 2 - good for destroying armour
Make the Ice barrier block overheads and jumping attacks
Ice barrier blocks all projectiles!!!
Increase Ice barrier + frames if the opponent doesn't touch but increase start up frames

Some of your choices are pretty stupid lol

"Enhanced clone shatter freezes opponent." That is stupid in general lol
"Enhanced ice ball freezes opponent even if opponent has already been frozen once by ice-ball/Ice-clone in a single combo." - no
"Enhanced clone toss has armor and freezes opponent upon contact." I like the armour but freezes after the opponent? Just use a Ice ball lol
"Normal ice aura reduces damage taken." Ex arua already does
"Ex ice aura reduces damage taken and heals sub zero, if sub zero gets hit healing stops." no just use blood god

 

[Wigy]

Clone should go away on block. Christ, sub zero community STAHP.

 

[themanDan]

1. Clone disappears if Sub-zero blocks 2-hits (instead of 1)
OR
Remove the cooldown on ice-clone

U mot m8?

 

[RagingRicans]

I agree with all of Ryu's excellent buff suggestions.

No, but seriously, Sub-Zero is in a good spot. Any bad changes can put him over the edge to S+ Or B tier.

Just leave him alone you monsters!