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Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

STK

STK

Beso de Muerte + Fantasía Oscura
naw. i personal use f33 to end combos so the roll into the corner then run up clone. whatever is your preference.
 
STK

STK

Beso de Muerte + Fantasía Oscura
i like either the f33 or f42 slide. i prefer not to take the chance on dropping the combo lol. But its all what your comfortable with. Tom B has been using the f42 slide all day at NWM. Again tho what your comfortable with. Do you guys like using the clone over b1,2 ex ice in combos for the corner? Whats the hit ratio?
 
PwnStar

PwnStar

Noob
123 is much faster than f42 and 1 more hit, but f42 is more damage but less hits. Early in combos you want the most damage for the least amount of hits to avoid scaling. Later in the combo scaling takes a toll and multiple weaker hits can be better sometimes. Sometimes they're interchangeable and you have to look at things like corner carry, meter you give opponent, etc...

Another thing to experiment with, intentionally whiffing weaker hits in a string when they are frozen to max damage and lower hit count. So look for strings with powerful 2nd/3rd hits that we can combo after a freeze.
 
STK

STK

Beso de Muerte + Fantasía Oscura
PwnStar said:
Another thing to experiment with, intentionally whiffing weaker hits in a string when they are frozen to max damage and lower hit count. So look for strings with powerful 2nd/3rd hits that we can combo after a freeze.
Click to expand...
i was thinking about the same thing earler. ending the corner combo with 123 over b1,2 is 1 point less. 39 compared to 40%. I got it to do more than the 40 because one hit wiffed some how. Never got it to wiff again But with needing the 242 to launch after freeze. What do you omit?! But like you said something to mess with later.
 
R

Raptor82

Noob
guys do You have a good answer for Goro? I met quite tricky one who liked to turtle and then mix it with punch walk and stomp, take me to corner and massacre me there. He was in Tigrar something variation. Has anybody figured out that MU?
 
Psyren136

Psyren136

Apprentice
Raptor82 said:
guys do You have a good answer for Goro? I met quite tricky one who liked to turtle and then mix it with punch walk and stomp, take me to corner and massacre me there. He was in Tigrar something variation. Has anybody figured out that MU?
Click to expand...
Tigrar Fury. It's the one with projectiles.

I personally haven't had any trouble with Goros yet, But i haven't played any good ones either. Most basic advice i could give you is to play safe. When he goes for (or you bait) punch walk then ice clone and get a free combo or if he is turtling and you can't open him up try doing the 4-2-ice clone. That usually tricks people the first time you use it against them.
 
R

Raptor82

Noob
thank you I guess I was trying to be too aggressive. But to tell you the truth I thought Goro was hard.....and few minutes later I played insanely good Lao......just WOW. Some ppl just make me want to quit playing this game hehe
 
Psyren136

Psyren136

Apprentice
Raptor82 said:
thank you I guess I was trying to be too aggressive. But to tell you the truth I thought Goro was hard.....and few minutes later I played insanely good Lao......just WOW. Some ppl just make me want to quit playing this game hehe
Click to expand...
If you think you are being too aggressive, then slow down and take the match at the pace you want to set. By playing Sub Zero we have the luxury of controllling the tempo of the match fairly well, Don't forget that.

A lot of tools at your disposal to use with sub. If they are starting to play safe against you and aren't crouch blocking a lot, Then you can do Ice clone-slide(MB). The toss back on slide when knock them into your ice clone if you space it right. That gives you a chance to catch your breath and get another setup going.

Just remember to control the pace of the game and not let the opponent control it.
 
SWonder916

SWonder916

When's DragonBall?
xXstealthflameXx said:
Idk if someone already came up with this, but b2 b2 in the corner is hard online so I use these corner combos instead.
b2 242 1 b12 xx clone walk up nj2 ji2 b12 xx slide (36%)
I also do this with the b33 xx df2 combo.
b33 xx df2 (move back) ji2 b2 242 b12 xx slide (28%)
Click to expand...
Perfect, thanx a lot. Can u also set up another clone after these? I'm not at home to try
 
xXstealthflameXx

xXstealthflameXx

Finding a Main
SWonder916 said:
Perfect, thanx a lot. Can u also set up another clone after these? I'm not at home to try
Click to expand...
Anything ending in slide in the corner you need to a take step back, the tiniest step back, and then clone. Doesn't affect really anything. (Never tried this vs wakeup reptile EX slide)
 
LiangHuBBB

LiangHuBBB

Warrior
Raptor82 said:
guys do You have a good answer for Goro? I met quite tricky one who liked to turtle and then mix it with punch walk and stomp, take me to corner and massacre me there. He was in Tigrar something variation. Has anybody figured out that MU?
Click to expand...
can you upload the replay I would like to see that
 
PwnStar

PwnStar

Noob
Toying around some more. There are definitely safe ways to set up clone smash clones off of combos without losing much damage. My issue mainly is that the dialing the distance is often awkward and telegraphs rather hard. Going for the clone smash set up generally means you have to commit to beating their wake up to use it...but I did crack 54% (no meter) and 61% damage with it (3 meter).

Ways to set up clone smash combos
...any combo, land a clone freeze, tap to dial in desired distance, nj1, nj3 (late as possible), land clone. So practice dialing in the distance (like literally just tap forward in increments or run to body then tap back. I haven't translated the clone freeze vs standing distance yet.)

In testing against opponent sub in corner, flush, both standing...most set ups are three taps away. 24 however can be done closer one or two taps and is probably going to be the most practical way to set it up. 24 pushes you close and puts the opponent higher on hit to allow for combo. So practical combos:
  • clone set up (1-3 taps away), fj2, 24~smash, b12~clone, nj1, fj1, 123~slide
  • clone set up (3 taps away), slight step forward, b2, 4~smash, 1, b12~clone, nj1, fj1, 123~slide
  • clone set up (3 taps away), fj2, b12~smash, b12~clone, nj1, fj1, 123~slide
  • clone set up (3 taps away), fj2, b33~smash, b12~clone, nj1, fj1, 123~slide
Of course with all of these you can tag on an X-Ray move after clone freeze or nj1:

clone set up (3 taps away), slight step forward, b2, 4~smash, 1, b12~clone, nj1, X-RAY = 61% (you can actually omit the 1 and NJ1 and still get 61%)

Corner Clone Freeze Tips
Also found more helpful things with clone freeze since it can get finicky and not work sometimes. b12, 1, d1, 11, 3, and 4 all have practical use in various set ups.
  • b12 is your go to in most everything, but different heights require adjustments. Raw, you typically want their body chest height. Use 1 and d1 as you see fit to better improve this and slightly space you out. Falling bodies will also push you and these can delay the body on the way down to set it up. Early in combos I like to do: 1, d1, b12. It seems the most reliable but requires little hit stun, but fast follow up. EX: b2, b2, 1, d1, b12, etc...
  • 11 can be used very late in combos, particularly after a 242. EX: b2, b2, 242, 11~clone, etc...
  • 3 is weird... but in early combos it can be more reliable than poking various 1's, d1's, to space for b12. EX: b12~EX smash, b2, 3~clone,etc...
  • The most practical use of 4 is listed in the previous combo above. It does highest damage for a single move that can be canceled.
As long as you haven't used a nj1 or freeze before clone, many of these can be helpful for augmenting a combo into a clone set up without sacrificing damage. EX: b2, b2, 242, 11~clone, nj1, nj3.
 
Last edited:
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
PwnStar said:
Toying around some more. There are definitely safe ways to set up clone smash clones off of combos without losing much damage. My issue mainly is that the dialing the distance is often awkward and telegraphs rather hard. Going for the clone smash set up generally means you have to commit to beating their wake up to use it...but I did crack 54% (no meter) and 61% damage with it (3 meter).

Ways to set up clone smash combos
...any combo, land a clone freeze, tap to dial in desired distance, nj1, nj3 (late as possible), land clone. So practice dialing in the distance (like literally just tap forward in increments or run to body then tap back. I haven't translated the clone freeze vs standing distance yet.)

In testing against opponent sub in corner, flush, both standing...most set ups are three taps away. 24 however can be done closer one or two taps and is probably going to be the most practical way to set it up. 24 pushes you close and puts the opponent higher on hit to allow for combo. So practical combos:
  • clone set up (1-3 taps away), fj2, 24~smash, b12~clone, nj1, fj1, 123~slide
  • clone set up (3 taps away), slight step forward, b2, 4~smash, 1, b12~clone, nj1, fj1, 123~slide
  • clone set up (3 taps away), fj2, b12~smash, b12~clone, nj1, fj1, 123~slide
  • clone set up (3 taps away), fj2, b33~smash, b12~clone, nj1, fj1, 123~slide
Of course with all of these you can tag on an X-Ray move after clone freeze or nj1:

clone set up (3 taps away), slight step forward, b2, 4~smash, 1, b12~clone, nj1, X-RAY = 61% (you can actually omit the 1 and NJ1 and still get 61%)

Corner Clone Freeze Tips
Also found more helpful things with clone freeze since it can get finicky and not work sometimes. b12, 1, d1, 11, 3, and 4 all have practical use in various set ups.
  • b12 is your go to in most everything, but different heights require adjustments. Raw, you typically want their body chest height. Use 1 and d1 as you see fit to better improve this and slightly space you out. Falling bodies will also push you and these can delay the body on the way down to set it up. Early in combos I like to do: 1, d1, b12. It seems the most reliable but requires little hit stun, but fast follow up. EX: b2, b2, 1, d1, b12, etc...
  • 11 can be used very late in combos, particularly after a 242. EX: b2, b2, 242, 11~clone, etc...
  • 3 is weird... but in early combos it can be more reliable than poking various 1's, d1's, to space for b12. EX: b12~EX smash, b2, 3~clone,etc...
  • The most practical use of 4 is listed in the previous combo above. It does highest damage for a single move that can be canceled.
As long as you haven't used a nj1 or freeze before clone, many of these can be helpful for augmenting a combo into a clone set up without sacrificing damage. EX: b2, b2, 242, 11~clone, nj1, nj3.
Click to expand...
Copy paste there please. People for some reason ignored this thread, mainly because I think they don't understand how good this is.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/comboing-off-of-clone-toss-shatter.50901/

This needs to be explored much more, good work.
 
SWonder916

SWonder916

When's DragonBall?
xXstealthflameXx said:
Idk if someone already came up with this, but b2 b2 in the corner is hard online so I use these corner combos instead.
b2 242 1 b12 xx clone walk up nj2 ji2 b12 xx slide (36%)
I also do this with the b33 xx df2 combo.
b33 xx df2 (move back) ji2 b2 242 b12 xx slide (28%)
Click to expand...
Man, timing on the 1 before B1, 2 into Clone is killing me. I hate seeing Sub jump back without that clone coming out or missing the B1, 2 altogether
 
xXstealthflameXx

xXstealthflameXx

Finding a Main
SWonder916 said:
Man, timing on the 1 before B1, 2 into Clone is killing me. I hate seeing Sub jump back without that clone coming out or missing the B1, 2 altogether
Click to expand...
Hit the 1 pretty high. Do you want me to make a video? I haven't made a female one yet so I'll be in the lab with him later.
 
Deezxnutz

Deezxnutz

Noob
xXstealthflameXx said:
I spent 20 minutes finding a fix and here it is <3
For females, you can just do
b2 242 1 b12 xx slide (31%)
b2 242 b12 xx EX ice blast nj2 ji2 b12 xx slide
and the b33 combo is the same
Click to expand...
What would ya end with for both male and female characters if ya want to end in a setup for Clone?
 
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