Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

[zoofs]

Hm. Must be a distance thing, right? Shouldn't have anything to do with cancel-advantage.

yeah I'm assuming so

 

[RM Ree]

Looking at it now, the further the clone when shattered, the closer you get to -1 or 0. It doesn't seem to get any better than that though.

 

[Creepy00]

So did any of you guys watched Yomi's stream last night? Tom went over quite a few things with GM from what I heard. I think it would be a good idea if we could sum up his explanations/strategies since he rarely interacts in the sub forums.

 

[STB BroZki]

Any thoughts on how to approach the Quan Chi/ Dvorah matchups?

I use Unbreakable for Dvorah. As for Quan I stick with GM. Keeping Quan in the corner is going to dominate him. It's just those 50/50 shenanigans that could make this match up feel so one sided lol

 

[RM Ree]

I've been making some min/ max changes to my GM play, from better armor shredding with b2/ d2, to neutral/ trip guarding with d4, to inescapable d3 tick throws into clone. B33d4 > slide to ruin wake-up inputs is nice, albeit gimmicky.

Easiest to apply though, inspired by Kung Lao's meter gain from multi-hitting block strings, is using 123 xx clone (in the corner mainly) to get more meter per hit while setting traps. I've even had some luck staggering stand 1's as they're 7f start and 0 on block for things like 1, 1, 123 xx clone. Usually best followed by a d4 hit, as run 1 is guaranteed, and 12 will punish a back dash. Anyone else have some nuance GM tips?

 

[RM Ree]

Corner NJP hit confirm: njp, jip, b2, d1, b12 xx clone, wait... f12, clone

 

[Creepy00]

huh, did sub's 12~ex iceclone combo'd against female characters before the latest two patches?

 

[RM Ree]

Sounds like a safer option than ice ball/ ex ice blast. Only works on females?

 

[Creepy00]

From what I tested, it only works on females for whatever reason. On hit, you can combo for a 23-25% into iceclone set up and on block, you get the plus frame of ex iceclone. However, if your opponent blocks the first hit and gets hit by the low 1(2), ex iceclone will not come out. Instead, you will get regular iceclone or nothing. It can also shred armor and combo with 1,1 or 1,2 iceball.

Now do we know the plus frames cancel of 1,2 ~ex iceclone?

 

[ChaosTheory]

@I GOT HANDS

I didn't want to clutter that Kotal thread. You mentioned Shatter combos after NJK. Which combos are those? I only mess with Shatters at b3,3,d4 range.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

@I GOT HANDS

I didn't want to clutter that Kotal thread. You mentioned Shatter combos after NJK. Which combos are those? I only mess with Shatters at b3,3,d4 range.

For example

B2,B2, 1, 1, B12xxClone, dash forwards, tap backwards once while in dash animation, NjP, NjK, sets up the spacing for a Clone instantaneously as you are coming down from the final NjK and is 100% safe, and perfectly positioned to threaten a 50/50 into Shatter combo, while F12 ain't safe against everyone, Reptile and Kung Lao at the very least.

 

[ChaosTheory]

For example

B2,B2, 1, 1, B12xxClone, dash forwards, tap backwards once while in dash animation, NjP, NjK, sets up the spacing for a Clone instantaneously as you are coming down from the final NjK and is 100% safe, and perfectly positioned to threaten a 50/50 into Shatter combo, while F12 ain't safe against everyone, Reptile and Kung Lao at the very least.

I guess I'll have mess with those Shatters when I'm home. I don't think I've gotten Shatter combos off of NJK before.

And when you say f1,2 isn't safe, you must mean when setting up Clone at Shatter combo distance only, right? Cause normal f1,2~Clone placement is a lot more advantage than NJK.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I guess I'll have mess with those Shatters when I'm home. I don't think I've gotten Shatter combos off of NJK before.

And when you say f1,2 isn't safe, you must mean when setting up Clone at Shatter combo distance only, right? Cause normal f1,2~Clone placement is a lot more advantage than NJK.

NjK is a point less damage or so but the spacing is really consistent and easy which is nice.

And yeah, only for Clone placement. You have to step back Clone to threaten a Shatter 50/50 after F12 ended, and you will be caught by Reptiles exDash every time, whereas NjK ender lets you go straight into Clone as you land. Jump immediately after the NjP but delay the NjK as long as possible for max + frames

 

[FrankieDelicks]

Hello there! I'm completely new to Sub-zero Grandmaster. I have been reading quite a lot in the forums. But I see there have been nerfs and buffs with him......in Cryomancer that is.....but I'm really perplexed as to where to start, with Grandmaster. Also, is it the variation advisable to start with as a greenhorn? Or one of the others rather? Would like a little guidance and some tips to abide by please, at least to use him in play, to be a Contender and not so much of a pushover in my quest to be very good with him. Thank you in advance fellow Grandmasters

 

[ChaosTheory]

NjK is a point less damage or so but the spacing is really consistent and easy which is nice.

And yeah, only for Clone placement. You have to step back Clone to threaten a Shatter 50/50 after F12 ended, and you will be caught by Reptiles exDash every time, whereas NjK ender lets you go straight into Clone as you land. Jump immediately after the NjP but delay the NjK as long as possible for max + frames

Ok, it makes sense to me now. NJK is better for Shatter combos, but then it seems f1,2 is better in every other way.

More damage, more advantage, more oppressive against the corner and then more ways to knock the opponent into Clone and loop.

I guess the only time I would use NJK is when I can't safely set up after b3,3,d4 for Shatters.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Ok, it makes sense to me now. NJK is better for Shatter combos, but then it seems f1,2 is better in every other way.

More damage, more advantage, more oppressive against the corner and then more ways to knock the opponent into Clone and loop.

I guess the only time I would use NJK is when I can't safely set up after b3,3,d4 for Shatters.

Hell F12 is arguably better for Shatter combo's I believe against the majority of the cast, just some you need NjK to make it safe

 

[RM Ree]

B33d4 ender sets the distance for shatter as well, right? This is a fairly common ender for me.

 

[ChaosTheory]

B33d4 ender sets the distance for shatter as well, right? This is a fairly common ender for me.

Up to now, I've just been trying to learn to play the game in general (I'm late), not worrying so much about optimizing. That said, when I decide I want to take a shot at a Shatter combo, that's the only time I don't end in f1,2, but b3,3,d4 instead.

If I keep on working on optimizing and find that I can Shatter combo off of f1,2 like Hands mentioned... I don't know why I'd continue to end in b3,3,d4.

 

[RM Ree]

The corner throw into clone combo I use ends in b33d4, works reliably on females, easy execution. Throw (freeze) ji2, b2, 242, b33d4, clone.

 

[crosshair271]

Up to now, I've just been trying to learn to play the game in general (I'm late), not worrying so much about optimizing. That said, when I decide I want to take a shot at a Shatter combo, that's the only time I don't end in f1,2, but b3,3,d4 instead.

If I keep on working on optimizing and find that I can Shatter combo off of f1,2 like Hands mentioned... I don't know why I'd continue to end in b3,3,d4.

Try these to start yourself out. I've tweaked them a little since then but it's still a good start.
I tried B33,D4 to setup shatters and the distance is just shy of what is needed. Depending on the combo I do NJP, BJ1, NJK or NJP, FJ1, BJ1, NJK.
As far as F12 to setup shatters that definitely shouldn't be possible because it moves you forward. Frame advantage yeah it would be excellent but I haven't figured out how to get the distance.

The corner throw into clone combo I use ends in b33d4, works reliably on females, easy execution. Throw (freeze) ji2, b2, 242, b33d4, clone.

If you practice the timing you can F12 on females with out having to step back at all.
(Back throw into Klone, tech, run, JI1, 242, NJP, FJ2, FJ2, F12) *Use JI1 if you did a neutral or back throw into Klone.
(Forward throw into Klone, tech, run, JI2, B2, 242, F12) *Use JI2 if you did a forward throw into Klone, it gives more hit advantage for the B2.
You have to find the timing of the jump in punches and F12. It sometimes varies but I always wait for the peak moment their legs are tilted back to Klone.

I've been experimenting and I've discovered that JI2 typically gives a better setup for F12 enders instead of JI1. I think it's because it has more hit advantage which gives a better positioning for F12.

 

[FrankieDelicks]

Sooooo, nobody ready to help a brother out....

 

[crosshair271]

Sooooo, nobody ready to help a brother out....

If you're just starting I'd say Grandmaster is a safe choice. The Klone helps people make themselves safe when learning. After that I'd graduate to Cryomancer and then Unbreakable.

If you want to choose based on play style.

Grandmaster is a technical balanced style. It can be offensive or defensive. It is mainly focused on trapping the opponent with the Klone. After you have practiced you can trap the opponent in the corner with the Klone and get massive damage. Mid screen damage is okay, corner screen is where you want the opponent all the time to get huge damage. Klone makes a lot of things safe for you.

Cryomancer is an offensive style. It doesn't particularly rely on the corner. It has the Hammer as an extra overhead and the EX Hammer leads to bigger combos. F4, 2, 1+2 combos which lead to easy massive damage. He has some sword combos which add damage or range. Easier to open up the opponent but making yourself safe isn't as easy as Grandmaster with the Klone.

Unbreakable is a technical offensive style. Once again doesn't solely rely on the corner. It has the Barrier for catching people doing attacks or for interrupting strings. It is a more risky version of the Klone and does not parry jumping attacks. You cannot just throw it out, you have to use it wisely and very carefully. The best part of this style is Aura. Aura nullifies chip, EX Aura nullifies chip and reduces damage you receive, when you do Burst with Aura active the Burst does more damage and resets Aura. You can also use the Aura moves for string cancels that can lead to bigger combos or frame advantage for a mix up. Although Aura lets you cancel strings to make bigger combos the damage scaling makes it barely worth it. This is why most people still don't care for Unbreakable because it's very technical and high risk low reward.

 

[FrankieDelicks]

@crosshair271, thank you soo much! Really appreciate the info. But, if you or anyone could kindly tell me the string to be particular on. Or is the combo thread that Mr Tom Brady did still valid?

 

[FrankieDelicks]

Sorry I mean "strings" to focus on and the ones to eventually advance to. Or a valid "recent post patch" Tutorial somewhere perhaps?

 

[kageman]

Just wanted to say that this guide is a fantastic template on going through characters and variations! Thanks for the hard work in putting this together (even if I'm not a Sub Zero main yet this makes me want to play him haha).