Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

[RagingRicans]

@JDM Could you share your opinion on the Sub- zero vs Quan Match up?

I think people are underestimating the power of Corner and slide.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Yeah Quan beats sub convincingly, but I think it's only a matter of time till Quan is adjusted. I think summoner quan and swarm dvorah are bad for sub. The swarm queen matchup is retarted. I guess with all the variations and various tool kits across the cast there is bound to be some retarted matchups for everyone. Except Quan and temp lao that is.

 

[RM Ree]

D'Vorah is bad for GM, but I think Cryo goes even.

 

[Creepy00]

Hmm, Cryo does do better than GM against D'vorah, but I wouldn't say Cryo goes even. D'vorah has better normals and pressure than Cryo Sub.

 

[JDM]

@JDM Could you share your opinion on the Sub- zero vs Quan Match up?

I think people are underestimating the power of Corner and slide.

bums. nope

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Hmm, Cryo does do better than GM against D'vorah, but I wouldn't say Cryo goes even. D'vorah has better normals and pressure than Cryo Sub.

I think cryo is 6-4 dvorah. Just depends on meter management for sub, f4 into hammer is safe against dvorah cuz her reversals are shit. What hurts sub most in this matchup is ice ball trades won't work with dvorahs ground burst.

 

[RM Ree]

I'd take a 6-4 vs Tanya. Maybe I don't play the good ones. I won't go into detail since it's not the MU thread, but Cryo is for sure better than GM, at least vs. Kobu.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I'd like to know more about dealing with ermac(souls of course). Mainly when to pop out Klone. I can stuff his flying bullshit with the Klone toss, but ermacs d3 is retarted online. The lag stops me from punishes that should be making. Like a blocked teleport into ex teleport is a thing online.

 

[RM Ree]

Lmao blocked tp > ex tp too strong!

That thing only has armor on wake up. You can end with f12 clone> b2 in the corner. B2 will put SZ in front of clone so if Ermac ex teleports on wake up, he'll freeze on the clone behind you.

Any teleport character is a bad MU for GM, but Ermac is manageable. Maybe not ideal, and maybe not online, but not as hard as I thought it was.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Lmao blocked tp > ex tp too strong!

That thing only has armor on wake up. You can end with f12 clone> b2 in the corner. B2 will put SZ in front of clone so if Ermac ex teleports on wake up, he'll freeze on the clone behind you.

Any teleport character is a bad MU for GM, but Ermac is manageable. Maybe not ideal, and maybe not online, but not as hard as I thought it was.

Yeah, cryo is probably better for teleports. I'll try to bait a tele and use ex ice burst and get their ass in the corner. I mean if the clone forces them to teleport it serves it's purpose right? And yeah thanks for the advice on b2 in the corner I'll lab it with all teleport characters, and in corner that can save me meter and let me keep the corner! I think I tend to have trouble in any matchup that I can't ice ball trade.

 

[RM Ree]

Funny tidbit, Kenshi's full screen tele-throws have an invisible projectile that ex ice blast will beat clean. Probably best used on a read.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Funny tidbit, Kenshi's full screen tele-throws have an invisible projectile that ex ice blast will beat clean. Probably best used on a read.

Oh christ and I thought kenshi players already has enough things to complain about.

 

[STRYKIE]

Funny tidbit, Kenshi's full screen tele-throws have an invisible projectile that ex ice blast will beat clean. Probably best used on a read.

In Kenjutsu you mean? Or does this property apply to all of Kenshi's variations at some point or another?

 

[RM Ree]

Yes, in Kenjutsu or wherever he has that type of move. I don't mean for things like tele-flurry.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Yeah Quan beats sub convincingly, but I think it's only a matter of time till Quan is adjusted. I think summoner quan and swarm dvorah are bad for sub. The swarm queen matchup is retarted. I guess with all the variations and various tool kits across the cast there is bound to be some retarted matchups for everyone. Except Quan and temp lao that is.

I agree, GMSub is balanced around the footsies tool that is Clone, it does absolutely nothing here. This is definitely another one of his hardest match ups.

Funny tidbit, Kenshi's full screen tele-throws have an invisible projectile that ex ice blast will beat clean. Probably best used on a read.

Does this mean that another Kenshi could reflect it, making Kenjutsu grab himself, and then cancel the grab as per usual when he gets hit during his grab animation? I gotta test this lol

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I agree, GMSub is balanced around the footsies tool that is Clone, it does absolutely nothing here. This is definitely another one of his hardest match ups.

Even with cryo, DVorah is rough. I guess everyone has bad matchups. I'm really happy with the sub zero we got especially compared to mk9 sub. Jesus. The only thing I want for sub is for b33 ice ball to connect midscreen. Other than that he's pretty strong imo.

 

[llabslb]

Why is the hit box on ex ice burst so shit

 

[Creepy00]

I wouldn't say it is $hit, but it could a little better to be honest. My problem with Ex Ice burst is that it can be deceptive to whether or not it will hit an airborne opponent. And yes, I understand that Ex ice burst doesn't have a vertical hitbox at all, but there are times that it will actually hit the opponent clean doing a crossover jip or Njp or Njk and others when it does not. Now, I mostly use it after a f33 to catch my opponent from pressing buttons in an attempt to punish me.

 

[llabslb]

I can't rely on it when an opponent is trying to jump over. I get punished for it
And waste a bar.

 

[Creepy00]

Yea, same here. I been punished numerous times by a crossover Jip when I would wake up with ex iceburst.

 

[RM Ree]

To be fair, I do cross over jip to avoid a lot of other characters armored wake-ups. And ex frost bomb even works vs. that tactic if the jumps are improperly timed.

It's practically a safe armored launcher in all but a few cases. It sucks that the vertical hit box isn't reliable, but we're not Capt. Commando after all.

 

[boba_buster]

S1 is great for crossovers once you get the timing down

 

[darthbrooks]

It sucks that the vertical hit box isn't reliable, but we're not Capt. Commando after all.

Now that you mention it, I feel we deserve a +50 on block capt corridor type blizzard move that freezes.

 

[RM Ree]

F4 xx ex statue, what are the frames on this thing? It doesn't jail or anything, but +2 or +3? Combined with the statue, I'm shredding Jax's ex dash fist with a b2 follow up.

Also, I guess GM players are using b33 ex ice blast in the corner, to stay safe on block. If you're one of those people, why not use b33 ex frost bomb? Still safe-ish, no gap between low and freeze, way more damage (b33 xx frost bomb, b2, d1, b12 xx clone, njp, jip, f12). If we're spending meter at all, this seems like the way to go.

 

[llabslb]

F4 xx ex statue, what are the frames on this thing? It doesn't jail or anything, but +2 or +3? Combined with the statue, I'm shredding Jax's ex dash fist with a b2 follow up.

Also, I guess GM players are using b33 ex ice blast in the corner, to stay safe on block. If you're one of those people, why not use b33 ex frost bomb? Still safe-ish, no gap between low and freeze, way more damage (b33 xx frost bomb, b2, d1, b12 xx clone, njp, jip, f12). If we're spending meter at all, this seems like the way to go.

I've been blown for ex ice burst once with set up. Maybe I set it up wrong maybe my opponent was really jumpy or the hit box on the ex ice burst is smaller. Or maybe I'm just talking a lot of bullshit.