Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

[I GOT HANDS]

@Houndovhell Here is what I said earlier

I can't help but think the Shatter corner combos are really impractical. I mean, I guess they are useful for the times when your opponent has no meter, and you have the clone set up right in front on them from a hard knock down anyway, and can just freely go in with the overhead and if you hit them in time the clone is up to shatter it. But in these situations, you've landed at least 1 combo to get them there (probably 2), your opponent is going to be on low health, and you have them in the corner with a clone in front of them and no meter regardless, which is a horrible place for anyone to be. It feels a bit just like a "win more" button. I guess impractical isn't the word for it, it works fine when it works, but just really niche in usefulness. Am I missing something here?

So I feel the same that it's pretty niche. However, until there is something else worthwhile to be talking about, it is absolutely nothing but beneficial to iron out the most efficient ways to use these niche combos. You can't complain about people not discussing other things, while offering absolutely no talking points yourself to further discussion. If you have something to contribute or talk about, please do. And if you aren't going to do this, then let people discuss Grandmaster tech in the only thread dedicated to learning Grandmaster. It shouldn't really be an issue.

 

[Houndovhell]

@Houndovhell Here is what I said earlier



So I feel the same that it's pretty niche. However, until there is something else worthwhile to be talking about, it is absolutely nothing but beneficial to iron out the most efficient ways to use these niche combos. You can't complain about people not discussing other things, while offering absolutely no talking points yourself to further discussion. If you have something to contribute or talk about, please do. And if you aren't going to do this, then let people discuss Grandmaster tech in the only thread dedicated to learning Grandmaster. It shouldn't really be an issue.

'
So we agree. Shatter - very specific, but still useful to know soemthing universal. Discussion - wish there were something different or possibly something practical to work on, but this is fine

If I had anything to give for discussion, Id say, we don't really have a GOOD forward advancing punish (save the slide) and I wish we had atleast something that wouldn't leave us at neg on block :/ even though I'm stuck mostly using b12~clone

I would also like to invite xbox one players to add me, I really want people to play and get better with

 

[I GOT HANDS]

'

If I had anything to give for discussion, Id say, we don't really have a GOOD forward advancing punish (save the slide) and I wish we had atleast something that wouldn't leave us at neg on block :/ even though I'm stuck mostly using b12~clone

That's actually a really good talking point. I find it makes Raiden especially safe against us because of the range a lot of his strings leave him at. Still not sure how to play around this.

 

[Houndovhell]

That's actually a really good talking point. I find it makes Raiden especially safe against us because of the range a lot of his strings leave him at. Still not sure how to play around this.

Yep, its been bugging me for ages. Played against a dvorrah and all he said was "DUDE YOURE NOT PUNISHING GOD YOU SUCK" when the pushback left subzero out of range. Not like we have cassies b1 >.> (ps, I am trying to remember what move it was he was talking about, no luck so far)

But tomorrow (its late) I will be going into training with subby vs raiden, record his mainstream strings, and work on ideas and stuff. I will update asap, if you want to pm me, feel free to do so looking forward to finally giving you guys some help. Used to do a lot for mk9 but apparently everyone forgot about me and doesn't pay too much attention to me xD

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I'd love to see what you come back with as this is my biggest problem with Sub at the moment, if you can work out some good course of plays to respond to these pushbacks, please PM or tag me in whatever musings you come back with

 

[RM Ree]

Iirc, I think our best punishes out of normal range are f4 xx ice ball, raw slide, and run up 11 xx ice ball.

Right now, I'm working on uploading some videos to show practical application of the shatter combos/ where I landed them in online ranked games.

EDIT:
vs. Quan Chi, B2 starter -
https://www.facebook.com/richard.mirabal.54/videos/10207008557598311/?l=8991692616134740491

vs. Sub-Zero, (jip) b 33 starter -
https://www.facebook.com/richard.mirabal.54/videos/10207008588159075/?l=8896187702080841285

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Iirc, I think our best punishes out of normal range are f4 xx ice ball, raw slide, and run up 11 xx ice ball.

Right now, I'm working on uploading some videos to show practical application of the shatter combos/ where I landed them in online ranked games.

EDIT:
vs. Quan Chi, B2 starter -
https://www.facebook.com/richard.mirabal.54/videos/10207008557598311/?l=8991692616134740491

vs. Sub-Zero, (jip) b 33 starter -
https://www.facebook.com/richard.mirabal.54/videos/10207008588159075/?l=8896187702080841285

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Think your facebook videos are set to private bro

 

[RM Ree]

Should be public now. First time using the PS4 share to post. Forgive the issues, they're growing pains.

 

[Nu-Skoool]

Shatter combos aren't niche at all. You can setup the proper clone spacing easily but you have to hit 24xx shatter at the top of b2's ground bounce and if you don't you can opt for 1,1 instead of b1,2.

Trust me when I say that I literally sat in training looping the same setups over and over off overhead and b33 on both females and males with the only failure being my execution.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I do find spacing is relevant for 24xxShatters, that being said the set up for it is perfect naturally off a NjP, BjP, NjK. I think it's the best combo if you are just going to immediately go in with an overhead. You might need to take half a step forward to connect the B2 after cloning, but that is it. It is also spaced far back enough that you can mixup with B33 or F33 and still connect a 1, B12 very consistently, for 48% off a low.

 

[Nu-Skoool]

Actually you can get the proper spacing off just njp, njk.

Ok so off 242 on an opponent that hasn't been bounced or juggled you can do njk bjp, njk and setup a safely spaced clone. I've tested it against reptiles 6 frame ex slide. This lets us setup the right spacing off our b12xx freeze punishes.

Off of corner clone combos you can take a small step forward after the clone, to about where subs hand just touches the opponents foot, then njp, njk. I've got this pretty consistent.

Either way you can still run in for throw, b33 and get a near max distance b2.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Actually you can get the proper spacing off just njp, njk.

And get 2% less damage tho, although slightly less safe, still pretty safe against a lot of the cast

Either way you can still run in for throw, b33 and get a near max distance b2.

Do you guys prefer B33, of F33? F33 has a quicker startup, reach to begin it from behind clone, and more damage. Also, juggles them higher making combo easier, but thats just an execution thing I guess. On the downside, I think a quick opponent may be able to block low in time, and take about 8% chip. What are the thoughts here

 

[RVB]

And get 2% less damage tho, although slightly less safe, still pretty safe against a lot of the cast



Do you guys prefer B33, of F33? F33 has a quicker startup, reach to begin it from behind clone, and more damage. Also, juggles them higher making combo easier, but thats just an execution thing I guess. On the downside, I think a quick opponent may be able to block low in time, and take about 8% chip. What are the thoughts here

As a punishing move f33 is way better than say b12 or f33 especially online but your execution needs to be on point, as for b33 it depends how you condition your opponent.
If you do b3 into b2 and they decide to respect that then go for the b33 on the next setup.

 

[Nu-Skoool]

And get 2% less damage tho, although slightly less safe, still pretty safe against a lot of the cast



Do you guys prefer B33, of F33? F33 has a quicker startup, reach to begin it from behind clone, and more damage. Also, juggles them higher making combo easier, but thats just an execution thing I guess. On the downside, I think a quick opponent may be able to block low in time, and take about 8% chip. What are the thoughts here

I'm pretty sure njp, njk is always safe whether spaced out or not. Now on clone shatter combos youre still cranking out massive damage. I don't mind a little less damage for safety and positioning. Take this from a long time SF4 Akuma player. Now here's the cool part if you delay your overhead you can do the original b2, b2, 1,1 b12 clone combo. So if you begin your pressure to where the clone disappears before shatter you still have an option into clone.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I meant to say, "slightly more safe".

I don't mind a little less damage for safety and positioning.

Well, I mean at the end of the day, you are either safe or you aren't, and against the large majority of opponents, NJP BJP NJK is safe, sets up the clone perfectly, does 2% extra damage, and times really well into wake up pressure. Why wouldn't we use this ender? Against people who can punish ill slow down a little and end in NJP NJK, buy otherwise... No sense in not taking free damage

Now here's the cool part if you delay your overhead you can do the original b2, b2, 1,1 b12 clone combo. So if you begin your pressure to where the clone disappears before shatter you still have an option into clone.

But why tho? Is this for of they have low health and you want a slightly more consistent combo? Because for all other purposes, shatter can just be ended in HNK and still do 10% more damage than a B2 string

 

[Nu-Skoool]

No you're absolutely right. Use njp bjp njk on characters with slow reversals. Which is what I was saying earlier.

As for the second part of your post I mention you that because if you delay your pressure and go for shatter, the clone could be gone by the time you get to ice bomb. So instead of wasting your conversion you can opt for the original corner bnb to maintain spacing and pressure.

 

[RM Ree]

Played a lot of online matches with an Erron Black (Outlaw) today. I think it's worth listing all the viable corner mix up strings we have that work with shatter/ freeze. This guy was pretty hip to the match up and was blocking almost every b2/ b33 mixup I threw, to the point where I was questioning if I had tells or not. Anyway we've got...

- 12 xx shatter/ ice ball (high low)
- f33 xx shatter/ ex ice blast (high low)
- b33 xx shatter/ ice ball (low low)
- b2 xx shatter (OH)

Notably, 12 can be used from b2 range for a lunging low. Can anything else be used?

 

[Wam-Zlay]

I bet this is already known but i got a 45% Grandmaster 1 Meter Corner Combo

nvm ive just seen the 48% meterless corner combo

 

[Matix218]

Guys, I am learning grandmaster sub and I have a question

What is better/more reliable off of a 11> freeze punish midscreen?
Jip 242, rc, 123> slide

Or

Jip, 242, rc, 1, f42> slide

I am having trouble being consistent with the rc, 1, f42> slide and the rc, 123> slide is very consistent and does 1% more damage and seems to carry further toward the corner. But occasionally when I do the 123> slide ender the slide whiffs. Is there a timing or trick to make the 123> slide hit every time? Id prefer to not use the 1, f42> slide if I can have the 123 slide work every time.

Thanks!

 

[nfdsallwd]

after run i delay 123 a bit

 

[mrsz]

Guys, I am learning grandmaster sub and I have a question

What is better/more reliable off of a 11> freeze punish midscreen?
Jip 242, rc, 123> slide

Or

Jip, 242, rc, 1, f42> slide

I am having trouble being consistent with the rc, 1, f42> slide and the rc, 123> slide is very consistent and does 1% more damage and seems to carry further toward the corner. But occasionally when I do the 123> slide ender the slide whiffs. Is there a timing or trick to make the 123> slide hit every time? Id prefer to not use the 1, f42> slide if I can have the 123 slide work every time.

Thanks!

You should be doing 123 -> slide for the wall carry. If your execution is good you should listen to @Qwark28 and do 242, Run 1, Run,123 -> slide.

 

[Nu-Skoool]

Actually because 1 is so fast and 2 having a nice hitbox, you can run up quite a bit of distance and do 1, 123xx slide instead of doing 2 run cancels.

@Ree301 sounds to me like you were just being read very easily. Keep in mind that things like Subs 17 frame overhead is just short of that time span where you can react to a move consistently and that's if you're looking specifically for that one move. You have to give your opponent different looks and sometimes deviate from optimal strategies just to keep your opponent honest.

 

[RM Ree]

Yeah man I do get hungry for that corner B2. It quickly turned into grab > clone freeze shenanigans (which we should get into here sometime). The set ended 25-5 because some people don't know when to quit.

 

[Leito360]

Iirc, I think our best punishes out of normal range are f4 xx ice ball, raw slide, and run up 11 xx ice ball.

Right now, I'm working on uploading some videos to show practical application of the shatter combos/ where I landed them in online ranked games.

EDIT:
vs. Quan Chi, B2 starter -
https://www.facebook.com/richard.mirabal.54/videos/10207008557598311/?l=8991692616134740491

vs. Sub-Zero, (jip) b 33 starter -
https://www.facebook.com/richard.mirabal.54/videos/10207008588159075/?l=8896187702080841285

Could you write the inputs you used for those combos in the first video?

Does the last combo works on females?

 

[RM Ree]

Inputs for the first combo are
B2, 24 xx shatter, b12 xx clone, jnp, jip, b12 xx slide.

And technically, yes. That last combo will work on females. But it's much more practical to input b12 fast as possible then go for ex ice blast rather than to try to hit the b12 xx clone sweet spot.

I'm gonna play around with our clone, run up throw mix ups a bit tonight. Does anyone know how to set up the clone so even a throw break freezes opponents?