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Sub-Zero General Discussion

They neutered him. Beta Subzero was super fun. Was I expecting him to stay the same? No. But damn man.

Does no damage unless he has sareena and even then hes barely getting to 40.
Long cool down on clone.
Everyone can just stand in clone and not get frozen.
Can't even block after clone.
Has no staggers
B2 laughably slow.
B3 is pretty useless.
His mid is slower.
No mix ups.
Doesn't have a ninja hood.

Meanwhile lemon characters such as Baraka & Raiden can do 50% with ease.
I just look at it this way, if your competing use Sub on his better matchups and use pockets for A+ tiers like Raiden, Kenshi, Baraka, Tanya, Ashrah, Johnny.
I honestly don't think he will get any meaningful buffs. In the past NRS chopped his D off and never surgically fixed him.
I do think he is tournament viable and can win vs top characters. With Kameos you can fill his gaps or amplify his better strategy.
Obviously he works harder than top tiers and has to fill gaps that they don't have to with Kameos
I hope they buff him slightly but I'm not holding my breath.
I'll use Reptile, Mileena, and Rain on the side
 

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Which skin are y’all rocking?

I use the default skin with that dark cyan and white palette and mask-less.

Sub is top tier for drip at least
I still use the default skin. I love the royal blue on it. Sometimes I use the robe looking one. I always keep Sub-Zero blue/a shade of blue. So I don’t really like the skins from the scorpion event.

They should’ve gave him a blue flame variant or something :p
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I just look at it this way, if your competing use Sub on his better matchups and use pockets for A+ tiers like Raiden, Kenshi, Baraka, Tanya, Ashrah, Johnny.
I honestly don't think he will get any meaningful buffs. In the past NRS chopped his D off and never surgically fixed him.
I do think he is tournament viable and can win vs top characters. With Kameos you can fill his gaps or amplify his better strategy.
Obviously he works harder than top tiers and has to fill gaps that they don't have to with Kameos
I hope they buff him slightly but I'm not holding my breath.
I'll use Reptile, Mileena, and Rain on the side
Perhaps, but I do think he will improve. Sub was nerfed pre release in MKX too, but he still got his pokes buffed, as well as a lot of no hurtbox moves getting nerfed. In X and 11 he was A+ or whatever semantics for the tier below the top tier. MK1 Sub has the skeleton of a functional character, I think they will fix him. As infuriating as his treatment was compared to the other beta characters is, I think it’ll be fine in the long run.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Also gotta say I love how easy his brutalities are. Any time you end a match with a combo you can easily get the slide, you can easily get the deadly vapors one, same with klone punch. Easy to send a message when necessary lol
 

Eji1700

Kombatant
It looks likely. Him and Lao are kinda crazy right now.
Personally i'd actually say let it rock (to some extent), although I do think people are sleeping on cyrax bomb setups still so he's only going to get worse. I'm all for things being more powerful rather than less. But if kicking the copter in the teeth a little gets people to experiment and branch out more, great.

Naturally anything letting sub zero do damage though has to go.......
 

BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
Damn I think kitana has to be one of the worst sub match ups…not only does she have range it seems like she has an answer for everything In his kit…
 

BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
I don’t think she gives him any problems. Sub-Zero can counter zone her pretty well. And she can’t do much once cornered.
Eh her projectiles are pretty solid had solid range and you don’t win the trade. She also has a half screen low sweep etc
 

BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
Ashria seems like an oof March for him as well…out ranges and I havnt found anything to counter her mid pressure either
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I think the Mileena matchup is pretty fun. She's not great at getting in on him without getting risky if he has a life lead and vise versa. They can make each other miserable but in a fun way. I mean I wince every time she starts to hit me because I know it's gonna hurt, but ya know thats MK1 and not a Mileena thing.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Serena Meter drain in the corner with Ice Clone looks so gross. Is there a way to set this up reliably?
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Serena Meter drain in the corner with Ice Clone looks so gross. Is there a way to set this up reliably?
I use Sonya more than Sareena lately, but I’d usually do it near the end of my combos like during the slide animation, then either place klone or get ready for their wake up or whatever. Have you seen a specific setup to make it seem super gross? Imo klone goes away too fast for it to be what makes them lose an appreciable amount of meter, I have more luck backing up to where BF2 can hit and they’re afraid to jump because of air klone. I tend to steal more meter that way.
 

Eji1700

Kombatant
Derping around with various kameo's more, and I keep coming back to kano. Ambushes feel like they really help sub's gameplan, and kano being the diet zoner kameo is also something sub doesn't mind.

I've also noticed there's a gimmicky as shit setup where you hit a slide, call kano ball and hold it, jump over them and clone, release the ball. If it hits it barrels them into the clone for a combo, but it's heavily scaled and with shit gravity so i'm not sure what you can do.

Normally I'd see this as the perfect opportunity to do some nasty setup, but i'm really having a hard time with that on sub. I feel like the core of that is either ice clone (discussed to death) or deadly vapors. For vapors, I just can't seem to find the right timing to screw with their wakeup. I know i've seen setups, but it looks like it's super conditional, which is a shame.

Honestly the oddest thing about sub's kit is that by default you're probably ending almost all your combos in slide, and yet due to sub's awkward strings and setups, point blank is probably a disadvantage for him.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Derping around with various kameo's more, and I keep coming back to kano. Ambushes feel like they really help sub's gameplan, and kano being the diet zoner kameo is also something sub doesn't mind.

I've also noticed there's a gimmicky as shit setup where you hit a slide, call kano ball and hold it, jump over them and clone, release the ball. If it hits it barrels them into the clone for a combo, but it's heavily scaled and with shit gravity so i'm not sure what you can do.

Normally I'd see this as the perfect opportunity to do some nasty setup, but i'm really having a hard time with that on sub. I feel like the core of that is either ice clone (discussed to death) or deadly vapors. For vapors, I just can't seem to find the right timing to screw with their wakeup. I know i've seen setups, but it looks like it's super conditional, which is a shame.

Honestly the oddest thing about sub's kit is that by default you're probably ending almost all your combos in slide, and yet due to sub's awkward strings and setups, point blank is probably a disadvantage for him.
Iv still been using the strategy of getting life lead and zoning. You’re way more likely to get freezes from klone and iceball trades if they have to chase you down. Sonya is a great kameo for him cause of launching slide when you’re blowing up a gap or even waking up, aside from more obvious things like better combo damage and meterless launch of F12.
 
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BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
Derping around with various kameo's more, and I keep coming back to kano. Ambushes feel like they really help sub's gameplan, and kano being the diet zoner kameo is also something sub doesn't mind.

I've also noticed there's a gimmicky as shit setup where you hit a slide, call kano ball and hold it, jump over them and clone, release the ball. If it hits it barrels them into the clone for a combo, but it's heavily scaled and with shit gravity so i'm not sure what you can do.

Normally I'd see this as the perfect opportunity to do some nasty setup, but i'm really having a hard time with that on sub. I feel like the core of that is either ice clone (discussed to death) or deadly vapors. For vapors, I just can't seem to find the right timing to screw with their wakeup. I know i've seen setups, but it looks like it's super conditional, which is a shame.

Honestly the oddest thing about sub's kit is that by default you're probably ending almost all your combos in slide, and yet due to sub's awkward strings and setups, point blank is probably a disadvantage for him.
I like this…I’ll definitely give Kano another look here soon.

off topic I’m definitely noticing people still get mad nervous about ice clone and bf2…apparently I’m just having matches where I’m (not purposely) running down the clock cause I refuse to step into my opponents person space..

the key ladies and gents is to get the life lead and make people play your way…

this is due to subs faults his un safe strings, low damage etc

what’s the old saying? When life gives your lemons? No problem mk1…I want said Lemons..I love lemons …but my opponent will have to bring ‘em to ME…not vice Versa.
 

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Playing Sub-Zero makes me think this game is awful. It’s probably good for people who play top tier, but as Sub-Zero, this game is downright scrubby.

The fact they made him underpowered with all the bs in the game is a slap in the face to sub-zero players.
 
Playing Sub-Zero makes me think this game is awful. It’s probably good for people who play top tier, but as Sub-Zero, this game is downright scrubby.

The fact they made him underpowered with all the bs in the game is a slap in the face to sub-zero players.
Yeah I'm hearing from DAB and a few pro players that they plan on doing a character patch to fix some characters. Hopefully it's slight fixes for Sub instead of a bunch of Major buffs/ adjustments.
If they make him super good the community will shift from Baraka/Cyrax is broke to Sub Zero.
I just want him to be good and have a better clone that you can hit them into. I'm fine if they make clone go away if you throw them into it, maybe give him a 13f mid starter