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General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Try not to let him get away with njp a lot , try to stay sweep distance and whiff punish , if your using GM get him in the corner and body his ass , be careful tho as he has great armored wake ups , stay on the defensive. He has good overheads so don't let him catch u blocking low
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Amplified$hotz said:
How do you guys play the Kung Jin matchup?
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Kung Jin can punish every clone cancel (besides f4 xx clone) with b1. Irregardless of the damage the punish does, it takes most clone cancels away from Sub, which puts the MU in Kung Jin's favor. He's got a few other metered punishes too, like Bo Spin and ex low chaka-rang.

That's not to say it's horrible though. You should force the opponent to prove he knows the MU and go from there. Once they do, use ex clone cancels and attempt punish the b1 pokes to make a mind game out of it. Or even refrain from canceling strings into clone, then use an armored move to punish a reaction. Once Kung Jin is cornered, Sub Zero can win same as always.

Or you could use Cryo and just dish out 40% per touch, whichever.
 
DarksydeDash

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
I fought a spectral once and it seems to be a losing matchup in his favor. He does not care about the clone, your ice ball, shatter, etc. All he has to is get a life lead and run out the clock.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I'm not positive, but I think you can back dash/ armor most of Spectral's fly cancel pressure. I don't think it jails.
 
ArmageddonUMK

ArmageddonUMK

LongJohnCena
RM Ree said:
I'm not positive, but I think you can back dash/ armor most of Spectral's fly cancel pressure. I don't think it jails.
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Correct there's a gaps between any string cancelled into flight, as well as gaps between each hit of the magic series. Also, a well-timed d1 can knock ermac out of flight before the flight string even begins if ermac used f21 or b12 to cancel into flight. But it's a tough matchup for sub zero regardless. I'd say cryomancer is the best option against all ermac variations so you can properly punish the unsafe God. Clone is a non factor against him for the most part and unbreakable should be renamed unplayable so yeah definitely cryomancer.

Source: I play spectral.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I agree with the Cryo pick vs Ermac. But the MU calls for special consideration, even using Subs punish variation. Typically, Cryo can hit harder than an opponent so it's wise so save meter for your own combos instead of breaking.

Against Ermac, it's complicated. Do you wait for the unsafe God to be unsafe? Or do you break because he's dishing out as much damage as Cryo? I think Ermac does that damage meterless too... Tough MU.
 
Creepy00

Creepy00

Kombatant
Idk, I don't think GM sub does bad against Ermac in general. Although, Mystic Ermac could become a problem if he keeps his changes from the mkx beta.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I think GM corner game can beat Ermac's teleport, similarly to how he beats Scorpion's teleport (corner ender... f12, clone, b2 places SZ in front of clone, teleport collides with it/ freezes). But I also think Ermac can punish clone cancels with lift. Does he have those in every variation?
 
Creepy00

Creepy00

Kombatant
Huh, you are right he can't punish the ice clone cancels with teleport. DERP.

Well, his other option to punish clone cancels is ex soul blast for all variations. Mystic can punish it with lift or choke meterless tho.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Creepy00 said:
Huh, you are right he can't punish the ice clone cancels with teleport. DERP.

Well, his other option to punish clone cancels is ex soul blast for all variations. Mystic can punish it with lift or choke meterless tho.
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It's weird, right? You wouldn't think it's safe vs a teleport reversal. I think f33, 123 and d4 into clone are all punishable, but the meaty f42 and b12 are surprisingly safe.

@Dankster Morgan, I think a reason I tend to use Cryo over GM is for the 111 punish online. I know it's going to be different/ easier with GGPO, but even so the 8f (7f jab, extra frame for coming out of block?) punish is more forgiving. There's also the matter of punishing Ermac's frame trap strings, with ex frost bomb or back dash> whiff punish. The Cryo conversions feel more efficient up against the game Ermac is trying to play.

Maybe I'm unable to adapt as GM or maybe I'm trying to justify playing Cryo :p
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
RM Ree said:
It's weird, right? You wouldn't think it's safe vs a teleport reversal. I think f33, 123 and d4 into clone are all punishable, but the meaty f42 and b12 are surprisingly safe.

@Dankster Morgan, I think a reason I tend to use Cryo over GM is for the 111 punish online. I know it's going to be different/ easier with GGPO, but even so the 8f (7f jab, extra frame for coming out of block?) punish is more forgiving. There's also the matter of punishing Ermac's frame trap strings, with ex frost bomb or back dash> whiff punish. The Cryo conversions feel more efficient up against the game Ermac is trying to play.

Maybe I'm unable to adapt as GM or maybe I'm trying to justify playing Cryo :p
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I think GM's corner game is extremely effective against ermac, as if he wakes up you punish the unsafe God, if he doesn't then he is basically putty in your hands. I'll use GM for everyone but D'Vorah and Viscious Ferra/Torr because I feel like it'll be worth it if I can get them cornered in the end. Like how some Cage players will only use A-List because of what he can do even in "bad" matchups(sub lol) it will be worth it if they can get in.
 
Creepy00

Creepy00

Kombatant
Let's no forget that Ermac has ex soul blast to get out of Ice clone set ups. But other than, Ermac has to make the right read to get out from it.
 
ArmageddonUMK

ArmageddonUMK

LongJohnCena
Spectral can punish all clone cancels except for f4xx clone with ex soul charge. I'm not saying a variation switch is 100% necesssry but it's my preference. Ex soul blast can get out of corner traps across all variations. All variations can also punish any clone cancel except f4 clone with ex lift. Ermacs only safe wakeup is ex soul blast so if he has no meter, you get a free jump in into 50/50 off a hammer ender. Additionally if you have meter and read the ex soul blast wakeup you can ex hammer for full combo.

Spectral can ex soul charge through clones/punish most clone cancels (not f4 clone), ignore longer distance clones with ground pound and has a pretty nasty corner game in its own right. Ill take Cryo here so I can do great damage midscreen, armor through flight cancels with hammer and punish him hard for mistakes.

Mystic can ignore clones with choke and I believe can punish clone cancels with it as well. This can get rough for gm so Cryo is the easy choice IMO.

MoS I think could go either way but I personally prefer Cryo. On one hand you build better meter with GM and don't need it for damage so you can break his big damage more often. Plus as has been stated, Ermac doesn't really get to break out of the corner trap without ex soul blast and even then it's not exactly a get out of jail free card.

On the other, Cryo competes better in terms of damage off one touch, and can heavily punish the unsafe gods vortex and end in knockdown for a potential setup for 50/50 into more big damage.

From the perspective of an Ermac player I'm only scared of GM in the corner and with spectral's safety and hover, I'm not to concerned with him being able to get me there, whereas Cryo can do serious damage off one touch anywhere on screen.

Sorry for long post but these are my mains were talking about here:D
 
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