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Sub-Zero General Discussion Thread

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Are we sure Kreeping Ice is low? I thought it was a Mid (kind of like the Cyber Sub Tri-Borg version of the move).

Anyway, Kold Shoulder, if it's safe, after knowing that Slide no longer ducks Mid projectiles, might be a good option. The damage on the enhanced version is brutal.
It's a low according to the frame data a few people have collected around here. Plus the amplified version is safe with tons of pushback. You could probably even get away with ending blockstrings with the non-amplified version due to the threat of possibly throwing out the amplified version, so it's a pressure mixup just by itself.

Of course it's jumping the gun a bit to make assumptions before release, but it seems like it has a lot of promise.
 

Imperium

Noob
Are we sure Kreeping Ice is low? I thought it was a Mid (kind of like the Cyber Sub Tri-Borg version of the move).

Anyway, Kold Shoulder, if it's safe, after knowing that Slide no longer ducks Mid projectiles, might be a good option. The damage on the enhanced version is brutal.
Just because the slide doesn't duck mids doesn't mean it isn't useful. Still a great conversion tool, reaches better and faster across the screen, and hits low obviously. Kold shoulder might be good but it's definitely not worth a point to replace slide unless you can pull some crazy stuff off with it that we aren't aware of.

Creeping Ice is a low, and outside of maybe deep freeze, is his most crucial move. Using it out of his B143 string is going to be huge for staggering.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
It looks like he’s gonna have some easy and practical ways to set up his crushing blows. I’m liking the chip of the ice barrage projectile (can’t remember if that’s what it’s called but y’all know what I’m talking about). Character looks pretty strong, hell everybody looks strong.
 

SINGH E

Noob
I'm just loving everything about Sub-zero in this game. He is not defensive anymore, seems to have some rushdown/offensive qualities from what I've seen so far and I love his special moves. I also like how he looks in all his costumes. His face is cool and the classic ninja costume really reminds me of Sub-zero in Mythologies, I think it's the shade of Blue that he has.

Very Cool!:cool:
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Here’s the thing about offensive Sub. I don’t really think it’s that jarring of a change and Sub being labeled as a historically defensive character isn’t entirely correct.

In MK9 he was very defensive and required a lot of patience to play, he was also hot garbage in that game.

In MKX, I’m only speaking of Grandmaster because that is the variation that mattered if we’re being serious. He had defensive qualities, however what made him truly powerful was his OFFENSIVE capabilities. When people talk about why they hated him, it was his broken jump ins, his 50/50s, and his broken corner game. His defense was only helpful vs characters he already mopped, even so defense was only temporary to take them to the pound town of the corner.

In I2, he was definitely more offense based. Godlike dash speed, good mid, MB burst, great damage off nearly every touch, and once again- an excellent corner game.

At the end of the day it looks like we still have a character who is forced to walk down zoners, open people up in hopes of pushing them to the corner, and can occasionally use defense as our primary strategy when we have a life lead or already beat the other character. Honesty I never did see him as a real defensive character outside of turtling with a life lead.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
In MK9 he was very defensive and required a lot of patience to play, he was also hot garbage in that game.
Even in MK9, the "set up Clone and run away" perception was superficial. He wanted to move forward like a tank.

Anyway, not specifically a Sub-Zero issue but since he was on display....

The match vids made me a little uneasy about the lack of meter management in the game. Every Slide being Amplified struck me as weird. But you always had it available and then some.

Also never really liked the "revenge meter" idea, but if they're going to tweak the idea the way they've shown in MK11... I certainly don't like that you can fail with it and still get a redo.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
Here’s the thing about offensive Sub. I don’t really think it’s that jarring of a change and Sub being labeled as a historically defensive character isn’t entirely correct.

In MK9 he was very defensive and required a lot of patience to play, he was also hot garbage in that game.

In MKX, I’m only speaking of Grandmaster because that is the variation that mattered if we’re being serious. He had defensive qualities, however what made him truly powerful was his OFFENSIVE capabilities. When people talk about why they hated him, it was his broken jump ins, his 50/50s, and his broken corner game. His defense was only helpful vs characters he already mopped, even so defense was only temporary to take them to the pound town of the corner.

In I2, he was definitely more offense based. Godlike dash speed, good mid, MB burst, great damage off nearly every touch, and once again- an excellent corner game.

At the end of the day it looks like we still have a character who is forced to walk down zoners, open people up in hopes of pushing them to the corner, and can occasionally use defense as our primary strategy when we have a life lead or already beat the other character. Honesty I never did see him as a real defensive character outside of turtling with a life lead.
Agree. MK 11 sub seems very fundies / footsies based at first glance.


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Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Also, I feel like Sub having a move that captures that doesn’t need to be amplified might be a really sweet deal. Even Scorpion needs to amplify his spear. We can use our meter on stuff like amplifying any stray slides and ending combos in amplified slide so we can have that crushing blow in our back pocket when we need it.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Sub Zero is as defensive as you make him. I wouldn't say he looks geared to offense in this game, but more footsies and whiff punishing, which I love.

That said, I will be playing as defensive a Sub as I possibly can. I don't like rushdown with sub, it just feels wrong. His calm, stoic nature and just the way he speaks screams you must come to me, I am your better imo.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Sub Zero is as defensive as you make him. I wouldn't say he looks geared to offense in this game, but more footsies and whiff punishing, which I love.

That said, I will be playing as defensive a Sub as I possibly can. I don't like rushdown with sub, it just feels wrong. His calm, stoic nature and just the way he speaks screams you must come to me, I am your better imo.
I think for MKX especially being dynamic and adaptable with your play style was the most important thing to me and it looks like that’s still in tact. Knowing when to press your offense and push for the corner or if it’s not even worth it and to pop clone and sit on a life lead to force a mistake. Minus being able to pop the clone obviously, he probably will be able to use a life lead. Especially if his up close game is as good as it looks, it would be pretty uncomfortable for those longer range characters now having to chase him and get in his range.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
I think for MKX especially being dynamic and adaptable with your play style was the most important thing to me and it looks like that’s still in tact. Knowing when to press your offense and push for the corner or if it’s not even worth it and to pop clone and sit on a life lead to force a mistake. Minus being able to pop the clone obviously, he probably will be able to use a life lead. Especially if his up close game is as good as it looks, it would be pretty uncomfortable for those longer range characters now having to chase him and get in his range.
MKX just wasn't my cup of tea. Too much run run run and mash to keep the other player from having a turn. Multiple pokes on block being fine and dandy and all that.

So I'm hoping with it being slower and more footsie based (and better for old ppl reactions lmao) I can play Sub how I like and still be effective and have fun. That's the main thing.
 

Imperium

Noob
What if Frost ends up being the better Cryomancer in the game?
I'm hoping she has a great kit. Even if she's actually better competitively than Subzero, Sub is going to have his niche because of the mixups, anti zoning tools, etc etc...

Sub won't be useless in this game with the kit he currently has, even if Frost is great. I'm rooting for her to have a mix of ice based moves that are brand new, as well as ones that missed the cut with Sub. I don't think the clone will be in the game, but other moves would be awesome to see.
 

Jhonnykiller45

Shirai Ryu
Dudes saying Frost is gonna have the klone... That's not gonna happen. Klone is not in the game, period.
Really don't think Frost is going to have any of Sub-Zero's moves. If she even is going to be playable that is.
 

Imperium

Noob
Dudes saying Frost is gonna have the klone... That's not gonna happen. Klone is not in the game, period.
Really don't think Frost is going to have any of Sub-Zero's moves. If she even is going to be playable that is.
I think what might be on the table is the cryomancer command grab stab (or something similar), or some ice dagger or sword type moves that call back to certain subzero moves.

There's a million ways for her to fill her own niche gameplay wise, but I could see the following distinctions between Subzero and Frost.

- Subzero being 50/50 oriented, anti zoning, with good reach, without too much speed.
- Frost being a mixup type character (not just based on one big 50/50 but maybe through cancels or command grabs) being mobility based to deal with zoning, with poor reach but with better speed.

I'm pretty excited to see what the idea for Frost will end up being.
 

Jhonnykiller45

Shirai Ryu
I’m petty not excited for frost, she’s just a lazy gender swap
This is the chance they have to make her more than that, then. I really don't give a shit for Frost either but I have faith that NRS will make her a decent character this time around. At least like half of what Sub-Zero is.
 
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