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Guide - Sub-Zero SUB-ZERO COMBO THREAD (Patch 8/31)

Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
Totally agree on the notion of Cryo being a momentum player. Even before this patch.

There are matches where it looks like a flip coin and suddenly you enter into the "zone" and start landing everything, specially in the corner, and then you get a flawless against someone that could've perfectly beat you.

Ree301 said:
In the corner, slide>neutral jump puts you back on the outside, ruining reversal inputs, and midscreen gives perfect distance for strike/ throw mixup. The air hammer armor shred/ double OH shenanigans were helpful lots of times, for both chip and raw damage. This character is very strong now, obviously.
Click to expand...
Now that you mention it, I was already using air hammer against either meterless opponents or the ones that wouldn't be a threat for the air hammer (for example Kung Lao wakeup totally owns it), but many simply evaded it with a moving forward armor wakeup, but the idea of sliding and then using air hammer would totally ruin the wakeup.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Yeah I tried air hammer vs ex spin... Kung Lao rustles my jimmies. Tempest spin/ ex spin are a little crazy. They're both like 5 frame launchers, you can't touch either of them, one can be held like a parry til a time out basically, and the other is a godlike anti-air PROXIMITY (dafuq?) launch leading to ~35% that keeps its armor through its lengthy duration. This is the only move of this caliber that does this btw. Every other similar launcher loses its armor as soon as the attack spits out its hit box (unfortunately learned in ranked as I read a wake up ex spin, responding with the yomi ex crushing hammer. KL just took it as if I whiffed, despite SZ taking his spin hit immediately... Then he punished me).

Rant over. TL; DR I like air hammer, dislike Kung Lao.
 
seakaybe

seakaybe

Noob
My little bit of input for an online GM combo
b2,b2,f3~db2, njp, jip, f12 for 33% and it works on males and females (I'll need to check this on females tonight I am doubting myself as I type).
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Ree301 said:
Yeah I tried air hammer vs ex spin... Kung Lao rustles my jimmies. Tempest spin/ ex spin are a little crazy. They're both like 5 frame launchers, you can't touch either of them, one can be held like a parry til a time out basically, and the other is a godlike anti-air PROXIMITY (dafuq?) launch leading to ~35% that keeps its armor through its lengthy duration. This is the only move of this caliber that does this btw. Every other similar launcher loses its armor as soon as the attack spits out its hit box (unfortunately learned in ranked as I read a wake up ex spin, responding with the yomi ex crushing hammer. KL just took it as if I whiffed, despite SZ taking his spin hit immediately... Then he punished me).

Rant over. TL; DR I like air hammer, dislike Kung Lao.
Click to expand...
7 frames, on the ground you can D4 them out pretty well and it won't stop a properly spaced B2 either. As far as air goes, it has no hope vs SZ's JiK. But yeah, I don't jump vs KL when I play Sub. Never seems to turn out in my favour lol. It's not like it's necessary to tho, you can't reliably jump his projectile since he can curve it up, and the only normal really worth trying to whiff is F23 which Tempest should never really use as anything bar a guaranteed punish anyway. He can beat the JiK with an uppercut as well if he's on point. If you ever do jump, make sure it's not to do anything but JiK and win the air to air trade IMO
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Lokheit said:
Totally agree on the notion of Cryo being a momentum player. Even before this patch.

There are matches where it looks like a flip coin and suddenly you enter into the "zone" and start landing everything, specially in the corner, and then you get a flawless against someone that could've perfectly beat you.
Click to expand...
Before the patch Cryo was the absolute opposite of a momentum character, he was the text-book definition of what a momentum character is not, with no advantage after any combo, and absolutely no worthwhile blockstrings, and no real advantage from corner either. He was a character who traded using momentum like GM does, for more damage off anything. He was best used sacrificing all momentum to abuse the amazing backdash, and space control from Slide and far reaching normals of Sub IMO

I think what you are talking about is comeback factor, which is definitely a thing with Cryo before the patch and even more so now, since he can convert anything for high damage if you have just been getting beat up all round and building meter.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Been playing around with Cryomancer in the lab. A while ago, @boba_buster mentioned how good SZ's air game was, notably jik. As a result of that, I have some unconventional but effective air attack/ air to air confirms. These could be useful if added to the OP for the respective variations.

Note - jik is a better air to air option, where as jip combos are easier to perform. Tailor to your MU or personal preference.

jip (a2a), run f42 1+3 xx hammer - 26% [ jik start - 28% ]
jip (a2a), run f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 37% [ jik start - 39% ]
corner jip (a2a), b2, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 32% [ jik start - 34% ]
corner jip (a2a), b2, f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 41% [ jik start - 43% ]
For lower jik corner collisions where b2 would whiff, replace with 1/d1. Ex: corner jik (low a2a), 1, f42 1+3...

njp, jip, run f42 1+3 xx hammer - 27% [ jik sub - 29% ]
njp, jip, run f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 35% [ jik sub - 37% ]
njp, b2, run f42 1+3 xx hammer - 32%
njp, b2, run f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer - 41%

These tend to happen when slide cross up ruins reversal inputs, opening a whiff punish opportunity. Ironically, these are also useful vs the Grandmaster corner trap strategy.
cornered (ie after slide cross up) njp, f-dash d2, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 31%
cornered (ie after slide cross up) njp, f-dash d2, f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 38%

@themilkman014
 
Samsara

Samsara

Resident Cynic
Ree301 said:
Been playing around with Cryomancer in the lab. A while ago, @boba_buster mentioned how good SZ's air game was, notably jik. As a result of that, I have some unconventional but effective air attack/ air to air confirms. These could be useful if added to the OP for the respective variations.

Note - jik is a better air to air option, where as jip combos are easier to perform. Tailor to your MU or personal preference.

jip (a2a), run f42 1+3 xx hammer - 26% [ jik start - 28% ]
jip (a2a), run f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 37% [ jik start - 39% ]
corner jip (a2a), b2, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 32% [ jik start - 34% ]
corner jip (a2a), b2, f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 41% [ jik start - 43% ]
For lower jik corner collisions where b2 would whiff, replace with 1/d1. Ex: corner jik (low a2a), 1, f42 1+3...

njp, jip, run f42 1+3 xx hammer - 27% [ jik sub - 29% ]
njp, jip, run f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 35% [ jik sub - 37% ]
njp, b2, run f42 1+3 xx hammer - 32%
njp, b2, run f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer - 41%

These tend to happen when slide cross up ruins reversal inputs, opening a whiff punish opportunity. Ironically, these are also useful vs the Grandmaster corner trap strategy.
cornered (ie after slide cross up) njp, f-dash d2, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 31%
cornered (ie after slide cross up) njp, f-dash d2, f42 1+3 xx crushing hammer, f42 1+3 xx hammer - 38%

@themilkman014
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Thanks a lot for your contribution, I only just recently discovered what an NJP does in the corner after a hammer knock-down. Good stuff! I'll edit this into the OP
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
I was toying the other day in the lab and I found a good use of F122 in combos.

We know that F122 followed by B2 is the more damaging way to go for midscreen meterless after freeze combos, BUT that combination is VERY unreliable because it's hard to predict if the B2 will send the opponent forward or backwards, so even if it's the most damaging option (2% increase in many cases) I wouldn't advise to use it because being unpredictable you can drop it.

HOWEVER I found that F122 followed by another F122 and then Cold Blooded is easy to do, doesn't need run (some players avoid the run and opt for the terribly crappy heavy damage scale NJP into JIP, so this one will solve their problems) and the final combo damage is middle of the road between B2 and F122-B2.

So I think every meterless combo including an iceball should use JIP-F122-F122-ColdBlooded after the freeze as the damage is better and the execution is good and reliable unlike F122-B2.

If you don't mind I think it would be useful to update the OP with this, keeping the B2 option too for player preference, but this one is easy to execute and more damaging.

My favorite part is that you get to use the sword, daggers and hammer on the same string.
 
Creepy00

Creepy00

Noob
Here are some universal AA for subbie:
JIP(A2A), RC, B12~Iceball, NJP, JIP, 123 slide -25%
1,B12~iceball, NJP, Run forward (Pushing your opponent to the conner), 123 slide -24%
NJP, B2, RC B12 ice burst -27%

Other Crymomancer AA combos
JIP (A2A), RC, B12~iceball, NJP, Run forward (Pushing your opponent to the conner), F42 1+3 hammer -29%
1,1,F42 1+3~ hammer -27%
1,B12~iceball, NJP, Run forward (Pushing your opponent to the conner), F42 1+3 hammer -29%
1, F42 1+3~Ex Hammer,F42 1+3 hammer -38%
 
Samsara

Samsara

Resident Cynic
I am planning a second round of updates to fix typos, damage values, and add additional combos including universal anti air options. Combo demonstration videos for all variations are incoming.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I might be a little late for this, but for those who struggle landing njp after 242 vs females in the corner, or just dislike inconsistent clone after f12, an alternative is
- starter, freeze, whiff clone, ji2, b2, 242, b33d4, clone - Better damage, safe and consistent clone.
 
Deadly Torcher

Deadly Torcher

King Dingaling
Been fighting a Cryo user alot recently & have been getting 50\50ed into oblivion with massive damage, so I thought I'd check him out to see how hard these combos are.

His midscreen 1 bar 43%, 2 bar 48% combos off of a 50\50 has a zero degree of difficulty.

His 52% corner combo with 2 bars, again off of a 50\50 is a joke.

You boys are spoilt rotten with this easy crap.

Why don't they make all this heavy damage crap hard to do instead of rinse repeat easy combos like Cryos.

BTW this isn't a dig at any Cryo users, more a dig at NRS for making this game as bad as it is.
 
Samsara

Samsara

Resident Cynic
Deadly Torcher said:
You boys are spoilt rotten with this easy crap.

Why don't they make all this heavy damage crap hard to do instead of rinse repeat easy combos like Cryos.

BTW this isn't a dig at any Cryo users
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Angry people on the internet never cease to amuse me. Apparently we're spoiled but he wasn't trying to insult us??

kek
 
Deadly Torcher

Deadly Torcher

King Dingaling
themilkman014 said:
Angry people on the internet never cease to amuse me. Apparently we're spoiled but he wasn't trying to insult us??

kek
Click to expand...
In no way shape or form am I insulting any1 that uses Cryo, I just think that it's no coincidence that everybody & their mothers are running to him, his combos are high damage with little execution, that's it.

If you take that as insulting then you've had a sheltered life fella.
 
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