Match-up Discussion Stryker Matchup Discussion Thread

[Mr. Mileena]

We need to stop being scared of mileena. She is severely overrated.


She has no safe way to get in.
Simply get the life lead, and stand block if shes zoning you. Duck her sais (without holding block) then quickly stand block, duck her sais, quickly stand block etc. She will eventually teleport kick (in which you must be standing to punish), ex teleport, which must be blocked high then low (it's easier high then low, because if you block low thinking she will do an ex tele, and if she does a regular one, she's safe), if she rolls = punish. if she jumps to you = AA.

the mileena might bait your AA's and teleport, but again, it's a major risk.

She isn't bad, but she isnt in my top 10 anymore.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

if you ever get on psn or go to a offline tourney id love to play sindel vs stryker.. i cant see him being able to out zone her..

Stryker will DIE 0-10 if he actually tries to outzone Sindel lol. I'm not saying he can. I'm just saying he can "keep up" (not zoning wise) and hurt her very badly. I'm mostly referring to how Stryker can counter-zone, outpoke and out-damage her. See a lot of people actually think that Stryker needs to be able to zone in order to win but that's not true at all. Stryker is not as one-dimensional as most people think. He also has great footsies, mobility and mid-range tools. Not to mention very good damage output and come back factor.

Yeah I would also love to play your Sindel. I heard you have a nasty zoning one too.

I like the idea of this thread, but it's lacking in the WHY secion. So why shouldn't Stryker be afraid of those characters.

The "WHYs" are going to be in future posts. Ideally with videos illustrating what I mean.

 

[DanCock]

Stryker will DIE 0-10 if he actually tries to outzone Sindel lol. I'm not saying he can. I'm just saying he can "keep up" (not zoning wise) and hurt her very badly. I'm mostly referring to how Stryker can counter-zone, outpoke and out-damage her. See a lot of people actually think that Stryker needs to be able to zone in order to win but that's not true at all. Stryker is not as one-dimensional as most people think. He also has great footsies, mobility and mid-rage tools. Not to mention very good damage output and come back factor.

Yeah I would also love to play your Sindel. I heard you have a nasty zoning one too.

.

yea he does. same with sindel too.. im working on getting better with her rush down side of the game..

 

[totheark]

We need to stop being scared of mileena. She is severely overrated.

Agreed.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on nw. I think it's 5-5 but have zero offline exp against Stryker.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on nw. I think it's 5-5 but have zero offline exp against Stryker.

Close to 5-5 yeah. I still think Stryker has a few very important advantages though:

Nightwolf sometimes needs to burn meter to get in and prevent Stryker from playing his zoning game. On the other hand Stryker never needs to use meter on anything except for Breakers. That's a pretty significant advantage imo. Same reason why Kano struggles with Stryker: they need to spend meter just to close the distance/counter zone Stryker but Stryker is able to build meter faster than them and is able to break more often.

-They both deal about the same damage and they both have safe strings.

-Regular Roll Toss beats every move Nightwolf has except for his Green Axe.

-Reflect and EN Reflect are useless.

There's also the risk vs reward I take into consideration. On a good read, Nightwolf might EN Shoulder a gun shot. But that's like a 50/50 chance to get like 12%? But if Stryker cancels Gun into jump back punch/kick Nighwolf is eating at least 20-30%. Or he can Gun cancel into D1/D3 > Uppercut or D4 xx Roll Toss and that will also kill EN Shoulder. So risk vs reward is in Stryker's favor I'd say.

For all those reasons I would personally give the edge to Stryker 6-4 or 5.5-4.5.

But in the end it still comes down to who manages their meter better and who is able to make the better reads.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

Yeah I would also love to play your Sindel. I heard you have a nasty zoning one too.

I dont think you want to lol. This guy' Sindel is the very definition of frustration lol.

BTW DanCock you should add my new PSN account REKYRTS_ (stryker backward ) That account is specifically for MK friends

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Well I don't think eh shoulder will be how I get in most of the time.

I totally disagree about the damage. NW can do mid 40 with one bar or 40 with no bar and both set up for a lightning. Which can make you lose another 33% or waste a breaker. That is huge.

Reflect is one of his best tools. Dash reflect is great in this situation. Cancels make it harder to read...but they can be read and punished.

About shoulder, being able to punish it is Nothing new...every character can blow up shoulder, reg or eh. But knowing when I will use it is hard to read also.

I still say 5-5 but Stryker has no "advantage" that I can see.

 

[DanCock]

I dont think you want to lol. This guy' Sindel is the very definition of frustration lol.

BTW DanCock you should add my new PSN account REKYRTS_ (stryker backward ) That account is specifically for MK friends

i will, incase i forget myname is easy to remember SINH3LL never ever ever ever changes.

 

[RamenO]

Not calling you out, Vulcan, as I've been out for a while, but how exactly can Liu Kang out-zone Stryker? You can trade grenades all day with his low fireball. His 7% vs. Stryker's 9% even if you don't have zoning advantage.

Also, I'm unsure why Ermac would be a bad one for us. Ermac is just a match where I feel you have to play incredibly reserved, and don't push buttons. Even if you're unsure, just burn a meter with EN Roll and you're instantly in. Force Lift is 13 frames, Roll Toss is -3 + Standing 4 is 8 frames. Keep him honest with 4 all day.

Jade is no problem at all. Don't rely entirely on zoning. Her up close strings are all pretty mediocre, Stryker beats her up close without a doubt. I play Jade as well, and I would honestly say at best for HER it breaks even. Gunshot cancels keep her constantly guessing when/if to glow anyway, honestly.

Smoke & Sektor are a tough one. I honestly would say to not bother zoning them at all, or very sparingly, and just get in their face, you'll stand a better chance up close. I wouldn't say be scared of them, it's not really a "bad" matchup, just got to play it differently.

I have no experience outside of a few local/casual skirmishes with Nightwolf, Mileena, Kenshi, and Sindel, so I can't say much on those for sure.

I think we should always be scared of three people in particular. Rain, Raiden, and Reptile. Can't spell rape without R, and all 3 of'em are culprits for bending Stryker over. I'll give my opinion if you guys are curious about those three, but basically the short version is that even if you read them and punish their teleports/associated shenanigans, at most you'll be punishing with 4 or 11xxGunshot/Roll Toss which won't actually be doing enough to discourage them from continuing their nonsense, as the risk/reward is obviously in their favor. Sub-Zero and Kabal are also scary ones, but not on the level of those 3 I feel.

Also, I'll give you an add DanCock if you don't mind. I'd love to go against some good players. Trying to get back into MK.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Well that's pretty much the point of this thread lol. I guess you didn't understand.

I'm not saying "these are Stryker's bad matchups". I'm saying "Here are some matchups that a lot of players feel are bad for Stryker." But I want to explain why they aren't so bad and why a few of these might actually be in our favor. But most are 5-5 or very close (except for Kabal and Raiden of course).

Kenshi might be tougher than Mileena now that I think about it. He has way better mid-range tools. Mileena only has a very annoying D4 but that poke alone is not going to win her matches.

In Raiden's case it's hard to know for sure because I've never actually played a good Raiden that knew how to use him. All those online scrubs that just abuse lag teles don't count. They would never get away with that BS offline. I understand why he can be trouble for Stryker. But I also know that Stryker can win this and we have some advantages that others characters don't have vs Raiden. That matchup is all about footsies and being more mobile than Raiden.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

Funfacts:

1. After a throw or a Roll Toss, Stryker is just outside Jax's EN Dash Punch reach. Which means we can take your gun out relatively safely.

2. After a Baton Sweep on Noob Saibot, if you dash xx Low Grenade it will: beat shadow slide, trade with shadow tackle, beat EN teleport and make upknee whiff.

3. If you whiff B3 at jump-sweep distance it will make you avoid Noob Saibot's upknee, and the overhead follow up will launch Noob.

4. Sweep can avoid Kano's Up Ball and Johnny Cage's EN Shadow Kick.

Fun facts

Stryker can land standing 4 after an uppercut. I was playing online today and I uppercut the opponent (I think he tried to cross me up don't remember) and he went behind Stryker. For some reason I pressed standing 4 after Stryker turned around and it connected I'm pretty sure roll toss would have connected after 4 as well

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Whhaaaatt. I need to test that lol. Do you think it may be character specific? Who did you do that on?

I've never actually tried uppercut as an anti-cross up tool... Might be interesting.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

Whhaaaatt. I need to test that lol. Do you think it may be character specific? Who did you do that on?

I've never actually tried uppercut as an anti-cross up tool... Might be interesting.

it was on cyrax. I just tried to reproduce it in training and it's a major pain. Since it's online maybe that's why I was able to connect the standing 4 lol. It was a shock to me too lol. For now I just can't do it in training :-(

 

[PoliceBrutality]

Hey V. You probably saw this already but check 8:50 mark of that video

I was trying to use something similar B122...dash uppercut (opp goes behind me) and tried to land standing 4. Didn't get any luck with it either :-( but in the video, I'm curious to know why he has so much time to land 1,2

EDIT: I also want to point out that I was mid screen when I landed standing 4

 

[Carefoot]

Fun facts

Stryker can land standing 4 after an uppercut. I was playing online today and I uppercut the opponent (I think he tried to cross me up don't remember) and he went behind Stryker. For some reason I pressed standing 4 after Stryker turned around and it connected I'm pretty sure roll toss would have connected after 4 as well

I've done this before it is so sick. Stryker has such a fast recovering uppercut compared to the rest of the cast.

Of course I never do it on purpose, but it looks high level as fuck.

It has to do with when you are just barely too close to the corner so a deep uppercut will cause them to go behind you (this is an infinite prevention mechanic).

But because of this mechanic they spend too much trajectory time in the air that the recovery of uppercut is over and my guess is you can do a double uppercut in this scenario too but the 4 is way easier to land because of how they come back down to the ground is so goofy and unpredictable (it doesn't obey normal gravity so to speak). So ironically this mechanic which is to prevent infinitely juggling people in the corner can be used too throw people into a corner off of an uppercut/4/rolltoss..

Which is 1/4th of their life.

Not bad.

 

[JJocelot]

So, what do you guys think of that new matchup chart?

http://testyourmight.com/threads/tom-bradys-mk9-matchup-chart-2-17.14157/

 

[Vulcan Hades]

So, what do you guys think of that new matchup chart?

http://testyourmight.com/threads/tom-bradys-mk9-matchup-chart-2-17.14157/

I agree with the way the overall tier list looks. But disagree on many numbers on the Stryker row. For example, I don't understand why Jade, NW, Noob and Smoke would be on the same level of difficulty as Reptile and Kung Lao.

Jade and Smoke have literally no advantage whatsoever over Stryker. Their only advantage is an elusive one that only exists if the Stryker player tries to zone them like an idiot. But I've said this many times before: Stryker is not a good zoner (well he's good but not amazing at it). He is a great mid-range character with decent zoning and decent counter-zoning tools. But he primarily excels at footsies. And he doesn't need to be able to spam projectiles to win vs most characters. Gun should be used for spacing, conditioning, air control and meter building purposes, not to actually keep people out. That's not how Stryker wins.

A lot of players assume that Stryker has a hard time vs counter-zoning characters but that is not true at all. If anything Stryker is the one that has an advantage over them because their main counter-zoning tools are completely shut down by the simple fact that Stryker can delay or cancel his gun into a ton of different options that will blow them up if they actually dare to reflect/glow/tele/shake his gun. Having a cancelable projectile alone completely nullifies any kind of advantage that counter-zoning characters usually have against other zoners in the game. And footsie wise, Stryker can definitely go poke for poke vs Jade, Nightwolf and Smoke. Not to mention Stryker's damage output and comeback factor is greater now because of his EX baton reset.

Noob, Cyrax and Kabal I used to have a problem with. But that was because I lacked MU experience and because I wasn't playing smart enough.

Placement wise, I would personally put Stryker above Jade and near Kano/Sindel. But Tom's tier list still looks good overall. I just disagree with some numbers like I said.

 

[LEGEND]

my stryker MU chart has stryker with 144-146/310

Tom's list is brutal

EDIT: i'm seeing alot of seemingly random 6-4s throughout his complete Chart

Opinions: i like 5.5-4.5 vs kano now that i think about it,
5.5-4.5 vs baraka is probably 5-5 i use to think it was the other way around,
i have raiden at a 5-5 not 4-6, 4.5-5.5 vs kabal is spot on,
Jax at 4-6 could be right but probably is 4.5-5.5,
lots of 4-6s that should be listed as 5-5s

revised a few things in my chart and it came out to 150.5/310 or 145.5/300 if we don't count mirrors

 

[Marcus Vinicius]

even Skarlet has better numbers that Stryker... WTF?

Stryker < Rain ??

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I just had a pretty long set with zaf who has a good Ermac. After that set I'm starting to think Stryker has an overall advantage over Ermac. It gets worse if Stryker has meter but even without meter Stryker outzones him easily at the right distance and can punish his teleport hard + roll under his projectiles. Ermac has to get in his force push range to get anything going and it can be tempting for him to teleport because trying to zone Stryker can get really frustrating for him. Ermac has to respect gun cancels most of the times so as a result I always had ton of meter. Most of the time when I lost it was because I wasn't spending enough meter on EX Roll.

One thing I noticed though is that if Ermac takes a good life lead and then turtles it can be hard for Stryker to come back. One match zaf was just sitting on his life lead and I had to start going to him. If I try a low grenade he can easily teleport on reaction so that's not an option and gun shots are useless if opponent stays crouching. So yeah turtling Ermac sitting on life lead can be a little harder but still very possible to come back.

I want to say it's 6-4 but realistically it's probably 5.5-4.5 in Stryker's advantage. I think zaf also lacked MU experience vs Stryker. imo Ermac needs to rushdown in this matchup because he's not winning the zoning game. And I have yet to fight a rushdown Ermac.

 

[zaf]

Gun canceling makes it hard to rush Stryker down. It opens up too many zoning tools for him.
- Gives him way too much room to work with. You can't freely get in because you do not know when he will shoot. So even jumping from far to cover room will get you AA'd.
- makes him good amounts of meter
- Can bait my own projectiles with his gun cancels ( even if im looking to trade projectiles), and then roll my projectile.
- This also makes teleporting gun on reaction/prediction a lot harder, since styrker can still gun cancel at the sight of my movement.

Even if I have the life lead and am pressuring with max range tkp, ex roll will always hit me.
- If i am pressuring with block strings, mix ups, cross overs, styrker can use armor to shut down my offense.

Strykers grenades don't really help him in this match up, this I can at least teleport on reaction.

What needs to happen for ermac to win, is he needs to have a life lead.
Even if it is just a single tkp life lead, Stryker can't do anything, he has to go to ermac.
Like vulcan said, when i had a life lead and i was out of his roll range he needed to come to me. Grenades won't help him here.
I just need to be out of roll range and crouched and ill just wait.

I think the match up would be 5-5 (i really do not know this MU)
I think i just need to learn this one, i never did play a styrker like this before.
I never play stryker, so i was not sure what you had advanatage on or what I could punish exactly with what.
I need to just get a combo in or a small enough life lead to change how the match has to be played.
In the same way where when you have the life lead I have to work my way to you, it is the same If i have the life lead.
However, you have some tools I do not have access to such as better meter building and armor moves.
or if I am wrong about this being even, then I would say 6-4 in styrkers favour.

Ermac is not a rushdown character.
So he is not going to beat stryker by commitng to this play style.
He can still put on a good amount of pressure with blockstrings and frame traps but to beat styrker he needs the life lead and make styrker work to him.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Good points man, thanks for your input.

Yeah I think this is one of those matchups that is possibly 5-5 or 5.5-4.5 except when Stryker has meter then he has a bigger advantage. But the problem is that Stryker always has meter in this match and Ermac can't really build much unless he is in Stryker's face.

 

[LEGEND]

we need to play this MU again, want to see how well you do when you're on your A game

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Yeah, I definitely want to test that in a longer set.

Like I said I rarely encounter Ermac players who play like you and Krazie. It almost feels like a different character for some reason.