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Street Fighter V General Discussion

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Ok, so watched the video..

I agree with him in large part about the st.hp being somewhat beyond stupid, but thats a move attached to a character that everyone, Everyone, EVERYONE knows is broken and going to be adjusted. I dont like it, but it doesnt make me want to drop the game and move on. Now, is S2.5 patch arrives and Urien gets like, BUFFED, lol, then I'm packing my bags.

Anyone want games? @ me here. Im gonna be up and down.
 

FL Rushdown

Champion
I'd like to add karins st hk to the list of cc buttons you know people are gonna mash in neutral and still have trouble with. Also shout outs to sims and chuns doing slide into trigger every match because even when you know it's coming you most likely don't have a reliable counter. Also I'd like to say that uriens st hp is better than karins st hk, but pretty much all of karins buttons are godlike so she can eat a dick.
 
I'd like to add karins st hk to the list of cc buttons you know people are gonna mash in neutral and still have trouble with. Also shout outs to sims and chuns doing slide into trigger every match because even when you know it's coming you most likely don't have a reliable counter. Also I'd like to say that uriens st hp is better than karins st hk, but pretty much all of karins buttons are godlike so she can eat a dick.
Who has better buttons, karin or cammy? And who do you think has the best buttons of all?
 

FL Rushdown

Champion
Who has better buttons, karin or cammy? And who do you think has the best buttons of all?
I'd take cammys buttons over karins. But just slightly, and mostly just because she's got a more reliable button AA since I'm not sure what specials we're taking, it's close though. Not counting other factors bison might have the best buttons lol, I'd live to see how that monster would play with vega walk speed, probably still cammy or Karin though.
 

honeybooboo

I speak truth, no lie
Sup fellas, new to sf but familiar with fg's
Picked up rashid because im a lao fuck boy. Can i get a quick guide for him.
Nuetral game
Gameplan
I guess frame data too
Ill just take it from there.
Thanks
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
Sup fellas, new to sf but familiar with fg's
Picked up rashid because im a lao fuck boy. Can i get a quick guide for him.
Nuetral game
Gameplan
I guess frame data too
Ill just take it from there.
Thanks
Rashid is just outside of top 5 he's a solid choice. Download the FAT app it has all the game's in depth frame data, character bnbs, and more.

To see how Rashid plays watch John Takeuchi, Infiltration, or The Cool Kid's videos on YouTube.


Oh and he has the worst dlc costumes
 
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Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Sup fellas, new to sf but familiar with fg's
Picked up rashid because im a lao fuck boy. Can i get a quick guide for him.
Nuetral game
Gameplan
I guess frame data too
Ill just take it from there.
Thanks
Rashid is just outside of top 5 he's a solid choice. Download the FAT app it has all the game's in depth frame data, character bnbs, and more.

To see how Rashid plays watch John Takeuchi, Infiltration, or The Cool Kid's videos on YouTube.


Oh and he has the worst dlc costumes
He's probably closer to the bottom of the top 10 but he's definitely a solid choice. I would cross Infiltration off that list and replace him with Gachikun. TheCoolKid and Takeuchi are great to watch as well and all play him a little differently.

You're gonna have to learn matchups with this character if you want to win. There is no one size fits all gameplan that will work in every MU. Sometimes you play lame and other times you go ham. He changed quite a bit in S2, so make sure you watch more recent matches and combo videos/tech.
 

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
I'd like to add karins st hk to the list of cc buttons you know people are gonna mash in neutral and still have trouble with. Also shout outs to sims and chuns doing slide into trigger every match because even when you know it's coming you most likely don't have a reliable counter. Also I'd like to say that uriens st hp is better than karins st hk, but pretty much all of karins buttons are godlike so she can eat a dick.
Against Dhalsim, I honestly just start jumping like a jackass using a button that crosses up, so that it still hits if they do a slide and cross under you. Dhalsim's anti airs are really low damage (except b hp, but unless you're fighting F Champ I really doubt you will get anti aired on reaction with that) and his post anti air mixups are not that threatening. Even if they anti air you, you can just shrug and resuming jumping like an idiot. And most of the time it'll actually hit because Dhalsims are so desperate to activate most the time. V reversal is also a good option. Doesn't kill the flame anymore but you do get out of the way, which is good enough.

For Chun though I basically just have to let her activate.
 

NHDR

Kombatant
@FL Rushdown
Hey bumdown lul, apologies for ignoring your invite last night. My PSN expired, gonna buy a card this weekend (I hate leaving my credit info with Sony). Couldn't access CFN to message you. Sorry!
 

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
At least Rashids has to hit at a very exact distance to get anything off cr.hp.. But I know what you mean, a button that's SO good for SO many things also CCing is a bit much. Another small nitpick I have - mostly because Im bad - is the ease with which some characters can CC combo. As Karin, I legit find it somewhat difficult to convert off CCs.. The spacing is somewhat specific and I have what feels like a *tiny* window to convert where-as when I play Urien and land a CC (a CC that comes from a universally better button as well and leads to way more damage unless I burn resources - and even then..) I have time to alt-tab, check TYM, yell at my cats, tab back over, dash and cr.hp. I'm NOT saying Karin is weak or bad or anything, so no one jump my ass on the score, its just a quality of life thing is all. I'm reconciled to it only really converting if I'm closer than Id like to be when I use it - it means I need to be preemptive and try to catch people moving forward with it, so they effectively position themselves for me.. Its not just me either, I watch Packz of all people just not even try if he's not confident on the timing 100%. Shrug, just a gripe.

I know this is probably stupid and Im a bad person and all, but I wish you didnt get a CC for attempting a throw tech. The damn throw mixup shit in this game is CONSTANT, on every character and in almost any situation its present... and even with some throw loops being nerfed, its still super dangerous on a lot of characters and if you're in the corner. I dont know how this would effect balance and yadda yadda, but its just something that irks the shit out of me.. Its like ok, I have to guess and depending on what you do, even if I guess right Im probably going to have to guess again after the first guess. Not to mention if you DO guess right and tech a throw all you get is even - which is a small victory in and of itself, and Im totally fine with that since if I tech its because I fucked up somewhere along the way and I'm being ticked, or we're playing the wake-up game.. But a CC>? Why is the resulting big ass combo not enough punishment.. Why the extra damage and stun added in a game that already almost exclusively favors one-two and done knockdown situations.

SFV, MINUS the netcode,(this needs to be fixed RIGHT THE FUCK AWAY, but Im just talking about gameplay/systems changes atm) needs to adjust the current one guess in to stun/death meta that's developing. The rest of the stuff I dont care for is nothing I cant adjust to and nothing I cant work with and nothing that will chase me away from the game.. But some characters ability to apply effectively endless, totally safe pressure and some characters (sometimes the same characters do both) ability to make you guess in to massive damage and death needs to be changed. Its not a matter of adapting, its a matter of a game being interesting, immersive and fun - and one knockdown in to one, maybe two guesses where most of the options you're guessing against are totally safe, often repeatable and even with the hardest of reads, outside of a command grab getting NJ'd, dont give you any momentum as the defender.. is not fun or interesting. Very few people are really enjoying S2. Pros are doing more than the usual grumbling and bitching about this stuff and casual players to the guys in the middle are leaving or about to leave because the game is ceasing to be fun in many ways. Again, I know, adapt and STFU, or just STFU. I know, I get it, and its honestly a very valid statement even if I dont like hearing it.. But counter to that is 'Why?' if a game's core gameplay ceases to be fun and engaging, unless you're a pro, why adapt? Why fight to be better at a game that you dont enjoy playing? A lot of people are getting EXTREMELY fed up with SFV's bullshit and all it ever had in the first place was its central game play and systems loop. If that gets fucked up, well, there ceases to be much of a game. This change will actually, IMO make Guile the top tier, #1 asskicker that everyone thought he was going to be. I think he's amazing, he just lacks the ability to kill you from one KD like several other characters.

Thats just my take on things. I finally have a character that I can call a main, and not just that, but that I actually PLAY as a main, I got past my fear of dropped combos and low health and played Karin and I should have done it months ago, Id be SO much further along now. She is numbah 1. I say that because I *want* SF to be a successful, heavily populated and dynamic game. Not a game where I spend more time guessing than playing.
I think season 2 is a step back from season 1, but actually I have to say that I think the "one touch death" thing will become less prominent as players' defense gets better.

So many of the mixups which appear to be 50/50s are not, it's just that defending it is quite hard while executing it is really easy, so in the earlier part of the game's life, it will seem like offense is absolutely ridiculous and overpowered. Don't get me wrong - I do think offense is way stronger than defense and should be toned down - but I think the gap is not as large as it appears.

Two examples are Boxer and Laura. Boxers overhead always comes a handful of frames before the low, so I'm pretty sure you can just block high and then transition to a low block and then jump OS tech at the right timing to get out in most situations (you don't have to guess). I don't think anyone (def not me) is doing it consistently right now but eventually they will. For Laura, fuzzy guarding (blocking for a few frames and then jumping out) is super doable after her regular command grab (the window is pretty big and i've recently started to do this with some consistency), and also doable vs the VT one (harder, but eventually will be mastered too).
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I think season 2 is a step back from season 1, but actually I have to say that I think the "one touch death" thing will become less prominent as players' defense gets better.

So many of the mixups which appear to be 50/50s are not, it's just that defending it is quite hard while executing it is really easy, so in the earlier part of the game's life, it will seem like offense is absolutely ridiculous and overpowere haved. Don't get me wrong - I do think offense is way stronger than defense and should be toned down - but I think the gap is not as large as it appears.

Two examples are Boxer and Laura. Boxers overhead always comes a handful of frames before the low, so I'm pretty sure you can just block high and then transition to a low block and then jump OS tech at the right timing to get out in most situations (you don't have to guess). I don't think anyone (def not me) is doing it consistently right now but eventually they will. For Laura, fuzzy guarding (blocking for a few frames and then jumping out) is super doable after her regular command grab (the window is pretty big and i've recently started to do this with some consistency), and also doable vs the VT one (harder, but eventually will be mastered too).

I've been screaming that you can fuzzy balrog's high/low since s1, or just react.. sadly though Balrog doesn't need to kill you off a mixup, all he needs is a single touch of almost any kind to do 400-600 and if he still has a bar, after the initial blowup you have to hold his pressure, and if he touches you again you're looking at 300-nearly 400 1bar damage. Balrog's neutral is really good too, so he's going to get those touches, and even if he doesn't, you are eating massive plus frames and white life and unable to move.

Laura and Urien do the same thing.. all three have gimmicks, and I totally agree that a lot of the bullshit they get away with will get better as the season progresses, but unfortunately, for every every gimmick they have, they also have something legit.

I'd be fine with one trick pony type characters that had crazy high damage off unsafe guesses and wild stuff, that archetype pops up a lot and it's always fun to see, but unfortunately they gave one or two and done damage to characters with batshit pressure and offense. And yeah you can just take the throw (everything in this game is a throw mixup, I chose Karin at character select the other day and for thrown out of my computer chair) but obviously that's not a universal answer and it's a silly defense. Not saying you are advocating it, just that I've seen it thrown around like it's how you deal with this meta- oh yeah just take the throw, eat 110-120 damage instead of risking the bigger 300 damage stuff.. makes total sense, except two throws is is nearly a quarter of some characters lives and oh yea, a all the dangerous fuckers get throw oki in the corner any ways, weeeeee..

Again though, I do agree with you in large part, but I just feel like the characters that are really a problem this season so far, don't need gimmicks to kill you off one or two guesses, they all have very real ways to force you to guess as well.
 

FL Rushdown

Champion
I think season 2 is a step back from season 1, but actually I have to say that I think the "one touch death" thing will become less prominent as players' defense gets better.

So many of the mixups which appear to be 50/50s are not, it's just that defending it is quite hard while executing it is really easy, so in the earlier part of the game's life, it will seem like offense is absolutely ridiculous and overpowered. Don't get me wrong - I do think offense is way stronger than defense and should be toned down - but I think the gap is not as large as it appears.

Two examples are Boxer and Laura. Boxers overhead always comes a handful of frames before the low, so I'm pretty sure you can just block high and then transition to a low block and then jump OS tech at the right timing to get out in most situations (you don't have to guess). I don't think anyone (def not me) is doing it consistently right now but eventually they will. For Laura, fuzzy guarding (blocking for a few frames and then jumping out) is super doable after her regular command grab (the window is pretty big and i've recently started to do this with some consistency), and also doable vs the VT one (harder, but eventually will be mastered too).
Yeah but those options only work vs someone on auto pilot. Both Rog and Laura can just delay the button to catch jump back os techs. So yeah you can defend against them better but that just means they've gotta add one more option to their offense.
 

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
Yeah but those options only work vs someone on auto pilot. Both Rog and Laura can just delay the button to catch jump back os techs. So yeah you can defend against them better but that just means they've gotta add one more option to their offense.
Yeah but then they are no longer 50/50 situations.

If they delay the mixup you can hit a button. You now have the opportunity to actually take the offensive, instead of choosing between two defensive options.

They're still mixups but if your defense is good one should be getting hit less than most people are now and the game becomes less dumb (still pretty dumb, I'll grant you - as I said, i don't like season 2 as much).
 

FL Rushdown

Champion
Yeah but then they are no longer 50/50 situations.

If they delay the mixup you can hit a button. You now have the opportunity to actually take the offensive, instead of choosing between two defensive options.

They're still mixups but if your defense is good one should be getting hit less than most people are now and the game becomes less dumb (still pretty dumb, I'll grant you - as I said, i don't like season 2 as much).
games still pretty fucking dumb lol. When I win with akuma I feel like I outplayed my opponent in speed chess. When I beat them with Urien I feel like I just flipped the board and declared myself victor in a checkers match vs my dog. Too much of season 2 is built around there not being good options to stop things you KNOW are coming. I've had so many rounds where I'm actively looking for the option my opponents choose and I still lose out to them because of how easy and strong they are. Rog ex dash punch into shenanigans, or Urien ex tackle into aegis. They're just dumb.

I think it's fun still, but it's like playing a beat em up instead of dark souls there's not the same feeling of accomplishment.
 
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NeroOps

Death Before Dishonor
Aegis not even op imo urien recovery and speed on certain attacks along with the range need to be nerfed a little he can keep dmg.
One screw up when they're mashing you can literally jump back over aegis and dash back until you clear enough room between it
 
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JJvercetti

Warrior
Aegis not even op imo urien recovery and speed on certain attacks along with the range need to be nerfed a little he can keep dmg.
One screw up when they're mashing you can literally jump back over aegis and dash back until you clear enough room between it
Try that with Gief lol.