Street Fighter V General Discussion

[GAV]

While I'd usually agree absolutes are pretty stupid in fighting games. If someone wins because you drop a combo it's not because they knew more than you, if someone wakes up jab into a guaranteed meaty setup and gets a win off it cause it's a 4 bar connection it's not their knowledge that beat you.

How hard it is doesn't matter. If you walked into a wake-up setup, throw, or anything else and your opponent took advantage - then your combined knowledge ended in a result that left you disadvantaged - which means he knew more than you at that time. Whoever wins did so because their knowledge exceeded their opponent's in that moment.

SFV, as I know it, is just like MKX - and every other fighting game for that matter - in that everyone's plan is to simplify the game in their favor by doing something and making it seem that its what they're trying to do, but they have simply prepared for their opponent's counter-measures well enough to take advantage of their inevitable emergence. Those that are good are great at setting their opponents up and taking advantage. Those that are great are also great at this game, but they are also very good at recognizing their opponent's approach. These great players see through the first move and into the follow up and know when not to engage. The best players will occasionally take the bait to take advantage of the more predictable countermeasures, but not enough to show their hand before they do it.

 

[FL Rushdown]

How hard it is doesn't matter. If you walked into a wake-up setup, throw, or anything else and your opponent took advantage - then your combined knowledge ended in a result that left you disadvantaged - which means he knew more than you at that time. Whoever wins did so because their knowledge exceeded their opponent's in that moment.

SFV, as I know it, is just like MKX - and every other fighting game for that matter - in that everyone's plan is to simplify the game in their favor by doing something and making it seem that its what they're trying to do, but they have simply prepared for their opponent's counter-measures well enough to take advantage of their inevitable emergence. Those that are good are great at setting their opponents up and taking advantage. Those that are great are also great at this game, but they are also very good at recognizing their opponent's approach. These great players see through the first move and into the follow up and know when not to engage. The best players will occasionally take the bait to take advantage of the more predictable countermeasures, but not enough to show their hand before they do it.

Eh. No. there are guarantees in fighting games. If someone mashes on wakeup and it works it doesn't mean it's a smart move. There are people that do it and win 1 round and ignore the 9 rounds they lost because of it. If akuma has you in the corner and gets a v trigger dp knockdown there's no situation in which wake up jab wins UNLESS akuma mistimed his meaty. Every possible thing he could do beats that option. Choosing it isn't smart just because once in awhile it'll work. Not saying in that situation I wasn't outplayed, just that it was a read that should've lost if we were going just on who did what. You are always outplayed when you lose, but you can make better decisions and lose.

 

[GAV]

Eh. No. there are guarantees in fighting games. If someone mashes on wakeup and it works it doesn't mean it's a smart move. There are people that do it and win 1 round and ignore the 9 rounds they lost because of it. If akuma has you in the corner and gets a v trigger dp knockdown there's no situation in which wake up jab wins UNLESS akuma mistimed his meaty. Every possible thing he could do beats that option. Choosing it isn't smart just because once in awhile it'll work. Not saying in that situation I wasn't outplayed, just that it was a read that should've lost if we were going just on who did what. You are always outplayed when you lose, but you can make better decisions and lose.

The decision that worked is always the better decision. Not buying in completely dooms you to relatively poor play comparative to your knowledge and skill.

If what you did beats nine out of ten countermeasures, but he did the one that beats it and his move was successful and yours was not, in that moment, how did he not outsmart you?

 

[FL Rushdown]

The decision that worked is always the better decision. Not buying in completely dooms you to relatively poor play comparative to your knowledge and skill.

If what you did beats nine out of ten countermeasures, but he did the one that beats it and his move was successful and yours was not, in that moment, how did he not outsmart you?

That's confirmation bias at its most ugly. A move can be dumb/objectively bad and still work.

Also I'm talking about moves that beat NO countermeasures.

 

[B. Shazzy]

huh interesting. almost like guile players are geniuses or something making him look so gdlk huh

 

[New York Pizza]

While I'd usually agree absolutes are pretty stupid in fighting games. If someone wins because you drop a combo it's not because they knew more than you, if someone wakes up jab into a guaranteed meaty setup and gets a win off it cause it's a 4 bar connection it's not their knowledge that beat you.

Refers to last match we just played lol. That was stupid rollback, but jk you're def the masta

 

[GAV]

That's confirmation bias at its most ugly. A move can be dumb/objectively bad and still work.

Also I'm talking about moves that beat NO countermeasures.

If a move wins out that beats no counter-measures, what did it beat out then?

 

[Rip Torn]

So Max used my Akuma sweep gimmick to win a match with a demon then proceeds to lose his shit: @25:00

Shin Akuma is one of, if not the best, character in the game when oiled up.

 

[FL Rushdown]

If a move wins out that beats no counter-measures, what did it beat out then?

A fuck up.

 

[GAV]

A fuck up.

How is that smarter than anything?

 

[freerf245]

#GiveCharlieHisLegsBack

 

[FL Rushdown]

How is that smarter than anything?

I dunno what you mean. But my point is that all it beats is your opponent making an error.

Meaty throw, meaty button, shimmy, etc all beat it.

All it beats is a mistimed meaty.

 

[GAV]

I dunno what you mean. But my point is that all it beats is your opponent making an error.

Meaty throw, meaty button, shimmy, etc all beat it.

All it beats is a mistimed meaty.

Winning is winning. Losing is losing. To look at it any other way is to handicap yourself as a player.

I know my approach listed in my original response isn't the most evolved, but it perfectly illustrates the leap to tier 2 which is the first step beyond casual.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Winning is winning. Losing is losing. To look at it any other way is to handicap yourself as a player.

I know my approach listed in my original response isn't the most evolved, but it perfectly illustrates the leap to tier 2 which is the first step beyond casual.

Yeah no. That's silly. If you're on defense and you actively choose an option that only works if your opponent misplays you're not "above casual" you're specifically choosing an option that isn't a read. You're going full yolo.

I didn't say you aren't at fault for losing to it (since you messed up) but that doesn't make the other guy a genius.

 

[GAV]

Yeah no. That's silly. If you're on defense and you actively choose an option that only works if your opponent misplays you're not "above casual" you're specifically choosing an option that isn't a read. You're going full yolo.

I didn't say you aren't at fault for losing to it (since you messed up) but that doesn't make the other guy a genius.

...but it does make him momentarily smarter than his or her opponent and since matches are one on one, its all that matters in that moment.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Lol sounds like all tournaments should just be first to one from now on since the better player always wins. /sarcasm

 

[@MylesWright_]

When that Urien st.hp happens to crush counter or Laura st.mks into V-trigger you definitely got outplayed

 

[JJvercetti]

New Urien tutorial:

 

[FL Rushdown]

...but it does make him momentarily smarter than his or her opponent and since matches are one on one, its all that matters in that moment.

No. the ability to look at your games and understand WHY and HOW you lost are important, and you will lose games where you make the right decision and your opponent makes the wrong one simply because you failed to execute. That's why fighting games have execution barriers. There's a difference between losing a game where you use the right idea and fail to execute and one where your matchup knowledge/overall strategy is flawed. It's important to know the difference because you need to understand how to fix it.

If you lose to someone mashing jab in a situation like I mentioned it's not your gameplan, matchup experience, or strategy that you need to work on. If the game was chess and you just chose your moves you'd have won, but it isn't. You've gotta work on the physical side of the game as well as the mental side.

 

[@MylesWright_]

New Urien tutorial:

It was already a -2 crush counter that just gave him 30% for reasons.. in S1. They gave him x2 cr.hp combos to buff the damage and corner carry in S2


This game die might and kinda deserves to die this year if this is in the final patch

 

[FL Rushdown]

New Urien tutorial:

I almost wanna play Urien and only use fierce after watching that. In fact I might make a new account and see how high I can get with just fierce and low forward x trigger.

Also floe is godlike.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I almost wanna play Urien and only use fierce after watching that. In fact I might make a new account and see how high I can get with just fierce and low forward x trigger.

Also floe is godlike.

I thought the exact same thing lol.

 

[GAV]

No. the ability to look at your games and understand WHY and HOW you lost are important, and you will lose games where you make the right decision and your opponent makes the wrong one simply because you failed to execute. That's why fighting games have execution barriers. There's a difference between losing a game where you use the right idea and fail to execute and one where your matchup knowledge/overall strategy is flawed. It's important to know the difference because you need to understand how to fix it.

If you lose to someone mashing jab in a situation like I mentioned it's not your gameplan, matchup experience, or strategy that you need to work on. If the game was chess and you just chose your moves you'd have won, but it isn't. You've gotta work on the physical side of the game as well as the mental side.

There's a human factor in there that causes you to see things unclearly. When you lose and didn't expect to, your mind's fail-safes to protect your opinion of yourself and the worth of what you have been doing. kick in. It won't hurt your drive, but it will skew your angle. If you make the barometer what actually happened, you keep seeing things clearly.

 

[Rip Torn]

It was already a -2 crush counter that just gave him 30% for reasons.. in S1. They gave him x2 cr.hp combos to buff the damage and corner carry in S2


This game die might and kinda deserves to die this year if this is in the final patch

They better do something. With all the other fighting games coming out this year, SFV is looking kind of meh. The S2 patch was supposed to get rid of the top tier's BS but instead we just got a new set of top tiers with new BS.

 

[New York Pizza]

There's a human factor in there that causes you to see things unclearly. When you lose and didn't expect to, your mind's fail-safes to protect your opinion of yourself and the worth of what you have been doing. kick in. It won't hurt your drive, but it will skew your angle. If you make the barometer what actually happened, you keep seeing things clearly.

This explains why my precious ego won't let me watch my losing replays and RELISHES in my wins



Lol... No