General/Other - Sonya Blade Sonya General Discussion Thread

[Orbit Aquary]

I agree with the essential. Grenades hitting low would be amazing too though. lol

Yeah the reason I don't see it as an essential is because the grenades are supposedly safe? But are they really safe? They can't be 58+ on block, which is what the frame data says :S

 

[MsMiharo]

Essential:
- Fix B332
- Charging grenades should take less time (Demolition).

Not essential:
- EX leg grab should have an additional property instead of only armor. Either a pop-up or additional damage (like in MK9).
- Her dive kick should have an EX version with more hits (like in MK9).
- Grenades detonated on the ground should hit low (Demolition).

Grenades should scale less IMO. Atm frag scales the combos way too hard. Also grenades need to be + on block if detonated early. That seems like an oversight.

 

[MsMiharo]

Yeah the reason I don't see it as an essential is because the grenades are supposedly safe? But are they really safe? They can't be 58+ on block, which is what the frame data says :S

they're ~0 if detonated early.

 

[SidTheHaze]

they're ~0 if detonated early.

If you detonate the grenade without any gaps your -11 if you detonate it late your around +4

The problem is that no matter what you decide to do your getting punished because if you wait to detonate the grenade just pray your opponent doesn't have an armored launcher.

 

[Orbit Aquary]

Grenades should scale less IMO. Atm frag scales the combos way too hard. Also grenades need to be + on block if detonated early. That seems like an oversight.

idk. i mean i can get 36% midscreen with a frag and 41% in the corner, so it's quite good damage. i agree they need to be plus on block though. i don't understand why they're not... you only get three of them, they hit high if detonated, and you need to call in new one's, which takes time. another thing i don't like about this variation is that her grenade wakeup is unsafe.

 

[MsMiharo]

If you detonate the grenade without any gaps your -11 if you detonate it late your around +4

The problem is that no matter what you decide to do your getting punished because if you wait to detonate the grenade just pray your opponent doesn't have an armored launcher.

Thanks for clearing that up. I should know better than just guess haha

 

[MsMiharo]

I might be wrong but to me it seems like the ex dd1 in demo should give you grenades back. You summon the drone and you can't use it when fully stocked. To me that would be a decent trade off for a bar. Would also make zoning in this variation more viable

 

[MsMiharo]

idk. i mean i can get 36% midscreen with a frag and 41% in the corner, so it's quite good damage. i agree they need to be plus on block though. i don't understand why they're not... you only get three of them, they hit high if detonated, and you need to call in new one's, which takes time. another thing i don't like about this variation is that her grenade wakeup is unsafe.

Care to share those combos? Haven't seen combos that high in demo

 

[Orbit Aquary]

Care to share those combos? Haven't seen combos that high in demo

ji1, d4, b33212, df11, 12 -run, 121, df4 (36%)

i don't remember the corner combo. but i think it's the same as the 36%, but after df11 you do 12, 12, njp, 12, 121d4.

Check this video I made:

Her throw doesn't do as much damage anymore, so disregard that. Also, I didn't know you could cancel ji1 into the dive kick.

 

[MsMiharo]

ji1, d4, b33212, df11, 12 -run, 121, df4 (36%)

i don't remember the corner combo. but i think it's the same as the 36%, but after df11 you do 12, 12, njp, 12, 121d4.

Check this video I made:

Her throw doesn't do as much damage anymore, so disregard that. Also, I didn't know you could cancel ji1 into the dive kick.

Think I'm already subbed to your channel so I'll look through it later. I have some basic tech on mine as well - safe reloads etc

 

[SidTheHaze]

ji1, d4, b33212, df11, 12 -run, 121, df4 (36%)

i don't remember the corner combo. but i think it's the same as the 36%, but after df11 you do 12, 12, njp, 12, 121d4.

Check this video I made:

Her throw doesn't do as much damage anymore, so disregard that. Also, I didn't know you could cancel ji1 into the dive kick.

Not to be a negative Nancy but these are kinda impractical. Any combo that involves a dive kick, jip, or throw are not reliable since you don't consistently punish with those options and people can mash throw tech while your in a combo.
Giving up 1 meter AND all 3 of your grenades isn't worth it in hindsight either unless its the game ender.

It looks good but I'm all about practicality.

 

[MsMiharo]

Not to be a negative Nancy but these are kinda impractical. Any combo that involves a dive kick, jip, or throw are not reliable since you don't consistently punish with those options and people can mash throw tech while your in a combo.
Giving up 1 meter AND all 3 of your grenades isn't worth it in hindsight either unless its the game ender.

It looks good but I'm all about practicality.

These might be more in your taste then. Probably not optimal though.

 

[Orbit Aquary]

Not to be a negative Nancy but these are kinda impractical. Any combo that involves a dive kick, jip, or throw are not reliable since you don't consistently punish with those options and people can mash throw tech while your in a combo.
Giving up 1 meter AND all 3 of your grenades isn't worth it in hindsight either unless its the game ender.

It looks good but I'm all about practicality.

Well, it is a combo video so the point wasn't really to make it practical. You can still make it practical though. Skip the dive kick and most of them are reliable. I know ending with a throw isn't the best because they can tech that, which is why I had a variety of enders. They fixed the damage scaling on the throw anyways, so there's no need to go with the throw regardless. Giving up all your three grenades and one meter could be useful if you wanna go for maximum damage, especially since Sonya doesn't rely on meter and when you can end in a splat knockdown and replenish grenades.

 

[DaZengie]

Well, it is a combo video so the point wasn't really to make it practical. You can still make it practical though. Skip the dive kick and most of them are reliable. I know ending with a throw isn't the best because they can tech that, which is why I had a variety of enders. They fixed the damage scaling on the throw anyways, so there's no need to go with the throw regardless. Giving up all your three grenades and one meter could be useful if you wanna go for maximum damage, especially since Sonya doesn't rely on meter and when you can end in a splat knockdown and replenish grenades.

Watched the video. IIRC, I think doing any of the 12 in b33212 increases your damage scaling greatly. I think doing b332 will give a bit more damage and is easier to do.

 

[Orbit Aquary]

Watched the video. IIRC, I think doing any of the 12 in b33212 increases your damage scaling greatly. I think doing b332 will give a bit more damage and is easier to do.

b33212 still has more damage, but only by 1%. So I guess if you find it easier to do b332, stick with that.

 

[Youphemism]

I like Demolition and here's what I think. Grenades being -11 on block is kinda shit since her damage isn't exactly overwhelming, but oh well here's hoping for the buffs huehuehue. Frags are useless except for swag combos in my opinion because not only is it easier to convert from stun grenades midscreen but it actually leads to more damage. (Edit: are they safer on block than stun grenades?) Even in the corner stun grenades lead to more damage, and I tested this against frag combos with an uppercut in them! The grenade reload needs to be lessened because she has no safe reload setups (unless F4 on hit at the end of combos actually is and I just haven't done enough testing with it). I mean B33212 is +46 on hit and that still isn't enough to guarantee a reload! Come on

Also MrAquary that combo video isn't the greatest example of guaranteed reloads for a couple of reasons.
1. Kano Ball isn't his fastest wakeup, Up Ball is.
2. The opponent isn't tech rolling there, if he'd tech rolled I assume it would be a full combo punish.

Nice combos though, I'll try and put some of them in my game (although without the divekick starter for most of them lol)

 

[MsMiharo]

I like Demolition and here's what I think. Grenades being -11 on block is kinda shit since her damage isn't exactly overwhelming, but oh well here's hoping for the buffs huehuehue. Frags are useless except for swag combos in my opinion because not only is it easier to convert from stun grenades midscreen but it actually leads to more damage. (Edit: are they safer on block than stun grenades?) Even in the corner stun grenades lead to more damage, and I tested this against frag combos with an uppercut in them! The grenade reload needs to be lessened because she has no safe reload setups (unless F4 on hit at the end of combos actually is and I just haven't done enough testing with it). I mean B33212 is +46 on hit and that still isn't enough to guarantee a reload! Come on

Also MrAquary that combo video isn't the greatest example of guaranteed reloads for a couple of reasons.
1. Kano Ball isn't his fastest wakeup, Up Ball is.
2. The opponent isn't tech rolling there, if he'd tech rolled I assume it would be a full combo punish.

Nice combos though, I'll try and put some of them in my game (although without the divekick starter for most of them lol)

That was my video. It's sort of character specific but works against most wake ups I just didn't bother switching characters. Slides gets it though. EDIT: iirc tech rolls makes your wake up come out slower but you get up faster. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[WidowPuppy]

What should I use as my punisher? I keep trying to punish with back 1 and back 3 and I keep getting blown up. Also what's the proper way for me to use forward 2 I feel like I should be using it more?

For 7 frames... 111~ db2, 3 and 111~bf4 to switch sides.

For 9 frames... 213~db2, 4 and finish your BnB as usual.

For 12 frames... b14~db2, 4 and finish your BnB as usual. This will reach further than the next 14 frame punisher, and should be use accordingly.

For 14 frames... b332~db2, 4 and finish your BnB as usual.

As far as forward 2... A good long range poke at 13 frames, which you can occasionally do f2~db2, 3 [this will combo on hit.] f2, b1 is a good hard knockdown to end combos with or just in general.

 

[Orbit Aquary]

I like Demolition and here's what I think. Grenades being -11 on block is kinda shit since her damage isn't exactly overwhelming, but oh well here's hoping for the buffs huehuehue. Frags are useless except for swag combos in my opinion because not only is it easier to convert from stun grenades midscreen but it actually leads to more damage. (Edit: are they safer on block than stun grenades?) Even in the corner stun grenades lead to more damage, and I tested this against frag combos with an uppercut in them! The grenade reload needs to be lessened because she has no safe reload setups (unless F4 on hit at the end of combos actually is and I just haven't done enough testing with it). I mean B33212 is +46 on hit and that still isn't enough to guarantee a reload! Come on

Also MrAquary that combo video isn't the greatest example of guaranteed reloads for a couple of reasons.
1. Kano Ball isn't his fastest wakeup, Up Ball is.
2. The opponent isn't tech rolling there, if he'd tech rolled I assume it would be a full combo punish.

Nice combos though, I'll try and put some of them in my game (although without the divekick starter for most of them lol)

Yeah I want demolition to be the pressure variation for Sonya. She doesn't have much pressure in this game, like what happened to MK9 Sonya I never use frags because like you said, there's no reason to really. But is it even supposed to be like that? I mean looking at the frame data, they are identical.

Also, not my video

 

[MsMiharo]

For 7 frames... 111~ db2, 3 and 111~bf4 to switch sides.

For 9 frames... 213~db2, 4 and finish your BnB as usual.

For 12 frames... b14~db2, 4 and finish your BnB as usual. This will reach further than the next 14 frame punisher, and should be use accordingly.

For 14 frames... b332~db2, 4 and finish your BnB as usual.

As far as forward 2... A good long range poke at 13 frames, which you can occasionally do f2~db2, 3 [this will combo on hit.] f2, b1 is a good hard knockdown to end combos with or just in general.

you can do 11 db2 4 and it will combo IIRC

 

[WidowPuppy]

you can do 11 db2 4 and it will combo IIRC

Really! Holy 5h!t that's good to know, been away from Sonya for some time. Been back with Jacqui since they fixed her hitbox issues. Thank you MsMiharo.

 

[Youphemism]

That was my video. It's sort of character specific but works against most wake ups I just didn't bother switching characters. Slides gets it though. EDIT: iirc tech rolls makes your wake up come out slower but you get up faster. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Depends on the knockdown, 121~DD1 for example has a normally relatively long knockdown which is why it's safe without tech roll but if they roll then she can be punished.

 

[MsMiharo]

Depends on the knockdown, 121~DD1 for example has a normally relatively long knockdown which is why it's safe without tech roll but if they roll then she can be punished.

Thanks. I'll test further next week.

 

[Tony at Home]

Don't have time to download the patch and test this out tonight, but some thoughts just from reading the patch notes:

• Sonya - adjusted several hitboxes to hit more consistently

Assuming this refers to b223, which is certainly nice.

• Sonya – added 5 more recovery frames on Air Drop when missed

Definitely fair. Airdrop had pretty much 0 penalty for whiffing and alot of times an opponent just trying to block it would end up getting pressured by a Sonya who fell short. This also means that opponents who whiff a low-profile d4 against a Sonya jumping in because divekick changes her angle- won't find themselves at block disadvantage as much

• Sonya - Energy Blast is a mid block and -5 on block (up from -15)

woooooaaaaah. Did not see this coming. I really didn't have an issue with this in Demolitions, because I would use it in conjunction with grenades to force the opponent to block the Blast and take some extra chip. This will make Energy Blast more useful in other variations though- it felt almost entirely useless in covert Ops.

• Sonya - increased damage of Flying Kick (enhanced) by 4

This was already her best way to end a combo and corner an opponent. Now it does more damage. Excellent.

• Sonya - increased damage of Leg Slam by 5

I generally don't use this too much because she has much better enders, but the additional damage may be helpful when you just need that extra bit to finish off a life bar.

• Sonya (Covert Ops) - Garrote Parry is no longer throw immune

Was not aware this was even a thing...

• Sonya (Demolition) - increased cancel advantage on Boomer combo (FP, FP, BP)

Will definitely be helpful in those matches where she had trouble safely refilling grenades outside of a 2134 juggle ender. Scorpion was absolutely terrible to deal with for that reason.

• Sonya (Demolition) - adjusted the damage & hit stun of the grenade attacks

This is vague. Adjusted in which way? Don't have time to download the patch tonight, but will try it out tomorrow. I'm hoping her frag grenades actually do better damage now. I would totally trade some damage from her shock grenades for this one reason.




All in all, these look like mainly Quality of Life changes. No huge nerfs and no huge buffs. Many moves where improved, but these improvements were really only for moves that were not very useful at all before and almost didn't make sense at all without the buffs. I honestly only used b332 out of a good deal of desperation.

I'm guessing NRS is quite happy with where Sonya is at the moment. And given she's arguably top tier- I'd take that as a good indication she's the standard where NRS thinks characters should be.

 

[Youphemism]

Don't have time to download the patch and test this out tonight, but some thoughts just from reading the patch notes:

• Sonya - adjusted several hitboxes to hit more consistently

Assuming this refers to b223, which is certainly nice.

B223? Get out of this thread you filthy pocket Sonya

• Sonya - Energy Blast is a mid block and -5 on block (up from -15)

woooooaaaaah. Did not see this coming. I really didn't have an issue with this in Demolitions, because I would use it in conjunction with grenades to force the opponent to block the Blast and take some extra chip. This will make Energy Blast more useful in other variations though- it felt almost entirely useless in covert Ops.

The thing with this is that in Special Forces and Demolition she can cancel her mixups into this to keep her safe when she doesn't have Drone or grenades! This is actually a really good thing and it helps her zoning game too slightly so overall great.

• Sonya (Demolition) - increased cancel advantage on Boomer combo (FP, FP, BP)

Will definitely be helpful in those matches where she had trouble safely refilling grenades outside of a 2134 juggle ender. Scorpion was absolutely terrible to deal with for that reason.

I don't understand this "buff" considering 112 isn't cancellable in the first place. Does this make it cancellable? Does this let her call the drone to reload sooner after letting go of the opponent? I don't get it lol.

• Sonya (Demolition) - adjusted the damage & hit stun of the grenade attacks

This is vague. Adjusted in which way? Don't have time to download the patch tonight, but will try it out tomorrow. I'm hoping her frag grenades actually do better damage now. I would totally trade some damage from her shock grenades for this one reason.

Exactly I don't know what this means yet If frags do more it allows us to go for sexier corner combos but midscreen I might stick to stuns if the damage difference isn't too much since they're easier to convert off of.