Something that needs to be said

[SatsuiYesHadou]

Wait I just noticed. Why the poopy would someone try to hit confirm the last hit of the b33 string? Of course that's impossible and stupid to try

 

[Red Reaper]

I dont understand all these comments above, wasnt it common knowledge from day one you had to dial in your launcher before the the second or last attack even landed? thats why you need at least two hits to be able to call it a hitconfirmable string and the window between the first and the second hit needs to be big enough to react to and cancel into a special.

this is one of the things street fighter players dont like about mk, because hitconfirming works differently in sf and other games. ive played kung lao for a long time now and 21 is still a pain in the ass to hitconfirm, which is why I rely on 24 hitconfirm a lot more now.

I dont understand how you can say 21 is hitconfirmable and b33 not though, they are about equally hard imo, but b33 gives you more visable confirmation because it makes the opponent stand up.

This is all he originally said in THIS Thread:

b3 is a 11 frame short ranged unhit confirmable combo starter

To which I replied:

B3 3 is hit konfirmable but it is better to use that when you have meter so you kan switch to EX tele on block.

And he responded with:

Its not hit confirmable. I of all people should know.

Of Kourse he never mentioned hit konfirming from the second hit. Which is why I mentioned in this thread that who really blocks the first hit and still gets hit by the second? lol.

In this thread is where he finally klarified it:

And no you cannot hit confirm b33 into spin for a combo. Next person who says that when I see you at a tournament I will bet you $100 you will not hit confirm and see when the 2nd 3 hits and confirm that hit into spin. You have to do it full speed.

Perfect Legend was just being imperfectly klear at first. He didn't even say B3 3. He just said B3. I stated B3 3 to klarify in my post when I originally responded.

 

[Red Reaper]

ive played kung lao for a long time now and 21 is still a pain in the ass to hitconfirm, which is why I rely on 24 hitconfirm a lot more now.

2 1 is hard to hit konfirm??

I never had trouble with that.

 

[Big Pampering]

2 1 is hard to hit konfirm??

I never had trouble with that.

find me a match where a kung lao player cancels 21 into spin 100% of the time, people mess it up all the time.

 

[SatsuiYesHadou]

This thread was the perfect bedtime story c:

 

[STRYKIE]

Mr. Legendary to the Perfectionist, I'll be the first to admit I stick up for you, and also Kung Lao's misconceptions throughout each revision of the game (good or bad) as much as I can, but I can't agree with this one.

For perspective's sake, how it is fair that Cage has two long range 9 frame mids that advance and keep him neutral on block with an option to jail with meter while Scorpion's only mid with decent at best range nullifies his pressure no matter what he commits to afterwards? How is it fair that just by spending 5 minutes in the lab, you can tell his footsie game was blatantly supposed to revolve around hellfire but NRS nerfed everything that would've guaranteed it because of all the controversy it generated in the largely irrelevant 3D MK games? Why is it fair that his low-reward overheads are just as unsafe as his combo starter mixups?

If anyone has any reason to complain about the unorthodox risks that have to be taken in this game, and have a thread spanning 300 posts about it, well, you can probably put me and my associates in the Scorpion forums at the top of that list.

But we haven't because we know first and foremost what we're getting ourselves into, it must be stressed you have been quite a tier whore throughout every fighting game you've played, and I personally ain't knocking you for that, you've been in the FGC longer than most people on TYM and don't owe them any weird sense of honor and there's nothing wrong with doing everything you can to make as much money as you can from this industry. The problem with this is you seem to be irked by the idea that holes will eventually materialize in the said character's gameplan, holes that some players have been having to work around since the beginning.

IMO Lao's mobility is more misunderstood than it is overrated. I think alot of players took your performance at EVO last year on board as Teleport 3 = win button, much like "lollaoisnothingwithout24lowhat" and the ideology of teleport 3 mindgames has now been completely tarnished. Hence why F0xy is now exploring how far "Bird Lao" can really go. Saying it's all just good reads on your part, dare I say fishing for props, is only gonna turn the Lao forums into the second coming of the Sub-Zero forums, which doesn't benefit anybody.

No, low hat didn't need to be nerfed, but on the flipside, does Kabal need his IAGBs, quasi-safe buzzsaw, or EX Dash? Again, no, but what does nerfing any of that do to his rushdown? Jack shit. Infact, I'll go as far as to say it might even broaden the horizons of Kabal's rushdown, much like letting go of low hat encouraged the Lao community to explore the ambiguity of his mobility.

I'm also having a hard time getting my head around how you think pre-patch spin is gonna throw anybody off in today's game either, after the community has disciplined themselves to make Kabal pay for a bad decision in the tightest of frame windows. I mean, hey, I'd like everyone to drop Cyrax for Stryker too, but at the end of the day;

This is Mortal Kombat, never expect anything to be handed to you. And if I have to be brutally honest, it's a sad state of affairs when Tekken players are able to grasp this better than our own 2 time, undefeated at EVO, world champion.

 

[Perfect Legend]

Mr. Legendary to the Perfectionist, I'll be the first to admit I stick up for you, and also Kung Lao's misconceptions throughout each revision of the game (good or bad) as much as I can, but I can't agree with this one.

For perspective's sake, how it is fair that Cage has two long range 9 frame mids that advance and keep him neutral on block with an option to jail with meter while Scorpion's only mid with decent at best range nullifies his pressure no matter what he commits to afterwards? How is it fair that just by spending 5 minutes in the lab, you can tell his footsie game was blatantly supposed to revolve around hellfire but NRS nerfed everything that would've guaranteed it because of all the controversy it generated in the largely irrelevant 3D MK games? Why is it fair that his low-reward overheads are just as unsafe as his combo starter mixups?

If anyone has any reason to complain about the unorthodox risks that have to be taken in this game, and have a thread spanning 300 posts about it, well, you can probably put me and my associates in the Scorpion forums at the top of that list.

But we haven't because we know first and foremost what we're getting ourselves into, it must be stressed you have been quite a tier whore throughout every fighting game you've played, and I personally ain't knocking you for that, you've been in the FGC longer than most people on TYM and don't owe them any weird sense of honor and there's nothing wrong with doing everything you can to make as much money as you can from this industry. The problem with this is you seem to be irked by the idea that holes will eventually materialize in the said character's gameplan, holes that some players have been having to work around since the beginning.

IMO Lao's mobility is more misunderstood than it is overrated. I think alot of players took your performance at EVO last year on board as Teleport 3 = win button, much like "lollaoisnothingwithout24lowhat" and the ideology of teleport 3 mindgames has now been completely tarnished. Hence why F0xy is now exploring how far "Bird Lao" can really go. Saying it's all just good reads on your part, dare I say fishing for props, is only gonna turn the Lao forums into the second coming of the Sub-Zero forums, which doesn't benefit anybody.

No, low hat didn't need to be nerfed, but on the flipside, does Kabal need his IAGBs, quasi-safe buzzsaw, or EX Dash? Again, no, but what does nerfing any of that do to his rushdown? Jack shit. Infact, I'll go as far as to say it might even broaden the horizons of Kabal's rushdown, much like letting go of low hat encouraged the Lao community to explore the ambiguity of his mobility.

I'm also having a hard time getting my head around how you think pre-patch spin is gonna throw anybody off in today's game either, after the community has disciplined themselves to make Kabal pay for a bad decision in the tightest of frame windows. I mean, hey, I'd like everyone to drop Cyrax for Stryker too, but at the end of the day;

This is Mortal Kombat, never expect anything to be handed to you. And if I have to be brutally honest, it's a sad state of affairs when Tekken players are able to grasp this better than our own 2 time, undefeated at EVO, world champion.

Thanks. I like your post.

However as far as me being a tier whore I didn't know any of these chars were good when I was a casual player I just picked who I liked and they are good competitively but idc if im a tier whore lol.

Teleport mobility is from the concept of Akuma cross up mixup with Jump ins, cross up tatsu and making it all ambiguous. Being a seasoned Akuma player in sf4 is how I came up with it.

Using spin and dive kick is good reads on my part which both put my lifebar on the line.

I'm irked by Kung Lao being overrated,

 

[trustinme]

I'm having a huge character crisis tbh. ;_;

im not surprised dude,i was going to main joker too until i saw how ass he looks.imo he's the quan chi of injustice so far,he'll have 1 thing thats cheap as fuck but overrall he'll be fucking useless.maining aquaman,shazam and sinestro myself.

 

[Briggs8417]

im not surprised dude,i was going to main joker too until i saw how ass he looks.imo he's the quan chi of injustice so far,he'll have 1 thing thats cheap as fuck but overrall he'll be fucking useless.maining aquaman,shazam and sinestro myself.

I plan to go Batman, Aquaman and either Shazam or Black Adam.

 

[coolwhip]

Lao's D4 is actually completely average. Average range and average speed and no it doesn't give you a free 21212 string, even with the hit advantage your string will still loose any D3. The fact that Kung Lao doesn't even get a free safe follow up to it makes his D4 barely even worth using to be honest.

Actually this is not completely true. Yes, Lao's standing 2 can be neutral ducked even after a D4 on hit, but the opponent will not be able to D3 during the string, unless it's a fully spaced D4 followed by a full dash in, then that would provide him with an big enough window to D3. But a point blank D4 (or slightly farther) has enough stagger on hit to prevent the opponent from immediately countering with a D3 (though as you said, he can neutral duck, which wouldn't be smart in this case as the second hit of the string will hit him).

What you said applies to Lao's D3 on hit for sure, but not his D4. To make sure, I just tested this extensively against Cage.

 

[Wildabeast]

Actually this is not completely true. Yes, Lao's standing 2 can be neutral ducked even after a D4 on hit, but the opponent will not be able to D3 during the string, unless it's a fully spaced D4 followed by a full dash in, then that would provide him with an big enough window to D3. But a point blank D4 (or slightly farther) has enough stagger on hit to prevent the opponent from immediately countering with a D3 (though as you said, he can neutral duck, which wouldn't be smart in this case as the second hit of the string will hit him).

You should probably also take into account that D4 gives different advantage depending on whether you catch someone standing ( +12) or crouching (+5). +12 might be enough to get a free 21 if you do it immediately but +5 definitely isn't no matter what the range.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

jax isnt top 10, kung lao is number 6
a large bulk of chars give jax huge problems


shang is really fucking good, his zoning is insane, the upskulls are widely underrated and his mixup game fullscreen is brutal... soul steal is one of the best moves in the game buts its a pain in the dick that its disadvantage on hit... the fact that he has a move with that much range that is actually plus on block, deals a ton of damage and allows you to have a mirror match advantage and he can armor it... is crazy... shang is very good.... that being said he probably has more bad matchups then lao (smoke, freddy, jax, sonya, kenshi(?) kabal, lao(?), cyrax, noob(?), skarlet???, reptile)

lao loses to what? cyrax (maybe?), sonya, cage(?), kabal, sektor, kitana???? none of them are 3-7

Lao is never at disadvantage vs Sektor, EVER.
BL completely shuts down Sonya, and makes it a fucking difficult task for Cage to touch when you make them fear the 2.
Cyrax has no tools designed for killing Lao specifically, he does alot of damage thats all.

You should probably also take into account that D4 gives different advantage depending on whether you catch someone standing ( +12) or crouching (+5). +12 might be enough to get a free 21 if you do it immediately but +5 definitely isn't no matter what the range.

A D3 on hit is enough to gaurantee a 2 4, the 2 might not hit but the 4 will, so you can always do 2 4 overhead.

 

[coolwhip]

You should probably also take into account that D4 gives different advantage depending on whether you catch someone standing ( +12) or crouching (+5). +12 might be enough to get a free 21 if you do it immediately but +5 definitely isn't no matter what the range.

Yeah, I should have specified that it was against a standing opponent.

 

[Peckapowa]

Lao is never at disadvantage vs Sektor, EVER.
BL completely shuts down Sonya, and makes it a fucking difficult task for Cage to touch when you make them fear the 2.
Cyrax has no tools designed for killing Lao specifically, he does alot of damage thats all.



A D3 on hit is enough to gaurantee a 2 4, the 2 might not hit but the 4 will, so you can always do 2 4 overhead.

your in the field that thinks lao has all evens???

 

[Red Reaper]

find me a match where a kung lao player cancels 21 into spin 100% of the time, people mess it up all the time.

 

[SatsuiYesHadou]

LOLOLOLOL that peanutbutterplayer

 

[Big Pampering]

he did 21 like twice in the whole set, the first match he didnt even use it once. he landed 21 spin once and the other 21 got whiffed. pboard is a player that doesnt use 21 that often judging from his videos. but 21 is definitely harder to hitconfirm than most other strings in mk, you see tons of videos of top mk players doing a 21 on hit without spin versus this video where he did it once in a whole set.

 

[Red Reaper]

he did 21 like twice in the whole set, the first match he didnt even use it once. he landed 21 spin once and the other 21 got whiffed. pboard is a player that doesnt use 21 that often judging from his videos. but 21 is definitely harder to hitconfirm than most other strings in mk, you see tons of videos of top mk players doing a 21 on hit without spin versus this video where he did it once in a whole set.

lol... It's weird. He usually uses it more often. But technically it fit your kriteria... haha.

I think it's the Sonya match up that made him use it less. You usually want to keep your distance from Sonya when you kan and that's why 24 is more useful because of the range.

I never really had much trouble hit konfirming Lao's 2 1, but I'll take your word on it.

 

[Red Reaper]

LOLOLOLOL that peanutbutterplayer

That PeanutButterPlayer is a slippery one! lol.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

2 4 is alot easier to hit confirm, dont think I ever fuck that one up. 2 1 I'll occasionally not get the spin off, but its still a big enough window to notice you're at advantage and get something else off it, like a throw.

 

[RTM2004]

Are you secretly a Smoke player?!

Never! I like shooting Fireballs with Sindel. Smoke takes the fun away like you smoking away and shaking yo azz like the coward you are XD

<3 Faded D <3