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Perfect Legend

Perfect Legend

Noob
I'm really tired of hearing about how great of a character Kung Lao is and this is ONLY coming from me winning evolution or placing well at tournaments I have attended.

His only argument for being whatever is "OMG HIS MOVEMENT IS SO GOOD HE CAN GET IN NO PROBLEM"

Yes Kung Lao can get in no problem but when he gets you can d3 all of his options besides spin.

Before Foxy comes in here and says "well u can play bird lao and do this" Bird Lao doesn't work versus opponents that block and are actually good at the game. I'm tired of hearing about dive kicking and teleporting like crazy. You do realize I am the one who starter this style and every KL player pretty much just copied what I do right? Please stop telling me to basically use my own style of play with him.

What do you do when your dive kicks and spins start getting blocked? What do you do when your 1's and 2's get ducked and now you are at a disadvantage and get counter poked by a safe combo starter?

There is nothing you can do. b33 is fucking ass the opponent blocks it and they can get free pressure everytime its -8 and some chars can punish it unless I just go right into a special move. And no you cannot hit confirm b33 into spin for a combo. Next person who says that when I see you at a tournament I will bet you $100 you will not hit confirm and see when the 2nd 3 hits and confirm that hit into spin. You have to do it full speed.

Roll is also ass don't tell me about his mobility when all of his mobile options are unsafe as hell and easily punishable.

Kung Lao has all the same problems as night wolf when he is up close trying to get damage but all he has is spin to hit you for trying to do low pokes.

The way he was prepatch he needed that. He needed his low hat the way it was and he needed Spin the way it was supposed to be. If Cyrax can keep a damn command grab that you can barely break on reaction half the time and 100% combos then kung lao definitely needs the shit he had before.

The only reason Kung Lao looks so good is because I make good reads. Take away good reads and he can't win from being solid cause he doesn't have any solid tools all he can do is whiff punish but if you give him nothing to whiff punish then what? Exactly he cant create opportunities he can only beat the opponent if they don't know how to abuse crouch on him.

And for all the people saying Kung Lao is so good I haven't seen one person do well with using him alone in a major tournament or place high in a major with using just him not once.

You can say he is good by using him against his only good matchups yes obviously but all of this Kung Lao uplayers use chars like Kitana, Sonya, Cyrax, Cage, Kabal. Seriously all the chars that pretty much beat him? Hilarious.
 
xenogorgeous

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
KL gameplay is kinda fast and so, yeah you can punish him, but, you have to foresee a lot in order to punish properly, otherwise, a very good KL player make almost all rest of mk9 roster look a bit .... free
 
Perfect Legend

Perfect Legend

Noob
Playpal said:
I agree he's overrated, but compared to 20-25 other characters in this game, lao's fine.
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Fine? His only usable mid up close is a Unsafe combo starter that is punishable by 40%+ combos in the game. He has no pressure you can crouch under all of it. He is almost useless without meter and his ex teleport you can just dash or walk away from. Ex low hat is only good in the corner. Ex Hat toss is only good for combos and ex dive kick is a waste of meter however if low enough to the ground its advantage on block with perfect spacing. Ex Spin goes a distance but for what it does it should have armor or be safe. He has mobility but when he gets next to you he can't really hit you unless you really leave yourself open and versus top level players that won't happen often.

Lets compare him to say Jax who has similar problems.

Jax is weak to crouch but he has good enough zoning to compensate for that with unblockable ground pound, ground pound cancels, energy wave which recovers fast. For players who try to counter zone him he has ex dash punch and for players mashing crouching normals he can do du4 to jump over it and hit them. His f4 will also hit crouching normals and people crouching if they aren't blocking and at least with meter he can do f4 enhanced du4 overhead. He also has f3 and b1 which are fast enough to use as pokes because most people will be crouching looking out for f4 to try to punish thus opening that up and his grab. in the corner he has a 100% combo with 3 bars of meter but most people will breaker and keep themselves in the corner allowing him to continue pressuring them until they die. Vs a good portion of the cast f41 cant be crouched so he can use that on chars like Cyrax who have a lower hit box but for some reason he has to block the 2nd hit allowing him to build a lot of meter. jax also has his air gotcha grab to use as an anti air that will pretty much beat everything in the air cause of his invincibility. Jax also can use dash punch for mobility to get around zoning characters. f4 also cant be mashed under with d3's while its on the screen and its 8 frames and has good range so opponents wont be able to just move around freely in footsie range cause of f4's range and speed forcing the opponent to block which allows jax to come in and do grabs or overheads.

I WISH KUNG LAO had something AT LEAST like that. Hell I would take Jax's f4 problem over kung lao's problems. Cause 2 and 1 begin high you can just crouch and hit d3 and not worry about getting hit unless he does a spin which has NO RANGE WHAT SO EVER.
 
Perfect Legend

Perfect Legend

Noob
Perfect Legend said:
Fine? His only usable mid up close is a Unsafe combo starter that is punishable by 40%+ combos in the game. He has no pressure you can crouch under all of it. He is almost useless without meter and his ex teleport you can just dash or walk away from. Ex low hat is only good in the corner. Ex Hat toss is only good for combos and ex dive kick is a waste of meter however if low enough to the ground its advantage on block with perfect spacing. Ex Spin goes a distance but for what it does it should have armor or be safe. He has mobility but when he gets next to you he can't really hit you unless you really leave yourself open and versus top level players that won't happen often.

Lets compare him to say Jax who has similar problems.

Jax is weak to crouch but he has good enough zoning to compensate for that with unblockable ground pound, ground pound cancels, energy wave which recovers fast. For players who try to counter zone him he has ex dash punch and for players mashing crouching normals he can do du4 to jump over it and hit them. His f4 will also hit crouching normals and people crouching if they aren't blocking and at least with meter he can do f4 enhanced du4 overhead. He also has f3 and b1 which are fast enough to use as pokes because most people will be crouching looking out for f4 to try to punish thus opening that up and his grab. in the corner he has a 100% combo with 3 bars of meter but most people will breaker and keep themselves in the corner allowing him to continue pressuring them until they die. Vs a good portion of the cast f41 cant be crouched so he can use that on chars like Cyrax who have a lower hit box but for some reason he has to block the 2nd hit allowing him to build a lot of meter. jax also has his air gotcha grab to use as an anti air that will pretty much beat everything in the air cause of his invincibility. Jax also can use dash punch for mobility to get around zoning characters. f4 also cant be mashed under with d3's while its on the screen and its 8 frames and has good range so opponents wont be able to just move around freely in footsie range cause of f4's range and speed forcing the opponent to block which allows jax to come in and do grabs or overheads.

I WISH KUNG LAO had something AT LEAST like that. Hell I would take Jax's f4 problem over kung lao's problems. Cause 2 and 1 begin high you can just crouch and hit d3 and not worry about getting hit unless he does a spin which has NO RANGE WHAT SO EVER.
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Kung Lao was never a counter to Kenshi. Kenshi goes even or beats kung lao. Dude Kung Lao's saving grace against Kenshi is Kenshi has to block all hits of ex spin so it becomes safe against kenshi. So he can poke with his regular normals and cancel into ex spin. The whole jump in teleport nonsense loses to kenshi's d3 which lowers his hit box tremendously. Anytime Kung lao is at 0 frames after a string hes at a disadvantage unless he does spin cause kenshi can just d3 to beat all of his options except spin or a normal cancelled ex spin.

But how is Kung lao going to build meter if he cant make kenshi block cause kenshi is crouching everything? Also on wake up kung lao cant do shit cause Kenshi can safely attack him from a distance. If Kung lao teleports Kenshi's overhead sword will knock him back down and Kung lao is out of range to do spin so kung lao has to get up blocking and deal with all his nonsense. The biggest issue here is kenshi players just want to sit across the screen and spam special attacks all day this is what Kung lao beats most of them cause he will just use mobility to get around his specials. You can't just spam projectiles all day and expect to win vs kung lao that is how he was built. the problem is Spin used to be harder to punish cause it pushed back but now it pushes back none at all.
 
PND_Ketchup

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Kung Lao is a character you can't downplay. He's solid as a rock, this has been proven on multiple occasions.

Obviously PL has to be taken seriously, considering his success, but I personally can't see him as a bad/lacking character, I don't see how anyone can. When I play Nightwolf, it doesn't feel like I have the same issues as If I were playing Lao, I'd kill for his maneuverability.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Wow, so you have to think a little and make reads when point-blank instead of mindlessly pressure, character must be shit. Down 3 beats everybody's strings, you have a 6f mid-hitting launcher god damnit. Or you can just counter poke.
 
Perfect Legend

Perfect Legend

Noob
PND_Ketchup said:
Kung Lao is a character you can't downplay. He's solid as a rock, this has been proven on multiple occasions.

Obviously PL has to be taken seriously, considering his success, but I personally can't see him as a bad/lacking character, I don't see how anyone can. When I play Nightwolf, it doesn't feel like I have the same issues as If I were playing Lao, I'd kill for his maneuverability.
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Dude you use Sektor so your d3 is ass. However you can crouch all of his teleports, jumps in and best combo starters. If you block spin that is an easy 40% for sektor and Kung Lao cant easily get around his zoning either without risking getting punished himself.

Is manueverability is so good. What do you do when you get in vs a char who just mashes d3 and mixes that up with random blocking? Only options are spin or throw. Don't jump cause your jump in will whiff and you get whiff punished. Please elaborate since he is so good
 
Perfect Legend

Perfect Legend

Noob
Phosferrax said:
Wow, so you have to think a little and make reads when point-blank instead of mindlessly pressure, character must be shit.
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Oh but Cyrax, Kitana, Kenshi, Cage, Kabal, Smoke its ok for them not to have to think......

They don't have to make reads they just poke you with safe hit confirmable combo starters. Funny how Kung Lao who is apparently this SUPER CHAR has to work much harder than the chars hes apparently in the same tier with to get damage.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Perfect Legend said:
Jax is weak to crouch but he has good enough zoning to compensate for that with unblockable ground pound, ground pound cancels, energy wave which recovers fast. For players who try to counter zone him he has ex dash punch and for players mashing crouching normals he can do du4 to jump over it and hit them. His f4 will also hit crouching normals and people crouching if they aren't blocking and at least with meter he can do f4 enhanced du4 overhead. He also has f3 and b1 which are fast enough to use as pokes because most people will be crouching looking out for f4 to try to punish thus opening that up and his grab. in the corner he has a 100% combo with 3 bars of meter but most people will breaker and keep themselves in the corner allowing him to continue pressuring them until they die. Vs a good portion of the cast f41 cant be crouched so he can use that on chars like Cyrax who have a lower hit box but for some reason he has to block the 2nd hit allowing him to build a lot of meter. jax also has his air gotcha grab to use as an anti air that will pretty much beat everything in the air cause of his invincibility. Jax also can use dash punch for mobility to get around zoning characters. f4 also cant be mashed under with d3's while its on the screen and its 8 frames and has good range so opponents wont be able to just move around freely in footsie range cause of f4's range and speed forcing the opponent to block which allows jax to come in and do grabs or overheads.

I WISH KUNG LAO had something AT LEAST like that. Hell I would take Jax's f4 problem over kung lao's problems. Cause 2 and 1 begin high you can just crouch and hit d3 and not worry about getting hit unless he does a spin which has NO RANGE WHAT SO EVER.
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If you start breaking down other characters the same way, you're going to have to apply the same arguments to them as well. For example, Jax has paltry midscreen damage without an unsafe jip, he cannot GP or GP cancel against characters that can use fast-advancing specials on reaction, and GP does not connect when a lot of characters d4, which makes it next to useless in some situations. His overhead is extremely slow and can be poked out of on reaction, forcing you to spend meter to make it effective in a lot of cases.

You mention corner damage, which is funny because KL is one of the characters that can get out of corner at will.

A d4 will blow dash punch up, and in some cases this leads to combo. Saying that f413 works against half the cast is like saying that half the cast can't compete with KL's 7-frame starter and 6-frame spin. Sure people can poke, but you can't win an entire match from crouch. At some point you have to stand up and fight.

You've been more successful with KL than anyone else, and no one can take that away from you. But you are also picking on all of KL's weaknesses while up-playing everyone else's strengths. That doesn't seem like a balanced criticism.
 
Perfect Legend

Perfect Legend

Noob
CrimsonShadow said:
If you start breaking down other characters the same way, you're going to have to apply the same arguments to them as well. For example, Jax has paltry midscreen damage without an unsafe jip, he cannot GP or GP cancel against characters that can use fast-advancing specials on reaction, and GP does not connect when a lot of characters d4, which makes it next to useless in some situations. His overhead is extremely slow and can be poked out of on reaction, forcing you to spend meter to make it effective in a lot of cases.

You mention corner damage, which is funny because KL is one of the characters that can get out of corner at will.

A d4 will blow dash punch up, and in some cases this leads to combo. Saying that f413 works against half the cast is like saying that half the cast can't compete with KL's 7-frame starter and 6-frame spin. Sure people can poke, but you can't win an entire match from crouch. At some point you have to stand up and fight.

You've been more successful with KL than anyone else, and no one can take that away from you. But you are also picking on all of KL's weaknesses while up-playing everyone else's strengths. That doesn't seem like a balanced criticism.
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KL beats Jax in the match up but Jax does better against the cast overall.
 
Treadmill

Treadmill

Noob
Jesus christ. 3 time EVO champ complaining about the character he used to destroy everyone with in 2 of those evos. Lao isn't perfect. That's the idea. Every character under Lao has way more gripes than this crap.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Perfect Legend said:
Oh but Cyrax, Kitana, Kenshi, Cage, Kabal, Smoke its ok for them not to have to think......

They don't have to make reads they just poke you with safe hit confirmable combo starters. Funny how Kung Lao who is apparently this SUPER CHAR has to work much harder than the chars hes apparently in the same tier with to get damage.
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What can cyrax do? 2 is 12 frames and the rest of his shit starts high. What can kitana do? mash d1? Kung Lao's 21 and 24 are hit confirmable as i'm sure you know.

What can cage do outside of d4 range? Kabal doesn't count because he's broken
 
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