So supposedly there's some nerfs coming for the god tier?

[JennyCage]

Sure, I'll try to break down why unstuffable teleport startup is bullshit. Like I said twice before, the move is a get out of jail free card. It makes him impervious to being aggressed. You cannot zone Raiden nor even pre-emptively stuff his teleport unlike every other character in the game with a teleport except Smoke. You cannot jump in on Raiden because he will simply teleport. You cannot launch specials or any kind of normal strings on him because he will teleport. You cannot lock Raiden down. Unstuffable teleport startup means Raiden is ALWAYS the aggressor in a fight and the opponent must play reactively by punishing Raiden's mistakes. Raiden is constantly delivering chip to his opponent and building meter, while his opponent can only ever punish.

NRS balanced similar teleports (Cyrax and Cyber's) by making them vulnerable during their startups. Attacking teleports (Scorpion, Ermac, Mileena, Skarlet, Sektor) are all interruptable during their startups. The exception as I mentioned is Smoke, his teleport is "better" than Ermac's and Scorpion's because it's equally as punishable on block but not startup. The difference is Smoke can't combo off his teleport while Ermac and Scorpion can if they hit the opponent in the air. These are clear, understandable design decisions on balance. Raiden's teleport however flies in the face of all established paradigms and is the biggest single reason he is the second best character in the game behind Lao and has virtually no bad matchups. The skill epitomizes brainlessness by having few weaknesses. I know you're about to scream, "BUT YOU CAN PUNISH IT AT THE END!" Sure, if you wait for it. This does nothing to negate the fact that you cannot punish his teleports when they're performed to escape aggressive actions. You can ONLY punish them by WAITING to punish. Raiden STILL escapes any and all offense a player can launch at him without even having to put any thought into it.

Look, I understand Raiden is your homie, and nobody likes the thought of their mains being nerfed. But try to understand that Raiden is not balanced and this IS the reason why. If they made his teleport startup vulnerable like Cyrax and Cyber's, it wouldn't make Raiden garbage, it would make him have to use some more thought. That's all.

Edit: Just want to add that if this change is implemented he should be able to teleport in the air like Cyber and Cyrax too.

 

[notjuice]

as someone who's played this game for thousands of games, many with raiden, i've never seen raiden ever been knocked out of the startup of his teleport.

the point is, raiden can react to any move with teleport. just because it MAY be possible (and im still not convinced it's possible or even viable) to hit him out of teleport doesn't mean it's possible to do it reactionary-wise.

jenny is right, and raidenwins you really need to understand why raiden is broken and start working on methods of playing raiden that don't require his current teleport. i know many ermacs that survived the nerfs, kunglao was nerfed so many times. you have no idea that raiden will be killed. NRS can't even seem to rope Kung Lao in line, what makes you think they'll nerf raiden into oblivion?

if you want to be a competitive player, you have to learn to recognize what is powerful and what developers might have their eye on, and learning how to survive despite it. i have a friend, MK Veteran JJ who has shown up to ReveLAtions and some other tournies. during the question of cyrax's bomb nerf when people didn't realize all of cyrax's other traps, MK vet stopped using the old bomb trap when people started posting about it being a future nerf, and he learned how to play cyrax despite it, instead finding all sorts of new traps that people weren't even thinking about because bomb trap was so powerful and easy that people didnt care about finding other stuff. i think most people could learn from him.

 

[KOA CAPONE]

nrs is taking out subzero reset .

 

[CAPSLOCK CAPTAI]

Sure, I'll try to break down why unstuffable teleport startup is bullshit. Like I said twice before, the move is a get out of jail free card. It makes him impervious to being aggressed. You cannot zone Raiden nor even pre-emptively stuff his teleport unlike every other character in the game with a teleport except Smoke. You cannot jump in on Raiden because he will simply teleport. You cannot launch specials or any kind of normal strings on him because he will teleport. You cannot lock Raiden down. Unstuffable teleport startup means Raiden is ALWAYS the aggressor in a fight and the opponent must play reactively by punishing Raiden's mistakes. Raiden is constantly delivering chip to his opponent and building meter, while his opponent can only ever punish.

NRS balanced similar teleports (Cyrax and Cyber's) by making them vulnerable during their startups. Attacking teleports (Scorpion, Ermac, Mileena, Skarlet, Sektor) are all interruptable during their startups. The exception as I mentioned is Smoke, his teleport is "better" than Ermac's and Scorpion's because it's equally as punishable on block but not startup. The difference is Smoke can't combo off his teleport while Ermac and Scorpion can if they hit the opponent in the air. These are clear, understandable design decisions on balance. Raiden's teleport however flies in the face of all established paradigms and is the biggest single reason he is the second best character in the game behind Lao and has virtually no bad matchups. The skill epitomizes brainlessness by having few weaknesses. I know you're about to scream, "BUT YOU CAN PUNISH IT AT THE END!" Sure, if you wait for it. This does nothing to negate the fact that you cannot punish his teleports when they're performed to escape aggressive actions. You can ONLY punish them by WAITING to punish. Raiden STILL escapes any and all offense a player can launch at him without even having to put any thought into it.

Look, I understand Raiden is your homie, and nobody likes the thought of their mains being nerfed. But try to understand that Raiden is not balanced and this IS the reason why. If they made his teleport startup vulnerable like Cyrax and Cyber's, it wouldn't make Raiden garbage, it would make him have to use some more thought. That's all.

Edit: Just want to add that if this change is implemented he should be able to teleport in the air like Cyber and Cyrax too.

TL;DR

You sound like an online player who thinks that teleport > everything in the game because of laggy netcode.

 

[G4S KT]

Teleport needs to be interruptible. No legitimate argument can be mounted against this.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[Subby]

TL;DR

You sound like an online player who thinks that teleport > everything in the game because of laggy netcode.

It does, save for pokes. Go and play some "Good" Online Raidens. Go. try it.

 

[Cold Case]

Yes Raidens teleport is VERY good and yes it can escape pressure a lot of the time but you are greatly exaggerating. You CAN still lock him down maybe not with all characters but without a doubt characters like Liu Kang, Kung Lao, and Johnny Cage will make it impossible for him to simply teleport to escape their pressure. Cross-ups also negate teleport and allow more pressure because if you teleport you just end up right in front of them and eat a combo.

And I swear I've been knocked out of start-up a couple of times and thought it was bullshit because I didn't think it was possible. If you could literally teleport on wake up EVERY single time and escape 100% pressure then that would be ridiculous but I just know that's not the case.

But honestly I wouldn't mind if they made it slightly less "get out of jail free" IF they would give him more ways to open the opponent up. Yea sure I can teleport all day now but what's the point if I never actually land an attack?

 

[Levaranoia]

Good, I hope raiden gets nerfed, always hated the character and his annoying teleport/superman are retarded.

 

[TWZTID]

can Jax's en gp knock Raiden out of start up? i know it's alot slower than the previous mk game but..... Raiden's feet NEVER left the ground in mkdc and gp's knocked Raiden out of teleport. Since the en gp hits full screen, do you think it will connect?

 

[Albo]

you somehow read my mind all the way from new york Cold Case and posted everything i was thinking for me. ^_^ it's true though regarding the tele start up, i've been punched, kicked, spun, grabbed on the start up frames of my tele many times.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

I have not seen a teleport stuffed before. If it can be stuffed, it is news to me. And even if it can be stuffed, it would be the first 1-2 frames, an irrelevant factor.

 

[Somberness]

You can stuff the teleport, I tested it but it almost never happens. According to Paulo Garcia, there is only 1(?) frame after startup before he becomes invulnerable, JOPs was actually stuffed on stream at one point vs Osu 16-bit. You could tell because Raiden made the "heyah" sound he does during a teleport but he got hit so it never came out. You know, it is already fast enough and having him turn invincible that quickly does seem a little too good.

 

[shinzo123]

You can stuff Raiden's teleport with a throw and d1's

and to the guy who had the nerve to complain about not being able to jump in on Raiden? Kung Lao, Reptile, Baraka, Jax, Sheeva, Lui Kang, Cyber subzero, Kano, Subzero, Noob Saibot, Rain, Kenshi, Smoke, all say hi.

Stop being a scrub, if you mess with the teleport Raiden loses his BnB 334 tele shocker. I like that combo because it looks cool.

 

[babalook]

i think the teleport should get nerfed and his vicinity blast trap should stay(atleast it requires some thought). Raiden seems to be the only character that controls every matchup to the point were the opponent is constantly in a mixup anywere on the stage at all times, not to mention even without the teleport BS he has good combos, normals, and traps.

 

[babalook]

nrs is taking out subzero reset .

wtfffff why on earth would they do such a thing the reset is a completely balanced 50/50 mixup that i think sub zero needs. Unless they are planning on buffing him after removeing this it is going to cause problems.

 

[bigmiracle]

This. What if NRS doesn't want a tier list and in fact wants every character to be on relatively equal footing so that player skill is the determining factor over game mechanics? Weird concept to have all characters on as close to equal footing as possible. I honestly don't know if this next statement is 100% accurate, but it seems to me that SFIV has a dozen or more characters no one plays because they aren't "S-tier". That sounds super fun...

You mean SFIV has about thirty characters that aren't played because they're not S tiers. Even the finals was just Fei, Yun, Viper, with Poongko's Seth and Flash's Gief thrown in.

But I agree, I don't mind the devs constantly tuning the game. Keeps the game interesting imo.

And can we get some goddamn buffs for Baraka, Sheeva, and Quan Chi please? Shit!

 

[JennyCage]

and to the guy who had the nerve to complain about not being able to jump in on Raiden? Kung Lao, Reptile, Baraka, Jax, Sheeva, Lui Kang, Cyber subzero, Kano, Subzero, Noob Saibot, Rain, Kenshi, Smoke, all say hi.

Last time I checked, I could bait out all their "don't touch me's" or stuff them with a projectile. Too bad I can't stuff Raiden's teleport, huh?

 

[MK Raptor]

You mean SFIV has about thirty characters that aren't played because they're not S tiers. Even the finals was just Fei, Yun, Viper, with Poongko's Seth and Flash's Gief thrown in. !

It was a Top 8, you want 30 characters repped in the Top 8? Random select for thousands of dollars? Good idea champ!

:hand:

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

can Jax's en gp knock Raiden out of start up? i know it's alot slower than the previous mk game but..... Raiden's feet NEVER left the ground in mkdc and gp's knocked Raiden out of teleport. Since the en gp hits full screen, do you think it will connect?

Maybe, I'm home alone (like the movie) right now, or I'd test it. I know when I was just playing through arcade ladder for shits and giggles, Goro's stomp would kill my teleport. Maybe it's the same.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Oh, please. Elbow Dash you can predict easily and punish. When Raiden teleports I know that 3 scenarios are about to happen - 334 (on block once I attempt to crossover/punish I'll immediatly be hit by superman), sweep or a untechable throw - hell you can get a guranteed throw every single time by doing this bullshit because everyone's in fear of 334 setting you up for a combo. Let's just simplify it for you guys, don't bother with sweep, no need. You can just use the two brainless scenarios instead, that's the joy of the broken throw mechanics in this game paired with that bullshit.

 

[Raiman]

for all the people saying teleport isn't interuptable on startup, i play raiden all the time and i know that when lui kang does his b3 1 2 and gets blocked then does it again right after, raiden cannot teleport out of this, when i try to teleport out you can hear the teleport sound, raiden is gone for a split second, then you get hit by the low kick, teleport fails and you eat 40% damage. this has happened plenty of times and i dont try it anymore. same with johnny cage strings but im not sure witch ones, theres a couple

 

[lazybird123]

I'm really surprised by the people that say Raiden can't have his teleport interrupted. The reality is IT can, but what seems to be the case is no one actually knows how/when to do it. I only play Raiden and I've had it happen to me a few times, and like a poster said a couple of posts above me, I also thought it was wierd because I thought that couldn't happen and was using it as a get out of jail free card like the other poster said. I still don't think it should be nerfed because, at the highest level, I saw that it wasn't used like most of us lower level players use it, and as such, isn't an issue.

 

[Loot]

Raiden's tele startup CAN be stuffed with d1s and throws. Please test before you start running your mouth.

 

[Theme]

Raiden's tele startup CAN be stuffed with d1s and throws. Please test before you start running your mouth.

Proof? Because I am sure as hell it is impossible, mainly because his startup teleport is much faster than the grabbing or d1.......... Please post some proof before you start running your mouth.

 

[Lyuben]

Good, I hope raiden gets nerfed, always hated the character and his annoying teleport/superman are retarded.

Good, I hope reptile gets nerfed, always hated the character and his annoying elbow dash/force balls are retarded