Match-up Discussion Smoke Match-Up Discussion Thread (2012 Post-EVO Update)

[Z-911-Z]

Kabal and Sonya are weird to me, sometimes those matches feel more even and sometimes they feel like Smoke is at a slight disadvantage. Especially since Sonya has a much better projectile to think about throwing at you, where as most decent Cage players with MU experience are never going to use it at all and you basically just feel like you're constantly chased down and trying desperately to set something up against him. It doesn't help that I find Cage's corner game much scarier than Sonya's.

You might as well make Kano a 7-3 as well, it's not like him being stripped of zoning is any better than Sindel not being able to barf shit at you.

 

[ForeverKing]

Hahaha I have this as my ringtone for when people text me, I love it. Sometimes it randomly goes off when people are in the middle of conversation and the timing just makes everyone laugh. One time it went off in math though when everyone was all quiet and taking notes and everyone started staring at me

 

[GGA Wafflez]

dude one smoke bomb and EX DASH good night

im telling you young pubescent waffelz

Listen to me on this one

i would gladly play any skarlet and get a better understanding of the MU if you really feel that way... you just mentioned skarlet players are finally getting their combos down (although skar has been doing them consistently imo since anaheim.)

 

[FrothyOmen]

I actually agree with Smoke - KL being a 4-6 in KL favor as well. I can't bring myself to call it a 3-7 anymore, despite the fact that I never win it.

 

[PPJ]

Wafflez comin' to GGA anytime this week? I wanna run some games with my fellow youngster

 

[GGA Wafflez]

Wafflez, I know you get to play Jeremiah more than any other Smoke player...but why do you think this is only a 6-4? I would have to say that it feels more like heavy advantage for Smoke. I still think that KL and Kabal 7-3 Smoke at the moment, but I could see them being 6-4 I guess due to the reset.

i really dont like throwing down 7-3's unless i am totally sure... it probably is. only reasons why i say 6-4 is cause he cant mindlessly armor out of w/e she gets after a jump punch and telestomp can be mixed up to mess up your teleport in order to punish it... smoke away works but you just reset the situation. jeremiah is the only tournament viable sheeva and i know this MU better than any1 else... i will make changes

 

[GGA Wafflez]

Wafflez comin' to GGA anytime this week? I wanna run some games with my fellow youngster

gonna be deeer tuesdaaay

 

[RiBBz22]

no dude hear me out

3/4 screen away when she sees bomb ex dash (Armor) into full combo reset into that sweet juicy hitbox

She has to use her armor up a lot to be able to get in safely though and Smoke can whiff punish her hard if he is spaced correctly. I play RedRaptor's and Birdsong's Skarlet quite a bit and I think the match is probably a 5-5 tbh. Once you let her get in it is tough to get out, so keeping the spacing right is the biggest key...and like you said if she gets a read it is good damage but if Smoke makes a good read on Skarlet he is punishing harder.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Agreed with Shang, although it could definitely be worse. Shang can't play footsies without taking huge risks and getting put into a 70% plus combo. I actually think that Liu beats Smoke because he keeps him honest with IAF and I think Smoke has a really difficult time up close (similar to Cage). All of Liu's normals are faster and poking against him is DEATH.

 

[GGA Wafflez]

Agreed with Shang, although it could definitely be worse. Shang can't play footsies without taking huge risks and getting put into a 70% plus combo. I actually think that Liu beats Smoke because he keeps him honest with IAF and I think Smoke has a really difficult time up close (similar to Cage). All of Liu's normals are faster and poking against him is DEATH.

smoke can out range lui w/ b2 in terms of normals and beats him on wakeup. in pressure it's like cage where you have to d3 to break pressure then smoke away or b2/d4

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Finally it's agreed that smoke-kl is not 3-7?

<3 Wafflez

 

[RiBBz22]

smoke can out range lui w/ b2 in terms of normals and beats him on wakeup. in pressure it's like cage where you have to d3 to break pressure then smoke away or b2/d4

Yea, the thing that sucks about that MU for Smoke is the random advantage of b312 for Kang, but I don't factor that BS into the MU chart and agree it is 5-5 as I have argued previously with the Liu Kang'ers

 

[16 Bit]

The Kitana, Kung Lao, Kabal and Johnny numbers are a pleasant surprise. Good job Thomas.

 

[GGA Wafflez]

Yea, the thing that sucks about that MU for Smoke is the random advantage of b312 for Kang, but I don't factor that BS into the MU chart and agree it is 5-5 as I have argued previously with the Liu Kang'ers

lui kang'ers

 

[GGA Wafflez]

The Kitana, Kabal and Johnny numbers are a pleasant surprise. Good job Thomas.

i will never admit in person... but online where every1 is serious, i must be too

 

[STRYKIE]

I agree with 6-4 Smoke-Scorp.

How does Cyblax change the Cyrax matchup though? It seems his tools would make it worse if anything but, I'unno..

 

[16 Bit]

i will never admit in person... but online where every1 is serious, i must be too

LBSH you just know if you post your real MU chart the MU police will haul you off to downplayers prison.

 

[GGA Wafflez]

I agree with 6-4 Smoke-Scorp.

How does Cyblax change the Cyrax matchup though? It seems his tools would make it worse if anything but, I'unno..

invincible teleport is a big difference... a full combo difference

 

[RiBBz22]

invincible teleport is a big difference... a full combo difference

ya I love when robo cyrax teleports it is like christmas

 

[REO]

Kabal vs Smoke is 7-3.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

She has to use her armor up a lot to be able to get in safely though and Smoke can whiff punish her hard if he is spaced correctly. I play RedRaptor's and Birdsong's Skarlet quite a bit and I think the match is probably a 5-5 tbh. Once you let her get in it is tough to get out, so keeping the spacing right is the biggest key...and like you said if she gets a read it is good damage but if Smoke makes a good read on Skarlet he is punishing harder.

play emp scar

 

[STRYKIE]

invincible teleport is a big difference... a full combo difference

Fair enough. But Smoke still has it easier stuffing Cyblax's teleport before it becomes invincible than most. Just sayin.

 

[NKZero]

I don't see how Sub Zero is 7-3 tbh. 6-4 is more towards my line of thinking. Wafflez?

Also really good chart. I agree with a ton of the MU's you put down.

 

[RiBBz22]

F it, I don't care if I get blown up all I can do is look at the Cage 4-6 posted here RIGHT next to the Kabal 4-6 and I am like NO....

 

[GGA Wafflez]

I don't see how Sub Zero is 7-3 tbh. 6-4 is more towards my line of thinking. Wafflez?

Also really good chart. I agree with a ton of the MU's you put down.

smoke blows up sub zero in a couple of ways... he makes his ice clone almost irrelevant w/ smoke bomb and smoke port (goes right through), can full punish ice clone on wake up or after 214, and breaks sub's amazing corner game with a simple <- -> 3. sub never has the advantage in this mu cause he can't chase down or run away in a sufficient manner.