Question Skarlet Changes in Patch?

[Ninj]

Well the daggers and throw are confirmed to be fixed so no problem there. But I agree that the glitch is stupid, obviously the dash was designed for you to have a choice of what you do at the end, you can't have it all. If it's still in post patch then I will do it, but then if they keep it they should make as if it's actually a move she has, not some weird thing that you can abuse the system with if you time it absolutely perfectly.

It hardly takes perfect timing to do a slideslash. Bah you're on PSN - if you were on XBL, I could help you. Just go into practice mode and train on it for a bit - it's really not that hard. Skarlet has some odd timing on her combos, but so does everyone in the cast (excepting Scorpion and Sub-Zero. In my opinion, they have what I would call "straight forward" timing on their combos).

Yes 17% back throw is being fixed to be like everyone else's. There's no reason for her throw to be any different damage-wise.

Something about her daggers are being nerfed. Not fixed. Nerfed. Skarlet is no different - when her moves get toned down, it's a nerf, not a fix.

@Gambit - no I don't care about hypotheticals. Why are you wasting your time in some fantasy land where something may or may not happen?

A low into a overhead popup. It is like saying Kung Lao can combo a spin right after a low hat, except the spin is an overhead

Yup, it's exactly like that, if you ignore the weaknesses of the move too. If Kung Lao could low hat into overhead spin and I could see it coming and learn how to block low, then high, and return a full punish, I would be fine with it. As it stands, you can see Skarlet's slideslashing coming, and if you block low then high, you will always block it. If she tries to downslash you, she has a lot of recovery on it and you can simply dash in for a full punish.

It's weird - people tend to ignore Skarlet's weaknesses when talking about her moves/setups. She does have plenty of them by the way, in her current state.

 

[REO]

So how do you guys feel about Skarlet not being able to machine gun dagger cancel anymore but Kabal can still machine gun air fireball?

 

[JennyCage]

It's stupid as fuck and should be removed from him too.

 

[Past]

Just asking, assuming they take it out (I know we don't know and it's just as likely it will stay), where will it leave her mixup game. But obviously you don't care about hypathetical situations so whatever, I was just curious.

Without slideslashing, her mixup becomes trash. Overhead is too slow even when used after red dash (this is reactable online). Most of her mixups options are unsafe but unlike scorpion, they are easy to defend against. Her normals are also on the slow side. All in all, don't attempt any mixup without meter for EX downslash, because that is harder to react to than regular downslash. Dagger canceling is dangerous for pressure and its no good for setting up tick throws (daggers can be ducked).

I have no clue why scarlet's daggers are getting nerfed while other characters are allowed to chuck fireballs at around the same rate. Even if she ends up being mid tier after these nerfs, there would no reason to choose her over Kabal or Kitana (better normals and great zoning).

 

[HurlingDervish]

So how do you guys feel about Skarlet not being able to machine gun dagger cancel anymore but Kabal can still machine gun air fireball?

enjoying the hitbox I see

I will say that the thought definitely popped in my head the instant I saw Eric Warda do his robotic tight IAF the other night on stream. I've seen them before but, yea its kinda ridiculous to focus on Skarlet only, especially since hers were still more punishable than Kabal's, correct?

 

[PND OmegaK]

The worst part is, they're giving sub and reptile armour on EX slide AND nerfing her dagger cancels.

 

[shura30]

for what i've seen, skarlet rate of fire is higher than kabal's
plus, iagbs disappear if you're too fast shooting them and they're higher projectiles

if you jump skarlet's you need to block immediately because the second one is already on you
btw isn't the patch note saying that they're going to add only a couple of frames?is the whole dagger cancel going to be removed?

 

[M2Dave]

Dagger Cancel

Pros:

- fast fire rate
- good hitbox
- AA dagger leads to minor yet hit confirmable combos
- second hit of dagger comes in handy sometimes (e.g., vs. Kabal's EX nomad dash)

Cons:

- only 3% of damage
- poor block and hit advantage
- Skarlet cannot block immediately after each dagger cancel

iaGB

Pros:

- extremely quick recovery with ability to block immediately
- fast fire rate
- 9% of damage
- AA iaGB leads to full combos anywhere on the screen
- solid advantage on block; tremendous advantage on hit

Cons:

- OK hitbox
- iaGBs start disappearing when done too fast

You guys be the judges.

 

[salvificblood]

All I know is, I can approach Kabal with either Sub or Noob. I can't approach Skarlet if the Skarlet has their timing down on the dagger cancels because of the pushback, or it's much more difficult, in any case.

 

[PND OmegaK]

The dagger cancels biggest weakness is that you cant block straight after cancelling, if the other person has the zoning advantage then it's pretty pointless in even attempting to do them.

I think toning them down is needed honestly, I've seen a lot of people struggle to even move against me whilst doing them. The Reptile/Sub zero matchups will be interesting to say the least.

 

[Ninj]

Without slideslashing, her mixup becomes trash. Overhead is too slow even when used after red dash (this is reactable online). Most of her mixups options are unsafe but unlike scorpion, they are easy to defend against. Her normals are also on the slow side. All in all, don't attempt any mixup without meter for EX downslash, because that is harder to react to than regular downslash. Dagger canceling is dangerous for pressure and its no good for setting up tick throws (daggers can be ducked).

I have no clue why scarlet's daggers are getting nerfed while other characters are allowed to chuck fireballs at around the same rate. Even if she ends up being mid tier after these nerfs, there would no reason to choose her over Kabal or Kitana (better normals and great zoning).

According to Tom Brady's post-patch tier list, Skarlet is in the "A" list. Once the patch rolls in, I'll start recording my fights and show you just how deadly Skarlet can be. I'm waiting until the patch because I don't feel like hearing the nonsense about Skarlet being "broken" or having her "glitches fixed". She's getting nerfed because she's too powerful. NRS sees this, and I respect the decisions they're making. I'm not convinced slideslashing will be taken out, either.

Bottom line: NRS said, when Skarlet first came out, that she was the most technical character in the game. I agree with this, and would also say she requires a unique type of finesse, not unlike every other character in the roster. Whether or not you can achieve this finesse is another question!

 

[Past]

According to Tom Brady's post-patch tier list, Skarlet is in the "A" list. Once the patch rolls in, I'll start recording my fights and show you just how deadly Skarlet can be. I'm waiting until the patch because I don't feel like hearing the nonsense about Skarlet being "broken" or having her "glitches fixed". She's getting nerfed because she's too powerful. NRS sees this, and I respect the decisions they're making. I'm not convinced slideslashing will be taken out, either.

Bottom line: NRS said, when Skarlet first came out, that she was the most technical character in the game. I agree with this, and would also say she requires a unique type of finesse, not unlike every other character in the roster. Whether or not you can achieve this finesse is another question!

How can that list be post patch when he doesn't know all of the changes? That was clearly a pre-patch list that has Scarlet in "A" tier (too powerful huh). After the patch she will get worse for those reasons. If you are still have not disproved what I said about her post patch mixup. If you can be successful with her, then great. As a fellow Scarlet user, I'll be happy for you. But you can't deny that the removal of these glitches, and the nerf to her daggers will make her harder to play.

 

[Ninj]

How can that list be post patch when he doesn't know all of the changes? That was clearly a pre-patch list that has Scarlet in "A" tier (too powerful huh). After the patch she will get worse for those reasons. If you are still have not disproved what I said about her post patch mixup. If you can be successful with her, then great. As a fellow Scarlet user, I'll be happy for you. But you can't deny that the removal of these glitches, and the nerf to her daggers will make her harder to play.

Wait until the patch comes out to try and prove or disprove her mix-up game. Slideslashing and dashslashing are currently both important parts of that mix-up game, and they overshadow the usefulness of other combos.

Tom Brady said it was a post-patch tier list. Don't be dense - NRS doesn't make changes the day before a patch goes out. They've had the game patched almost completely the way they want it for quite some time. That's how development works. They are continually making tweaks, but the mechanics they intend to change are in their version of the game - it's a matter of making it work properly.

Again, we have no reason to believe at this point that SS'ing and DS'ing will be taken out. I don't care whether they're "intended" or not - in the latest patch news there were updates on Skarlet's dagger and throw - nothing else.

 

[Past]

"The last thread has been run over with patch after patch after patch and all of the comments in that thread are moot. This thread will hold the most current list and be updated after the next and hopefully final balance patch.

these tier groups are listed in no order..."

First post Tom Brady made when he created that list. That list is a pre-patch list and Scarlet is listed at "A".

 

[Ninj]

"The last thread has been run over with patch after patch after patch and all of the comments in that thread are moot. This thread will hold the most current list and be updated after the next and hopefully final balance patch.

these tier groups are listed in no order..."

First post Tom Brady made when he created that list. That list is a pre-patch list and Scarlet is listed at "A".

Oops, you're right. Sorry.

Still, there's no reason to believe SS/DS'ing will be removed.

 

[Earthbound360]

Dash slashing into an overhead is actually nearly useless outside of combos, so it's not something you guys should even be worrying about. It doesn't mix up because if the opponent blocks the low hit of the red dash, you aren't able to do an overhead. It'd be sick if you could because that would provide Skarlet with a very strong mixup game, but you cant. Dash slashing into the overhead is only really useful for certain combos in which you can land a downslash over an upslash for damage purposes.

 

[Ninj]

Dash slashing into an overhead is actually nearly useless outside of combos, so it's not something you guys should even be worrying about. It doesn't mix up because if the opponent blocks the low hit of the red dash, you aren't able to do an overhead. It'd be sick if you could because that would provide Skarlet with a very strong mixup game, but you cant. Dash slashing into the overhead is only really useful for certain combos in which you can land a downslash over an upslash for damage purposes.

The opponent has to low block then high block, not just low block. This is no different from any other low-medium mixups (Quan Chi for instance is a perfect example). You're incorrect to say it isn't a mix up.

 

[Earthbound360]

You missed the logic of my post. You cant chain the two moves one after another on a blockstring (if you can then I must be doing something wrong). If the red slide gets blocked, Skarlet will not be able to perform a downslash after it. If you hit them with the slide, or hit nothing at all, then you can cancel the slide into downslash, but not if yu get it blocked.

 

[Ninj]

You missed the logic of my post. You cant chain the two moves one after another on a blockstring (if you can then I must be doing something wrong). If the red slide gets blocked, Skarlet will not be able to perform a downslash after it. If you hit them with the slide, or hit nothing at all, then you can cancel the slide into downslash, but not if yu get it blocked.

You're doing something wrong

 

[Past]

Dash slashing into an overhead is actually nearly useless outside of combos, so it's not something you guys should even be worrying about. It doesn't mix up because if the opponent blocks the low hit of the red dash, you aren't able to do an overhead. It'd be sick if you could because that would provide Skarlet with a very strong mixup game, but you cant. Dash slashing into the overhead is only really useful for certain combos in which you can land a downslash over an upslash for damage purposes.

No it would not. After the low, you just block high, and you're free from both slashes. However, the fact that the slideslash itself gives scarlet a true 50/50 from downslash and slide is enough. She does not have anything else as far as mixups go.

 

[Ninj]

No it would not. After the low, you just block high, and you're free from both slashes. However, the fact that the slideslash itself gives scarlet a true 50/50 from downslash and slide is enough. She does not have anything else as far as mixups go.

Not trying to instigate, but I think you may be looking at her mixups too strictly. If a player is perfect, a mixup would never work on them. That's like me saying Quan Chi doesn't have a mixup game if I always block low then high (if need be). Part of a fight is the mind game, trying to anticipate. People fuck up, and there in lies the power of mixups.

 

[Past]

Not trying to instigate, but I think you may be looking at her mixups too strictly. If a player is perfect, a mixup would never work on them. That's like me saying Quan Chi doesn't have a mixup game if I always block low then high (if need be). Part of a fight is the mind game, trying to anticipate. People fuck up, and there in lies the power of mixups.

Anticipate what? As long as you block low then high, your free. Every time. The defender does not even have to think about it. The real mixup comes from the red dash into 50/50, not the slide.

 

[Earthbound360]

Well I stand corrected then. I swear I tried that mixup multiple times and Skarlet would just not slash for me. I'm getting a new MK disc tomorrow and I'm going to have to toy with that.

And this is a very potent mixup. A low to high string can really catch people off guard. Once they start anticipating it, go for the red dash > downslash instead.

I have another thing in theory fighter in the back of my mind but... what's Skarlet's frame data on a blocked slide?

 

[Ninj]

Anticipate what? As long as you block low then high, your free. Every time. The defender does not even have to think about it. The real mixup comes from the red dash into 50/50, not the slide.

There are more moves involved than just her red slide If that was her only way to trick someone into blocking low or high, I'd be more inclined to agree with you on being free every time.

Yes, correct - part of her mixup potential comes from dashslashing (red dash into slash). Another part is her slideslashing (red slide into slash)

 

[Past]

Well I stand corrected then. I swear I tried that mixup multiple times and Skarlet would just not slash for me. I'm getting a new MK disc tomorrow and I'm going to have to toy with that.

And this is a very potent mixup. A low to high string can really catch people off guard. Once they start anticipating it, go for the red dash > downslash instead.

I have another thing in theory fighter in the back of my mind but... what's Skarlet's frame data on a blocked slide?

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