Skarlet: Banned @ Evo? (All DLC officially banned for Evo 2011)

[DaiHuu]

I don't think she should be banned. It's up the the player to take the risk of short training to play her. If they want to take that journey, then they should be eligible to compete with the character, plus she's available on both systems, so why ban her?

 

[STORMS]

Well, 2 weeks was enough time at Powerup. And it was about a month between release and PDP and we saw some great matches there. Skarlett is in the game. She is available on both consoles. She should be fair game. If people have enough money to spend to go to EVO they surely must have enough to buy Skarlett. Its time we started shifting some responsibility back onto the players instead of on the game.

As for the rest of the discussion as to whether Skarlett could maybe,possibly have a broken tactic:
*compliments of David Sirlin*

Rob, using PU as an example was awesome... I didn't even think of that.

 

[Tim Static]

I don't think she should be banned. It's up the the player to take the risk of short training to play her. If they want to take that journey, then they should be eligible to compete with the character, plus she's available on both systems, so why ban her?

but thats only half of the equation. its about the match ups, and barely a month is very very iffy.

@ [user]Dark Rob[/user] & [user]Storms[/user]...
Not even sure if the PU is a fair thing to say because 99% of the field were on the same level before it started.

 

[Jaybo]

And Capcom, unlike NRS, actually know their own frame data so they can just look at the numbers and make sure infinates are not possible.

NRS dont know their frame data, so even they dont know if this character has infinates.

Ok I need to address this because it is not true. NRS did look at frame data for this game and have said so on numerous occassions. Capcom has had many infinites found in their games, so I am not sure why you are saying this.

Delays in patches are due to how the patching system works for both Sony and Microsoft. Honest.

 

[Jaybo]

Not even sure if the PU is a fair thing to say because 99% of the field were on the same level before it started.

Yeah, that should have been 100% but that's PU's fault. PDP got it right at least.

 

[Aetherius]

I think Skarlet shouldn't be banned (until something has been found). I think there is enough time yet to get a good idea of what she's capable of. no, it is not enough time to find out everything. she may or may not be balanced. but it's in tournaments like these where we get to find out. we get to see the character's true strenghts and weaknesses. so I believe banning her will just delay this opportunity. for all we know Skarlet may actually be balanced, and another character from the default roster turns out to be the broken one by someone who figured out something we haven't seen before. I know having a new character could cause an issue for match ups..but I think any good player should be able to find a way to adapt.

 

[aj1701]

2. We are STILL learning things about characters from day 1(April 19th) that had to be patched out in the day before CEO(another major tournament)... it must be considered that this is also a possibility with Skarlet as well.

So this is why I think she should be allowed. Yes, there's only about a month to learn to counter her, but anyone that wants to actually use her in the tourny only has a month to learn her as well.

So people need to learn to counter just one character, while anyone that wants to try her has to learn the matchup against ALL the others.

I'd think that'd but her at more of a disadvantage to use her than an advantage to using her.

 

[801 Vegeta]

Don't ban Skarlet. AE came out a 2 weeks before Skarlet and most of the country has not had any practice against the 4 new Characters in AE. So that is about the same as the Skarlet situation. To be consistent I think she should be playable.

 

[Kwon]

2 weeks time was enough for allowing it into the Powerup-Tournament.

1 month should be enough for Skarlet.

 

[Cat]

Ban a character I spent money to get. No thanks. Keep her. Evo ppl just don't want to pay to get her on all the consoles. Lol

 

[Zebster]

Evo ppl just don't want to pay to get her on all the consoles. Lol

Now now, saying things like this doesn't help anyone.

 

[Bad Lieutenant]

If you want to be the best, you'll do whatever it takes.

Also, I think she should be banned in the interest of fairness. However, in the interest of consistency as it relates to the SSFIV:AE point that a few people have made, she should be allowed. Personal opinion on the matter - banned.

 

[Zerosoulreaver]

A few things with this:

-You can't compare games and say "well AE just came out and they did it". You forget that AE was available in arcades way before consoles. People did have access to it in places such as China town and in Japan. MK has no arcade cabinet.

-Skarlet is still being patched, we don't know for sure what that may mean for her. We also have no sure day of when she will be altered.

-Skarlet is still new. She wasn't a character we all had some idea of how she played. We had no idea what she would be like at all.

I think she should be banned for Evo, but allowed at later tornys. Main reason is because she is still being fixed and she just came out. If people had access to the Skarlet that will be the final product then I would say sure. However NRS said they are changing her backthrow "and other things".

Also saying someone is going to EVO means they have money is false. Many people go to EVO to make money.

 

[Tom Brady]

im neutral here as i see both sides. but i will point out that ppl saying "allow skarlet!" are the same king of ppl saying "buff raiden, he needs more, i just dont see why hes top". my point is, ppl dont know what they are asking for.

 

[RWDY Nori]

You have an entire month to prepare for the character. If you enter a tournament, you are acknowledging you are prepared and DLC is part of being prepared. This isn't released the day before, it's a month before, you can fit in LOTS of online/offline sessions to learn her

 

[LordxMugen]

You have an entire month to prepare for the character. If you enter a tournament, you are acknowledging you are prepared and DLC is part of being prepared. This isn't released the day before, it's a month before, you can fit in LOTS of online/offline sessions to learn her

TRUTH!!

 

[eskuAdradit0]

I'm also gonna declare myself as neutral.
Giving it a much more philosophical question, this is an logical issue(as ignorantiam), which comes to this:
1. I believe Skarlet is okay and should be allowed since she's not proven to be broken yet.
2. I believe Skarlet should be banned because we cannot prove yet she's not broken.
Seeing both, I choose to not to pick either, although I'd go for not banning her until proven to be broken. ("I'm innocent as long as I'm proven to be guilty". Might be a logical fallacie, but works with laws.)

Wether she gets banned or not, I cannot wait for EVO!

 

[Zebster]

I'm also gonna declare myself as neutral.
Giving it a much more philosophical question, this is an logical issue(as ignorantiam), which comes to this:
1. I believe Skarlet is okay and should be allowed since she's not proven to be broken yet.
2. I believe Skarlet should be banned because we cannot prove yet she's not broken.
Seeing both, I choose to not to pick either, although I'd go for not banning her until proven to be broken. ("I'm innocent as long as I'm proven to be guilty". Might be a logical fallacie, but works with laws.)

Wether she gets banned or not, I cannot wait for EVO!

Think you messed up that quote a bit there.

Also, Mugen, go and practice your Sheeva more.

 

[Tim Static]

You have an entire month to prepare for the character. If you enter a tournament, you are acknowledging you are prepared and DLC is part of being prepared. This isn't released the day before, it's a month before, you can fit in LOTS of online/offline sessions to learn her

well thats the point of all this. to determine what is fair. This is the Super Bowl of fighting game tourneys, so they want to make the best decision for all the communities.

I think it would be best to enter Evo 2011 without Skarlet this year. That way its completely fair for everyone, and it can never be used as an excuse afterwards.

 

[16 Bit]

im neutral here as i see both sides. but i will point out that ppl saying "allow skarlet!" are the same king of ppl saying "buff raiden, he needs more, i just dont see why hes top". my point is, ppl dont know what they are asking for.

yes that's kind of the point. We don't know and the default position is legal. We should not presume that a new character will be so broken they require a ban.

We're treating this game with kid's gloves.

 

[Gangsta Crizzab]

Skarlet should be banned at Evo.

She is too new,and as some ppl here pointed: We DONT KNOW what would be discovered from here to there, specially when the game is so new. i was thinking the same, but the changes between SSF4 and AE arent as big as a new game. i dont know if I explained well. My english is bad.

Heavily disagree with that. Yun, Yang and Fei Long are S tier characters with no heavy disadvantages (the opposite of Super's 10+ top tier characters), every top tier character from Super overwhelmingly got nerfed pretty hard (Guile's still hurting from the beatdown he got), and the game has switched from heavily defensive play to rushdown-oriented characters across the board. And again, most players JUST got this game less than two weeks ago and had to learn matchups for four brand new characters as well as significant balance changes across the board. I'll bet the majority of players at Evo for SSF4AE are in that same boat. There's LOADS of stuff, overpowered or not, being found in MK9 every week and I guarantee some will be found with other "known" characters before Evo, and what's the excuse then?

If there's no evidence of anything overtly game-breaking with Skarlet she should not get banned, plain and simple. You don't ban anything in a fighting game unless it's WAY too good and nothing has been found yet that merits it. Not only that, but think about the typical tournament mentality of "save that shit for the nationals" - I will bet dollars to cents we will see shit we have never seen before in all three of the main event games that will be broken/overpowering/top-tier. Banning because something MIGHT be too good is unacceptable - learn the matchup first, verify THEN act on it. If anything, tournaments are what's used to test out a character's overall effectiveness at high-level and Evo is a perfect debut to see what Skarlet (and possibly Rain/Kenshi) can do. I could see it if she was released only a week or two before, but it'll be a whole month and that's plenty of time to learn the matchup well enough to deal with it. Not buying the DLC isn't an excuse especially for tournament players who will buy any DLC characters just to make sure they know the matchup.

NRS, get the Hotfix patch out and leave the game alone for at least a few months, minimum. The constant patching of dubiously "OP" characters/moves seems a little too knee-jerk at this point, especially when we haven't seen anyone beasting multiple tournaments with any one tactic/move outside of Kabal block infinites and KL's bullshit. There isn't ANYTHING in this game that even touches the Twins/Fei domination of SSF4AE (who are all still very much beatable) - let us figure shit out.

 

[Tim Static]

Still cant use the AE excuse. The game is new to console, but the game isnt new. Its been out for a long time, and there is no excuse for it imo.

 

[Gangsta Crizzab]

Still cant use the AE excuse. The game is new to console, but the game isnt new. Its been out for a long time, and there is no excuse for it imo.

Ok then. What about the fact that most of the characters in MK9 all have game-changing buffs/nerfs being released virtually every couple of weeks? How many times will we relearn a character before we have a "complete" version? Like someone else said, we may as well ban Kano/Cyrax/Sheeva/Jax/Quan Chi/*insert any character given major balance changes one month before Evo*. There will ALWAYS be a chance someone will find bullshit at or right before Evo, let alone all the examples of the PowerUp/PDP tournaments where everyone had to deal with massive changes right before a major and/or were all on equal footing. Everyone at Evo will be on more or less "equal" footing with Skarlet. A pro player will step up their game to make sure they know how to play with/deal with her and get in the lab. And isn't there another Hotfix Patch coming in a week or two, even closer to Evo? When are we supposed to know when a character's "done"?

Like it or not the AE comparison is valid. A large majority of the people there do NOT have the matchup experience of guys like Valle/Wong/Daigo/Tokido/Sako/Marn/etc. who have had this game in their hands for the better part of the last 7-8 months. Sure it's a moot point because we know all of those guys WILL be in the Top 32 at least partially due to that extra experience, but is it really fair? Not entirely... but you DEAL WITH IT. That's why the hotfix/balance patch thing with today's fighting games is a verrrrry slippery slope. I'm all for patching out the bullshit in fighting games... to an extent. I think most will agree that some of the nerfs in MK9, like Smoke's OTG removal, were hardly necessary and more like "oh shit, this looks like it might be too good so let's get rid of it", but let's see... anyone winning majors with Smoke? No? Most MVC3 players agreed that Sentinel's health nerf was implemented way too early in the game's life before anyone got a chance to actually LEARN THE MATCH (and by the time the patch came out there was at least ten characters that made him look free). Sirlin's 100% correct in that if it's not there, don't jump the gun. Everyone should read this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/cheating.html Have we found anything like that in MK9 at ALL, let alone with Skarlet?

And again, people are finding new stuff in all these games. In MVC3 they just discovered that there's at least 3-4 characters than can insta-kill Dark Phoenix - that's a BIG deal and considering the dynamic in that game, can change the tiers overnight. Should we ban Spidey/She-Hulk/Skrull now, too? Until lately people were talking about how ass T.Hawk is in AE, but then discovered that he can pretty much body all of the top tier characters. Too much kiddie gloves and not enough hard work in MK9's balancing IMO...

Leave her in and let's see what happens. We have at least two weeks to find bullshit and considering the nature of the argument, the top players will step up and do some hard lab work on her. And again, what about the new Hotfix coming in that's going to fundamentally change even MORE characters?

 

[RWDY Nori]

well thats the point of all this. to determine what is fair. This is the Super Bowl of fighting game tourneys, so they want to make the best decision for all the communities.

I think it would be best to enter Evo 2011 without Skarlet this year. That way its completely fair for everyone, and it can never be used as an excuse afterwards.

I think no skarlet takes away some hype. Unless there is something broken about her yet to be posted, it's exactly as you said, this is the super bowl of fighting game tournaments so the best player should be allowed to use whichever char they choose.

And let's be real: Evo is great, I've been there for 05 and 06. Evo to me isn't just another tournament, it's flat out war. Some of the brackets are insane to get out of, you are there for hours and hours and hours and VERY mentally exhausting. That being hard enough, you probably shelled out at least 1k just to get there. Driving/plane ticket, hotel, eating, venue fee, tournament fee (I'm not gonna include gambling cause not everybody does). In other words, if you came to Evo, you didn't come to some hole in the wall gamestop tournament, you came prepared for war. I certainly am under the assumption if you are entering Evo, you are a VERY serious tournament and CERTAINLY have been practicing day in and day out to prepare against every char. IMO, responsibility goes to the gamer not NRS or anybody else

I will put down any amount of money that more people will complain about Raiden/KL/Reptile(pick a char people want to complain about this week) over Skarlet.

 

[Adnan]

She should be banned imo, if there are any changes she needs via patch, NRS can't implement them before EVO, because then a lot of the stuff players have learned about her might be invalid, and there'll be even less time to prepare against her.

This is NRS's first EVO, so it could make or break the face of the game amongst the general competitive community. I think it'd be better for NRS to just play it safe this time round.