Sindel General Discussion Thread

[Crimea]

I was okay with bad bitch Sindel, but I didn't expect it will be so one sided. And I thought she would still care about her daughter. Also her ending looks like copy paste from Skarlet.

 

[BowTheDeceitful]

I was okay with bad bitch Sindel, but I didn't expect it will be so one sided. And I thought she would still care about her daughter. Also her ending looks like copy paste from Skarlet.

Sindel’s relationship with Kitana is complicated. Sindel DOES care for Kitana, however Sindel is disappointed in Kitana. Sindel wanted Kitana to rule over Edenia as she did, but Kitana tried to liberate the people of Edenia which makes Sindel feel Kitana is too soft and weak. Sindel doesn’t want to be associated with weakness. In her intro with Kitana, Sindel tells her to come back to her mother, and not to ignore her heritage. So it sounds like if Kitana would accept her Mother’s vision of rule they would be together again.

 

[HeavyNorse]

She became a one-note character instead of a multi-faceted one with depth.
To some, that's preferable, apparently.

 

[S+ Main]

this character is fucking wild

 

[Benlo]

L'et's hope a MK 12 story around Edenia, with Sindel and Jerrod as Queen and King, Kitana and Jade at their side.

Shao Kahn starting his invasion, Mileena with him, but wanting to met Kitana and Sindel, so not a 100% evil Mileena.

Tanya being a spy for all of them at the same time, Rain wanting his heritage as Argus son but fighting for Edenia with Jade and Kitana.

Edenian politics and affairs.

Need it, want it.

 

[ScreamQueen]

<--- I've been a Sindel fan since yadda yadda (see avatar)... and I'm not really pleased with the new backstory, but I'm so incredibly happy with the voice and visual design and care and attention in those elements of her, that I'll take the rough with the smooth.

Regarding lore, after all these decades, I do my best to think of MK characters like you would comic book characters, as "interpretations". I struggle to see MK 2 Mileena, MK9 Mileena and MKX Mileena (in one game she went from utter child psychopath to conniving ruler of Outworld) as the same character. Ditto for, say, Johnny Cage... A more extreme example is The Joker. Heath Ledger's Joker isn't Cesar Romero's Joker isn't Joaquin Phoenix's Joker, ya dig?

As Mortal Kombat rolls through different eras, teams, and writers. And as character switch up looks, moves, voice actors, and now even timelines, (Baraka was fucking DEAD) and alliances, and apparently backstories. I'm more inclined to try and focus on the idea of "MK 11 Sindel is the current Sindel, Musetta Vander movie Sindel was another Sindel, the Sindel I knew from MK 3 was another writer's idea of Sindel, hell, even MK Legacy Sindel was a different "Sindle"... And maybe in 10-15 years there'll be ANOTHER, benevolent Sindel"

Long story short. I've been waiting for her return for ages, especially after being told repeatedly "No one gives a shit about that character, get over it". And they've done such an amazing great job with her voice actor, look, fighting style, more effort than she's ever had, arguably. I don't like the retcon. I am disappointed by it, and I really don't want her to be evil. But I can let it slide as her current "interpretation."

Take a shot for every time I said Sindel.

 

[Lokheit]

The retcon is such a mess that not even the writters know how to handle it:

Why would this Sindel mourn Mileena when in this timeline Mileena wasn't around until MK2 time (another huge and bad retcon)? She barely knew her after her resurrection as she died again shortly after.

Also, why are people using the "story doesn't matter in fighting games" as an argument to defend the new personality? If your argument is that you don't care, then don't care for any side. If you're in one side and that's your argument, then you have no arguments at all.

And story is important in a game (game developer here btw). Games are to movies what movies were to books. We went from telling a story, to showing it, to experiencing it. That whole evolution is an awesome thing and shouldn't be dismissed like that. Also the NRS team puts A LOT of emphasis on being the fighting game with the blockbuster movie long story and even during the Midway days they always had the richer lore out of any fighting game. That was a huge selling point for me to become a big fan of the franchise.

People get attached to some characters stories because they see something they like or feel identified with and a lot of times that weights on the decission of maining a character.

A retcon is bad because it makes both the new and old stories irrelevant. You're shitting on the fans of what the character always was and you're basically saying "we don't care" with the new stuff so no one can get too attached to the new protrait.

Imagine if tomorrow DC said that the main timeline Superman was a regular human that was hit in the head by a small fragment of a kryptonite meteor that passed a kryptonian memories and powers to him and that it was always canon, Superman was always human, never an alien. Do you think Superman fans would act like "who cares"? I know of sometimes where similar stuff has happened in comics and fans outraged until it was fixed.

Hopefully this will be scrapped for the next game, like when they decided it would be cool to make Sub-Zero a refrigerator, the character with the deepest story in the previous timeline, all of his fans got mad, they fixed it and current Sub-Zero is now basically on the same path as old Sub-Zero like it never happened (still needs that Cryo armor and some Sareena love though) and they recycled the fridge idea for a character that really needed a revamp (Frost) without making it conflict with her previous story or personality.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Bad sindel good
Good sindel bad

 

[Makuholick]

<--- I've been a Sindel fan since yadda yadda (see avatar)... and I'm not really pleased with the new backstory, but I'm so incredibly happy with the voice and visual design and care and attention in those elements of her, that I'll take the rough with the smooth.

Good for you.
Can you people just let this go? Like, she's ruined, they're not changing it, swallow it

 

[Zviko]

People saying Sindel tower is up right now for 2 hours. Nothing on PC though.

 

[Espio]

I never thought the day would come where Baraka and Kano seem more virtuous than Sindel. That's my biggest confusion. I think admitting that people just wanted her to act how she looks is weird. There's enough stereotypical characters in lore already. People pretending like she had no agency in the old timeline are very disingenuous. She debuted in MK3 and had agency going forward. Sindel and Jade went after Onaga to free Kitana, one of the strongest villains in lore. There was no man controlling her or telling her what to do. She was always a boss bitch even when she was good. It's fine if people like new Sindel but this new racist Sindel who is into dominating people and being sexual isn't cooler than old Sindel. It's obviously just opinion, but pretending like a gothic dominatrix with racist tendencies is an achievement or improvement is weird.

 

[S+ Main]

I never thought the day would come where Baraka and Kano seem more virtuous than Sindel. That's my biggest confusion. I think admitting that people just wanted her to act how she looks is weird. There's enough stereotypical characters in lore already. People pretending like she had no agency in the old timeline are very disingenuous. She debuted in MK3 and had agency going forward. Sindel and Jade went after Onaga to free Kitana, one of the strongest villains in lore. There was no man controlling her or telling her what to do. She was always a boss bitch even when she was good. It's fine if people like new Sindel but this new racist Sindel who is into dominating people and being sexual isn't cooler than old Sindel. It's obviously just opinion, but pretending like a gothic dominatrix with racist tendencies is an achievement or improvement is weird.

What about her is racist? i havent read or listen to anything lore related since im not a story guy.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Man, this thread is a shit show.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Good for you.
Can you people just let this go? She's ruined, deal with it.

Uh shes improved actually ya dingus!!!

 

[Kiss the Missile]

What about her is racist? i havent read or listen to anything lore related since im not a story guy.

An intro with Kollector. She calls him a Naknadian Dog, and he calls her racist.

 

[S+ Main]

An intro with Kollector. She calls him a Naknadian Dog, and he calls her racist.

i guess she really is the bad guy

 

[StormGoddess]

while i like the new evil Sindel, i can understand longtime fans of the character being disappointed with her story change. I didnt enjoy Tanya's role as traitor to her realm basically going to D'Vorah but was just happy for her return.
I am confused about this...i always heard that mk9, mkx, and mk11 were a (separate retelling and complete ) story arc.
So wouldnt this Sindel only recon the story from 9 and beyond...just like i assume that this timeline's Tanya was a freedom fighter and not the traitor.
I am not a "lore" person but heard that storylines were group by games and era and MK9 was a reset of sort???

anyway i am over the moon excited by her redesign style and look.

 

[Lokheit]

while i like the new evil Sindel, i can understand longtime fans of the character being disappointed with her story change. I didnt enjoy Tanya's role as traitor to her realm basically going to D'Vorah but was just happy for her return.
I am confused about this...i always heard that mk9, mkx, and mk11 were a (separate retelling and complete ) story arc.
So wouldnt this Sindel only recon the story from 9 and beyond...just like i assume that this timeline's Tanya was a freedom fighter and not the traitor.
I am not a "lore" person but heard that storylines were group by games and era and MK9 was a reset of sort???

anyway i am over the moon excited by her redesign style and look.

MK9 is supposed to diverge from the point of the first tournament. Things concerning prior lore (Sindel backstory, Mileena not being around for thousands of years, the events of MK Mythologies...) Is supposed to be unnafected by the time jump, yet they retconned stuff.

Basically Raiden sends the message to his MK1 self to try to change the outcome of Armageddon.

On NRS defense, they're not the first writters to make a mess out of a time travel story, most writters end up making a pile of crap. It just hurts to see their fans are more invested on their lore than their writters. At some points I have to think that the current writters only saw the movies and never even read the lore.

 

[Makuholick]

Uh shes improved actually ya dingus!!!

Nice impersonation

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

I'm gonna be pretty honest here and say that as much as I love the old MK lore I just gave up on it after the last two games.
I mean, what do we have really? Mortal Kombat Special Forces 2 followed by whatever the fuck this was with the worst, most inneficient villain in the franchise in Kronika. Bringing back fan favorites to give them less than zero story development, lazy time travelling shenanigans that make no sense. This franchise used to have an elaborate, albeit goofy and nonsense lore, that had a lot of soul because of how diverse the characters were and how many side plots less important characters had. Now it's still goofy and nonsense, but it lost all its soul and charm imo. The Sindel retcon sucks major dick but it's just a symptom of a bigger problem.
And people who don't care about the story, yeah, we get it, you don't care. But some people are, indeed, lore people, and they're fans just as much as you are so if all you have to add is "lul who cares about fighting game lore" then you're really not adding anything at all.
This is imo both the best MK ever gameplay/content wise and the worst ever story wise so I'm both happy and sad with this game

 

[xenogorgeous]

this new retcon on Sindel story lore is good .... she was kind of shallow before; now, she seems better, with a bit more personality to be explored and some deep.

Before, she was more or less an eternal victim of situations all the time, now, she is an apex predator, with greed and hungry for power, and with urge that can destroy huge contenders as Shao Kahn himself, Shang Tsung and whoever stands in her way, so, she looks a more fearsome and formidable foe to the MK kombatants, hehe

 

[hatyr]

Her arcade ladder ending combined with the tone of her intro interactions really give me a Cersei Lannister vibe.

 

[Lokheit]

this new retcon on Sindel story lore is good .... she was kind of shallow before; now, she seems better, with a bit more personality to be explored and some deep.

Before, she was more or less an eternal victim of situations all the time, now, she is an apex predator, with greed and hungry for power, and with urge that can destroy huge contenders as Shao Kahn himself, Shang Tsung and whoever stands in her way, so, she looks a more fearsome and formidable foe to the MK kombatants, hehe

MKD Sindel hunting for modafaking Onaga's head to save her daughter didn't feel empowered enough now? Having to gain her favor to get knighted didn't feel like she was a powerful ruler?

Her story wasn't limited to "poor brainwashed thing". She had purpose AND power.

That woman was way stronger than a racist evil sex slaver that wants power for the sake of it.

Current personality looks like this reunion took place:

"Hey, they're mad at us because we removed sexuality from the game"

"Yeah, I'm freaking out, we should appease the fappers."

"You know what? Let's take a character from the sexy pool and completely rework it into a nymphomaniac with no story so they're happy."

"Perfect plan, no holes, nobody will figure it out."

 

[tim amesquita]

i do wonder if next mk game how will sindel be portrayed will she still bad like she meant to be because kitana and liu said they wont interfere let people make there own choices or will kitana and liu intrefree make her good?

 

[GenyaArikado]

When people can only see stereotypes...

You mean archetypes, that fighting games are built around. These are games about russian wrestlers who train by wrestling bears, or Hollywood actors who wander into a martial arts tournament, or ninjas who come back from death as spirits of vengeance. And the character's visual design is a huge part of that persona, it and their animations need to convey who they are.

When all of Sindel's design said 'evil 80s banshee', the later footnote that 'actually she's a kind mother and wants peace to the world' is meaningless, because nothing in the games sells it. It just makes the character weaker, because then you never see anything of their true self in actual gameplay, and whatever you see is not real, just a mindless slave-wife. How would that ever be better than her having her own agency, which follows her actual character design?

You might dislike it, but games with limited storytelling such as fighting games and MOBAs, generally have to rely on visual storytelling for their characters, so appareance, movements or skills, ability names, etc. are all parts used to showcase a character's identity. In all of those categories Sindel screams EVIL. This presents an issue that can be dealt with in three ways:

A) Ignoring it, like MKD did. On the negative this creates a disconnect between the character experience (evil banshee queen) and the character story (good queen) which in turn limits what the developer themselves since they somehow have to sell two opposite character experiences.

B) Redesigning the character. I think it's worth mentioning that both MK3 and the MKA movie have a different look for "good" Sindel, dressed in white (in MK3 it belongs to her past self). That's because again, selling a fantasy in games such as MK needs visual help. The character Senna from League of Legends is kinda what they should have done for Sindel in MKD: she died and came back as a ghost-sort of being, yet she is good. However, her character and gameplay design do sell that while she's permanently marked by the bad stuff, she is ultimately good.

C) Changing the story to fit the character design. Obviosly NRS went with this route. This allows the developers to go all-in with the fantasy but it has the negative side of pissing off the fans of the previous story. Sadly for them, ultimately Sindel most iconic qualities are her dark looks, banshee and hair magic and mature appareance, the former two rooted in her MK3 persona which was evil and not her normal self (as MK3 ending show). So rather than ignoring it like they did for MKD, NRS decided to retcon her into an evil to allow her most iconic elements to prevail through time and give them full exploration

She became a one-note character instead of a multi-faceted one with depth.
To some, that's preferable, apparently.

Looking badwhile beinggooddoesn'tequal multi-faceted

MKD Sindel hunting for modafaking Onaga's head to save her daughter didn't feel empowered enough now? Having to gain her favor to get knighted didn't feel like she was a powerful ruler?

Her story wasn't limited to "poor brainwashed thing". She had purpose AND power.

That woman was way stronger than a racist evil sex slaver that wants power for the sake of it.

Current personality looks like this reunion took place:

"Hey, they're mad at us because we removed sexuality from the game"

"Yeah, I'm freaking out, we should appease the fappers."

"You know what? Let's take a character from the sexy pool and completely rework it into a nymphomaniac with no story so they're happy."

"Perfect plan, no holes, nobody will figure it out."

The thing is that, other than not beating Kitana's ass to free herself, i can totally see current Sindel doing MKD storyline to save her daughter. Abusive mother doesn't even begin to describe her but she cares in some way for Kitana.

A point that also feels worth mentioning is that, given their characters and positions in the previous story, Sindel and Kitana stories could basically be interchangeable in most cases because both were the "benevolent ruler previously brainwashed by SK to do evil stuff who wants to restore Edenia". Interchange Sindel with Kitana in the former's plot in MKD or MKA and it fits just as well. This narcissistic but not absolutely uncaring approach does allow her story to go into other directions, similarily to what NRS did in MK9 with Mileena being emancipated from the Kitana inferiority complex storyline

I think your second point was quite inmature.