Should you gain meter when blocking attacks?

[Onilordasmodeus]

...because then, the breaking player is getting out of the damage for sacrificing the same amount of bar the offensive player spent to get it - but he didn't get it.

Why reward someone for getting caught in a combo and getting out for free?

Are you talking about Block Breakers, or Combo Breakers? I'm talking about Block Breakers.

If someone uses bar in a block string to gain advantage and potential chip, they didn't get in, thus there should be no obligation to compensate any player for their use of bar for pressure. I could see your point if combo breakers were only one bar and a player used resources to get damage after they opened up their opponent, but I'm not suggest that that should be the case.

 

[Zoidberg747]

That's why you adjust the frames...

smh.

Well you weren't very clear on that point. And why would you get rid of safe wakeups only to make them safe again just in a different way?


Armor breaking wakeups is fine, its a legitimate strategy in most FGs. Its better to have to think to wakeup than to just get out of jail free card.


They need to buff the defense where the defensive player gets rewarded if he plays smart, not let him do stuff like wakeup for free.

 

[buyacushun]

I lot of people are seeing these changes as generic, simple, standardized changes without taking into consideration how it affects everything else. I tried having a MKx gameplay idea discussion and people did the same thing there. I don't know why this happens but please if you think of a negative side or counter for said change. Think of other changes that could be made in tandem with ones posted.

 

[TopTierHarley]

I think the problem with that in injustice (and still do in MKx), is that even though traditionally if I scored a knockdown I would be at advantage. But in MKx if I get hit by a wakeup I'm taking around the same bnb damage as if we were on the same footing. I wouldn't care if there was an invincible wakeup but it only allowed ~1/3 of normal bnb damage. That's not exact but make it where most of the reward for waking up is that I'm off you. Not that plus damage plus whatever oki I'm in.

No game is like that, if you eat a wake up, you are eating the full damage for getting hit

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Well you weren't very clear on that point. And why would you get rid of safe wakeups only to make them safe again just in a different way?


Armor breaking wakeups is fine, its a legitimate strategy in most FGs. Its better to have to think to wakeup than to just get out of jail free card.


They need to buff the defense where the defensive player gets rewarded if he plays smart, not let him do stuff like wakeup for free.

It's not free... that's the entire point.

Both players have to think if there will be a wakeup or not. Now they just run up and don't give a fuck cause meaty attacks win 90% of the time.

And they wouldn't be safe if the move isn't safe on block. You block, you punish. Now they have to decide if they should wakeup again b/c last time they got bodied for it.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

No game is like that, if you eat a wake up, you are eating the full damage for getting hit

I think what he means is... wakeups should be like Sub's slide. You don't get massive damage from it, you just get people off of you.

 

[TopTierHarley]

I think what he means is... wakeups should be like Sub's slide. You don't get massive damage from it, you just get people off of you.

That seems like generic character design imo, that means people will have hideous specials as well

 

[buyacushun]

No game is like that, if you eat a wake up, you are eating the full damage for getting hit

I think what he means is... wakeups should be like Sub's slide. You don't get massive damage from it, you just get people off of you.

That's a much easier way of what I meant.

That seems like generic character design imo, that means people will have hideous specials as well

Not all you can make a bunch of different specials. Or give the specials certain wakeup properties (like how teleports only have armour on wakeup). Or if they were just going to make wakeups however, then just add scaling to wakeups then. Many ways one could go about it

 

[TopTierHarley]

That's a much easier way of what I meant.


Not all you can make a bunch of different specials. Or give the specials certain wakeup properties (like how teleports only have armour on wakeup). Or if they were just going to make wakeups however, then just add scaling to wakeups then. Many ways one could go about it

Not a fan of scaling damage because I made the right read and decided to wake up

 

[GamerBlake90]

You want to torture yourself with invincible meterless wake-ups for the third game in a row?!

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTAHP!

If anything, it would just make the offensive gameplay even more chaotic than it already is.

I was under the impression we were talking about a reward for blocking, not attacking in any situation including the knockdown game.

 

[buyacushun]

Not a fan of scaling damage because I made the right read and decided to wake up

It's not punishment. It's keeping with the theme I like of "you messed up, hence why you're in this situation. So if you want damage AND to get your opponent off of you instead of blocking you don't get that high of a reward." The risk/reward is not in your favor because you got beat in the first part of the game.

 

[TamedLizard]

Nah, just take the hit bruh.

In all seriousness though, successfully blocking Quan Chi, Lao, Erron, or Sonya should result in + meter.

 

[Eldriken]

You want to torture yourself with invincible meterless wake-ups for the third game in a row?!

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTAHP!

If anything, it would just make the offensive gameplay even more chaotic than it already is.

I was under the impression we were talking about a reward for blocking, not attacking in any situation including the knockdown game.

Typical TYM fashion. I'm just waiting for it to devolve into a thread full of arguing.

 

[Somea2V]

Typical TYM fashion. I'm just waiting for it to devolve into a thread full of arguing.

Let me go ahead and apologize for my online and JiP derailing. You're the kind of chap who deserves apologies for when we FUBAR your threads.

 

[buyacushun]

Typical TYM fashion. I'm just waiting for it to devolve into a thread full of arguing.

Spoiler

 

[Eldriken]

Let me go ahead and apologize for my online and JiP derailing. You're the kind of chap who deserves apologies for when we FUBAR your threads.

Nah, it's cool. It didn't derail it to the point that it was what the entire thread started to discuss. It's just headed in that direction due to some of the recent comments. I'd rather it not head in that direction, otherwise I'll have to ask a mod to close it.

 

[Treadmill]

Online shouldn't be considered when it come to game balance. I'm sorry, but it just shouldn't.

It should be taken into consideration seeing as how that's 99.9% of people play it. I understand thought has to go into the tournament scene as well but disregarding the overwhelming majority to appease the smallest sampling of players is a foolish business decision.

 

[Somea2V]

It should be taken into consideration seeing as how that's 99.9% of people play it. I understand thought has to go into the tournament scene as well but disregarding the overwhelming majority to appease the smallest sampling of players is a foolish business decision.

Wait. Since I already posted an explanation as to what I meant regarding balance and net code, what do you mean?

 

[JJvercetti]

It should be taken into consideration seeing as how that's 99.9% of people play it. I understand thought has to go into the tournament scene as well but disregarding the overwhelming majority to appease the smallest sampling of players is a foolish business decision.

Had to lol

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Getting in on your opponent has 2 rewards, the intended one of combo'ing his ass to the moon, or the other one of possibly allowing you a blockstring, getting minimal chip and building some meter. Now, I'm gonna give TYM the benefit of the doubt and say I think we are at a level where we realise that just because it's a blockstring, does not make it guaranteed - you still have to get past your opponents offense, checks, and not get opened up yourself. So many blockstrings are only really guaranteed off REALLY negative frames (over 10) and a simple D1 can stop a lot of them and completely swing momentum back your own way. Looking at how all the pressure in this game has been balanced lately, there actually isn't anything that crazy in the game, and everything has gaps or other options. Why do we WANT to make the game about breakers? The option should be there if you have the meter tucked for it. Not just consistently when you get in trouble and your opponent is trying to blockstring you (which, quite often relies on the meter he builds while doing it, leaving you in advantage afterwards and completely un-evening up his pressure strings). Most blockstrings in this game is very balanced, and you are never without options, and in the rare case that it is too silly, I think we should focus on turning such downs on an individual scale rather than blanket nerfing the entire mechanic. It requires looking at the characters a little deeper, some characters RELY on such stuff, and this change would seriously hurt a lot of characters

 

[RyuuJin882]

I've been thinking about this the last few days and figured if it were the case, perhaps it would help in the defense department of MKX, which is sorely lacking.

Considering you're taking damage, despite it being chip, I feel you ought to be gaining meter since it is still incoming damage. SF4 has this mechanic and it doesn't seem to break the game at all, but in SF4, you only take chip damage from special attacks.

I don't really foresee this being something that would hurt the game at all, but instead, help it. Defensive options in MKX have been talked about since around release and it's generally always about how the aggressor always has the advantage over the defender due to the nature of the game.

If you gained meter while blocking attacks, Block Breakers might be a little more common since you wouldn't always be so meter starved and if you wound up being on the defense again, you would at least start building meter to perhaps turn the tide.

This is just a thought to spark some discussion. So, what are your thoughts?

NOTE: Meter gained from blocking attacks would NOT be on par with meter gained from having your attacks blocked. This is the only possible way to make it fair while keeping the game being all about Breakers.

No. The reward for blocking correctly is that you you get a chance to punish or put yourself in a neutral or advantageous situation. If there was more meter gain than breaking would be more prevelant, when it really shouldn't be. Because then that encourages less discipline for meter management.

Instead of adding an extra reward for blocking, I think that the punishment for breaking (losing full stamina) should be done away with. You should lose only half stamina after a break. Simple solution.

Increasing meter for simply blocking would change the outcome to many matches. Unnecessary. Just don't make. Breakers useless, don't take all my stamina. The the definitive defensive fix.

 

[Eldriken]

No. The reward for blocking correctly is that you you get a chance to punish or put yourself in a neutral or advantageous situation. If there was more meter gain than breaking would be more prevelant, when it really shouldn't be. Because then that encourages less discipline for meter management.

Instead of adding an extra reward for blocking, I think that the punishment for breaking (losing full stamina) should be done away with. You should lose only half stamina after a break. Simple solution.

Increasing meter for simply blocking would change the outcome to many matches. Unnecessary. Just don't make. Breakers useless, don't take all my stamina. The the definitive defensive fix.

This argument is becoming stale because people are completely disregarding something in the very first post: The meter gained would be negligible compared to the meter you gain from your attacks being blocked. If you took 10% chip, you would gain like 1-2% meter. I somehow doubt that would make the game all about breakers.

You would lose from chip before building half a bar.

I'm saying it should be a small amount so you could MAYBE get pushed into your second bar and use a Block Breaker and give yourself a chance to win. The chip damage in this game from certain characters is absolutely absurd and they gain everything from it while still being neutral or even at advantage afterwards to where they can start their block string pressure all over again.

 

[zerosebaz]

I dont like the idea of gaining metter while blocking attacks, I do like the idea of gaining it only from blocking lows/overheads and from teching trhows.

I still believe this game gives too much meter, I think some of the top tier would be better nerfed by reducing how fast they can build it. Rather than nerfing the tools they have just reduce their ability to use them.

Ps: Im also up for invincible wakeups, but I dont think everyone should have them, and maybe it could only be the enhanced ones. Its just a thought, it should be analyzed case by case, but dont worry, nobody plans on giving Cassie's flipkick invincivility.

 

[buyacushun]

This argument is becoming stale because people are completely disregarding something in the very first post: The meter gained would be negligible compared to the meter you gain from your attacks being blocked. If you took 10% chip, you would gain like 1-2% meter. I somehow doubt that would make the game all about breakers.

You would lose from chip before building half a bar.

I'm saying it should be a small amount so you could MAYBE get pushed into your second bar and use a Block Breaker and give yourself a chance to win. The chip damage in this game from certain characters is absolutely absurd and they gain everything from it while still being neutral or even at advantage afterwards to where they can start their block string pressure all over again.

For some reason people are very one dimensional when it comes to changes.

I dont like the idea of gaining metter while blocking attacks, I do like the idea of gaining it only from blocking lows/overheads and from teching trhows.

I still believe this game gives too much meter, I think some of the top tier would be better nerfed by reducing how fast they can build it. Rather than nerfing the tools they have just reduce their ability to use them.

Ps: Im also up for invincible wakeups, but I dont think everyone should have them, and maybe it could only be the enhanced ones. Its just a thought, it should be analyzed case by case, but dont worry, nobody plans on giving Cassie's flipkick invincivility.

I think Cassie could get a flipkick could get invincibility if NRS changed how wakeups overall work. Stuff like that shouldn't be blanket changes and should be handled carefully. Which IMO NRS has yet to do.

 

[RyuuJin882]

This argument is becoming stale because people are completely disregarding something in the very first post: The meter gained would be negligible compared to the meter you gain from your attacks being blocked. If you took 10% chip, you would gain like 1-2% meter. I somehow doubt that would make the game all about breakers.

You would lose from chip before building half a bar.

I'm saying it should be a small amount so you could MAYBE get pushed into your second bar and use a Block Breaker and give yourself a chance to win. The chip damage in this game from certain characters is absolutely absurd and they gain everything from it while still being neutral or even at advantage afterwards to where they can start their block string pressure all over again.

Win a match after block breaking? The odds are rare since you have no stamina. Especially if you break in the corner.

I disregarded the point of the gaining less meter. I don't like the idea at all. This is why: if I successfully get in on you to apply pressure, then I've already made the better decisions in the neutral game. Why should you get a reward for that? You're reward for stopping my full punish is blocking and not taking the big damage. After my pressure it's your turn to build advantage.

Defensive should be buffed not by gaining meter on block but by taking away less stamina for a breaker. Make Breakers viable.

Neutral game should not be punished by giving the person blocking meter.