Should you gain meter when blocking attacks?

[Eldriken]

I've been thinking about this the last few days and figured if it were the case, perhaps it would help in the defense department of MKX, which is sorely lacking.

Considering you're taking damage, despite it being chip, I feel you ought to be gaining meter since it is still incoming damage. SF4 has this mechanic and it doesn't seem to break the game at all, but in SF4, you only take chip damage from special attacks.

I don't really foresee this being something that would hurt the game at all, but instead, help it. Defensive options in MKX have been talked about since around release and it's generally always about how the aggressor always has the advantage over the defender due to the nature of the game.

If you gained meter while blocking attacks, Block Breakers might be a little more common since you wouldn't always be so meter starved and if you wound up being on the defense again, you would at least start building meter to perhaps turn the tide.

This is just a thought to spark some discussion. So, what are your thoughts?

NOTE: Meter gained from blocking attacks would NOT be on par with meter gained from having your attacks blocked. This is the only possible way to make it fair while keeping the game being all about Breakers.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Unbreakable definitely should when Aura is up

 

[Deadly Torcher]

I don't no about gaining meter when blocking but you should def gain the advantage when you block a JiP. It would stop alot of the online shenanigans & alot of ppl would actually have to use their brains to get in.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Good question!

But what if you only gain some meter from certain blocked attacks? Like special moves or anything that sort of cancel-pressure that Jails? Could be interesting.

 

[Somea2V]

Online shouldn't be considered when it come to game balance. I'm sorry, but it just shouldn't.

And Eldriken, would this shift meter gain to the defender entirely or be a mutual thing, as in both characters would gain meter on attack and block? The reason I ask is that switching meter gain to the blocker only would neuter some characters that rely on their pressure game for meter. Cage, for example, doesn't gain meter terribly well. So if he lost the gain he gets for pressuring his opponent...

 

[podizzler3000]

personally i like it the way it is. makes for more exciting games IMO

 

[Hellbringer]

Play bloodgod if u want that to happen. Dont forget to summon a totem.

 

[Eldriken]

Online shouldn't be considered when it come to game balance. I'm sorry, but it just shouldn't.

And Eldriken, would this shift meter gain to the defender entirely or be a mutual thing, as in both characters would gain meter on attack and block? The reason I ask is that switching meter gain to the blocker only would neuter some characters that rely on their pressure game for meter. Cage, for example, doesn't gain meter terribly well. So if he lost the gain he gets for pressuring his opponent...

It would function the same as it does now, but with the addition of the defender gaining meter while blocking. It obviously wouldn't be on par with the meter gained from your attacks being blocked, however.

Good question!

But what if you only gain some meter from certain blocked attacks? Like special moves or anything that sort of cancel-pressure that Jails? Could be interesting.

It would be interesting, but then it might wind up being too complicated or wouldn't even matter in the end. I think any blocked attack should net the defender some sort of meter since they are STILL LOSING LIFE. It only makes sense since you gain meter from being hit (taking damage). Damage received is damage received.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I don't no about gaining meter when blocking but you should def gain the advantage when you block a JiP. It would stop alot of the online shenanigans & alot of ppl would actually have to use their brains to get in.

Online shouldn't be considered when it come to game balance. I'm sorry, but it just shouldn't.

I agree it shouldn't, but I don't think in this game JIP's should jail the opponent because it literally is rewarding an unsucessful attack with, in a lot of cases a 50/50. Why!? At least make the attacker -5 or something for being blocked.

 

[Eldriken]

Let's not turn this into an online discussion or about JIP. >_> While this IS a thread about MKX's defense department, we're not touching on that particular part of the subject. =P

 

[xInfra Deadx]

No, because you'd be rewarding the player that does nothing but block. Kitana, Lao, Johnny Cage and Liu Kang players (or anyone who lacks any real 50-50's) would have a reason to be upset.

 

[Airvidal]

I thought the new system had been added due to too many breaks during the match instead of a smooth fighting transition. Doing this would put the game back to that. Although, I would be interested in seeing how this would play out.

 

[DrFolmer]

Man rushdown is gonna suck ass if this was the case. I know both fighters gain from this, but guys like Quan Chi gets more use of the breakers. Every instance Quan Chi gets back to neutral he can gain momentum. On the other hand, if someone gets caught by Quan they will have more breaker opportunities, oh wait, I forgot about the 40 % unbreakables...

It would be interesting for Unreakable however.

I already think NRS did a decent job to help those with extremely bad defensive capabilities. As long as it's not the same amount as the attacker's gain it's no problem though. It's just the thought of how little it takes for some characters to gain momentum - one breaker more and we might tap the balance too hard.

 

[Eldriken]

No, because you'd be rewarding the player that does nothing but block. Kitana, Lao, Johnny Cage and Liu Kang players (or anyone who lacks any real 50-50's) would have a reason to be upset.

It's not like the defender would gain the same amount of meter as the person attacking. It would be substantially less, but any gained meter is always beneficial.

I thought the new system had been added due to too many breaks during the match instead of a smooth fighting transition. Doing this would put the game back to that. Although, I would be interested in seeing how this would play out.

Well, like I said above, the meter gained while blocking wouldn't be on par with the meter gained from having your attacks blocked. You wouldn't build like 50% of a bar blocking Flame Fist's heavy chip strings or anything. But you would gain a noticeable amount.

 

[buyacushun]

Idk. I would like that to happen as well as a couple other great suggestions. But NRS did design the game with aggressor advantage in the meter gain department, but makes the comebacks happen because that switches when getting hit. This change would probably require an overhaul of the meter system but I'd like it.

Sucks when I'm MoS Raiden facing a character like LK and he is just getting all this gain from while I get chipped and we're both playing correctly. Definitely think it would help even out some uneven situations.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Yes. It's one thing that SF got right.

 

[Eldriken]

Idk. I would like that to happen as well as a couple other great suggestions. But NRS did design the game with aggressor advantage in the meter gain department, but makes the comebacks happen because that switches when getting hit. This change would probably require an overhaul of the meter system but I'd like it.

Sucks when I'm MoS Raiden facing a character like LK and he is just getting all this gain from while I get chipped and we're both playing correctly. Definitely think it would help even out some uneven situations.

That's kinda my point. People feel that it's okay for characters like Raiden (Thunder God), D'Vorah (Venomous), Liu Kang (Flame Fist) and others to gain massive amounts of meter WHILE CHIPPING YOU TO DEATH, and yet the defender gains nothing from it to help sway the tide of battle.

 

[John Grizzly]

Before you just dismiss this idea, think about how different MK9 would have been with this implemented. I remember just shaking my head during Kabal matches because the fucking character CONSTANTLY had meter to combo break and/or EX Nomad Dash. It was one of the reasons he was so ridiculous in that game.

I understand that the idea is to reward the aggressor, but block strings are a bit too strong in MK. Gaining so much meter while also chipping your opponent to death is a bit absurd.

I've always wondered what something like a universal low parry would do to MK. There's so many occasions where you can guess right and block a low/overhead mixup and you still aren't rewarded. Keep in mind, Tekken is my primary game, so I'm used to being rewarded for making a read on a/seeing an incoming low and getting a full combo punish. Even if the low parry put the opponent into the same state as the meter burn throw does, that would still be interesting.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Let's not turn this into an online discussion or about JIP. >_> While this IS a thread about MKX's defense department, we're not touching on that particular part of the subject. =P

Soooorry

It would be interesting, but then it might wind up being too complicated or wouldn't even matter in the end. I think any blocked attack should net the defender some sort of meter since they are STILL LOSING LIFE. It only makes sense since you gain meter from being hit (taking damage). Damage received is damage received.

In a lot of the cases when you a block an attack, it's your advantage - therefore your turn, so that you can apply pressure and deal chip to the opponent whilst attempting to open them up. I think the system you're proposing doesn't emphasise or make players worry about meter management and promotes wreckless usage of meter as.

 

[Dizzy]

Every time I see this argument, people ignore the fact that when you hit your opponent, they gain a significant amount of meter and you don't gain any.

That would have to be totally changed as well. This definitely isn't something you can just throw in the game and say "well it'd make it better".

I think the patches have mostly been in the right direction. (Aside from a few odd things like the recent Quan buffs). I have a ton of fun in the game and the balance seems comparable to other FGs. I don't agree a system change like this would be needed. Block pressure was obviously meant to be strong. This isn't a down-back all day game. If someone doesn't like the game competitively, they can play one of the numerous other fighting games that caters to a playstyle they prefer or are more accustomed to. One thing I love about NRS games is how different each one is. There is no "normal" NRS style. You cannot sit on legacy skill and hope to achieve victory.

All in all, I disagree.

 

[buyacushun]

That's kinda my point. People feel that it's okay for characters like Raiden (Thunder God), D'Vorah (Venomous), Liu Kang (Flame Fist) and others to gain massive amounts of meter WHILE CHIPPING YOU TO DEATH, and yet the defender gains nothing from it to help sway the tide of battle.

Exactly. I played a bunch of hellfire scorp vs MoS Raiden and scorp just cancelled everytime he touched me for meterless chip damage while he builds meter. And I have to watch for any mixups he might do to. Now I'm spending meter to armor or breaker all the time while he just sits on 3 bars consistently. For perspective: he had a viable stray of wakeup x-ray unless I played out of my mind and kept up with him.

Before you just dismiss this idea, think about how different MK9 would have been with this implemented. I remember just shaking my head during Kabal matches because the fucking character CONSTANTLY had meter to combo break and/or EX Nomad Dash. It was one of the reasons he was so ridiculous in that game.

I understand that the idea is to reward the aggressor, but block strings are a bit too strong in MK. Gaining so much meter while also chipping your opponent to death is a bit absurd.

I've always wondered what something like a universal low parry would do to MK. There's so many occasions where you can guess right and block a low/overhead mixup and you still aren't rewarded. Keep in mind, Tekken is my primary game, so I'm used to being rewarded for making a read on a/seeing an incoming low and getting a full combo punish. Even if the low parry put the opponent into the same state as the meter burn throw does, that would still be interesting.

I so wish NRS would borrow more from 3D games besides strings. They all have multiple options built into the system to help everyone and it helps to keep the characters even. NRS has 3 defensive system options: invincible backdash (on a resource and you only get 2), breaker (leaves you a sitting duck but at least you get a moment of peace), and block breaker (doesn't matter because breaker exists, unless you really don't want to die to chip).

 

[Daemantalo]

Yeah, so if I'm fighting someone and I'm playing as Cybernetic Kano or Royal Storm Kitana, some guy can just block low the entire game and build meter. That mechanic would suck for some characters imo. Johnny Cage as well.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

I've been thinking about this the last few days and figured if it were the case, perhaps it would help in the defense department of MKX, which is sorely lacking.

Considering you're taking damage, despite it being chip, I feel you ought to be gaining meter since it is still incoming damage. SF4 has this mechanic and it doesn't seem to break the game at all, but in SF4, you only take chip damage from special attacks.

I don't really foresee this being something that would hurt the game at all, but instead, help it. Defensive options in MKX have been talked about since around release and it's generally always about how the aggressor always has the advantage over the defender due to the nature of the game.

If you gained meter while blocking attacks, Block Breakers might be a little more common since you wouldn't always be so meter starved and if you wound up being on the defense again, you would at least start building meter to perhaps turn the tide.

This is just a thought to spark some discussion. So, what are your thoughts?

NOTE: Meter gained from blocking attacks would NOT be on par with meter gained from having your attacks blocked. This is the only possible way to make it fair while keeping the game being all about Breakers.

That I know of, most FGs give you meter for blocking, not just SF, and they only reward good offence with meter AFTER you open up your opponent.

IMO, if NRS is kind of doing it wrong in this aspect, as MKX already rewards offense SO MUCH more that defense in this game that is isn't even funny. Sure, nobody likes people to just lay on the block button all day (I'm one of those people), but there is something to be said about having good D and being hard to open up.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Why would we ever wanna reward people for actually being good on defense?!

THE HORROR!!!!














































I'm down for this.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

The best defense is a good offense. That's how that saying goes right?