Question - A-List Should a list be nerfed

[Wigy]

Like @EMPR_MURK said, I agree that the alist and df kang mu is 5-5 it depends on who starts their pressure first and can maintain it. The thing is that alist and df apply pressure differently. Its just a matter of conserving stamina, attempting to bait armor and knowing when to continue applying pressure.

Its a matter of who can get their pressure going first, but cage can get badly zoned out by liu kang so how can it be 5-5, liu controls the whole screen except from when cage is in his face with momentum.

 

[Dja_Homies]

If I go to egp that week. I'll play xaraka in a streamed ft5 in casuals if he'd like. No money since I'm a broke college boy but I'd like to see how that mu goes offline. If I get blown up so be it haha

 

[IrishMantis]

If I go to egp that week. I'll play xaraka in a streamed ft5 in casuals if he'd like. No money since I'm a broke college boy but I'd like to see how that mu goes offline. If I get blown up so be it haha

Damn don't teach him everything as I bet meeting that fucker in Austria

Best of luck man, but you agree with the MU right?

 

[EGP Awesomo]

Damn don't teach him everything as I bet meeting that fucker in Austria

Best of luck man, but you agree with the MU right?

Dont trust him!! @Dja_Homies doesnt know anything

 

[Wigy]

If I go to egp that week. I'll play xaraka in a streamed ft5 in casuals if he'd like. No money since I'm a broke college boy but I'd like to see how that mu goes offline. If I get blown up so be it haha

Post the match on jc forums or send me a link; i'd appreciate it bud. I hate that MU

 

[RM Truth]

D4 could probably use a slight nerf.

 

[LeftOverShark]

D4 could probably use a slight nerf.

Shhhhhh d4 will low profile the nerf anyways.

 

[Dja_Homies]

Damn don't teach him everything as I bet meeting that fucker in Austria

Best of luck man, but you agree with the MU right?

Yeah for now stunt double seems to lose the mu from my time online lol. A list is 5-5 though IMO. I'll tell you my exact number for the sd mu if and when I play xaraka offline

 

[omooba]

Also jc doesn't have a really fucking stupid loopable pressure vs any cast with 8frame pokes.

i'm assuming what you're trying to say is you need 8frames to get out of it correct m

Okay apologies if you did

Dragons Fire is SD's worst MU it's about 6.5/7 to Kang

D3 and low fireball are the killers, as Kang forces Cage to jump, Kangs D3 beats Cage F3, F2, SK, Ex SK, jump attacks, when Cage gets in F3 range nothing is really stopping you from mashing D3, also Kang is one of the few chars that can full combo whiff punish Cages D4 consistently with your low starter which is easy mode in tripgaurding Cage
And also Cages fastest poke is 8 frames so Cage cannot poke out of Kangs pressure either
Kang completely shuts down Cages footsies
The only place where Johny beats Kang is in the corner

Plus if I switch to Jax or Kano against Kang the match is a hell of a lot easier

I don't think Cage loses to Cassie, Kotal or Dvirah like some other people do but he most definitely loses to Kang

i thought you need 8 frames to trade? so technically he can get out and this second part is more of a question than a statement.
if cage run cancels then when out of stamina he does mb fireball what exactly are u supposed to do about that.
i'm thinking you can guess if he's going to do knee or something you can duck but are there any other options?

 

[omooba]

Im not talking about hes main cancels beeing armored, im talking about the , 1 f2/ 11 throw / 12[1] f2 and 114 skrc mixup that is essential as soon as ur opponent actually labs with A-list and fuzzy guards everything. Each of them will lose to quick armor moves.

i think i understand a little better what you mean. IMO kang has the same options. as a kang player i feel if all you do is the block string you're not gonna get far if you're fighting someone who knows what they're doing, you're gonna play how Johnny plays close range. but what i really prefer about Johnny is knee. i use a lot of pressure characters jax, kang, d'vorah, lao, and no one has a button like knee. not even jax. johnny is the only one i can whiff punish d1's with consistently.
let's all just agree cage and kang are both disgusting

 

[Asodimazze]

i think i understand a little better what you mean. IMO kang has the same options. as a kang player i feel if all you do is the block string you're not gonna get far if you're fighting someone who knows what they're doing, you're gonna play how Johnny plays close range. but what i really prefer about Johnny is knee. i use a lot of pressure characters jax, kang, d'vorah, lao, and no one has a button like knee. not even jax. johnny is the only one i can whiff punish d1's with consistently.
let's all just agree cage and kang are both disgusting

No way lol, Kang is just a better character in almost everything. F3 is not enough to say that Cage is on par with him.
Cage is more on Jax level, a good character, debatable top 10.
Liu Kang might possibly be better than Tempest

 

[omooba]

fireballs can be interrupted and low profiled and have too much pushback for anything except f3, so they can backdash or armour. Also it doesn't fly you 3/4screen and sit u right next to them.

b12 for liu is way better than 12 for breaking armour and also can be low profiled. On wakeup jc cant just do 12 like liu can do b12 cause its a high.

12 rc has nowhere near as much chip as lius strings.

f44 obviously isn't better than f3 but with alllll your options your space control/footsies is just as good.

taleda d'vora both high tier and get destroyed by liu

You say you play both of them, your lack of knowledge on cage is shockingly bad for someone you play so im guna stop this argument as you clearly don't know the character. Sorry to be a dick about it.

fireballs can't be interupted after f2, f21, f3 he doesn't need more than that. and he doesn't need to be able to do more than knee cus knee into 114 into 214 does about 7% chip and can't be armored. also you said i can backdash after fireball. you can also backdash after flying kick.
b12 being better than 12 i think is a matter of opinion cus cage's start up is 6 frames and liu's is a mid
and no liu's spacing tools mid range are not as good as knee not even close. i don't think anyone who looks at both characters objectively will say this regardless of who you think is better. this shouldn't even be a debate
and why are you only using 12 run cancel to check for chip. after every nutpunch you can do 9% chip full block string. i beieve i said they get the same dmg on chip difference is liu's are mids. and this isn't a huge crutch cus you don't want to block low against cage
i haven't said anything that shows lack off knowledge in this conversation. most of the things you're saying isn't anything that isn't common knowledge so i don't get why you would even say that at all

 

[omooba]

No way lol, Kang is just a better character in almost everything. F3 is not enough to say that Cage is on par with him.
Cage is more on Jax level, a good character, debatable top 10.
Liu Kang might possibly be better than Tempest

so we can't even agree they're both nasty?
well that's your opinion and most of tym's opinion i think but i still feel and a lot of people do to that cage is very close to kang. personally prefer cage but i can't agree with kang being way better than him. just my opinion
and i wasn't trying to say f3 puts him on par i was trying to point out that cage doesn't have most of kang's weaknessess

 

[IrishMantis]

i'm assuming what you're trying to say is you need 8frames to get out of it correct m

i thought you need 8 frames to trade? so technically he can get out and this second part is more of a question than a statement.
if cage run cancels then when out of stamina he does mb fireball what exactly are u supposed to do about that.
i'm thinking you can guess if he's going to do knee or something you can duck but are there any other options?

Nope you need a 7 frame to beat it if your +2 and you do a 9 frame moves that's 7 frames

I'm speaking more on SD not Alist btw

 

[omooba]

Nope you need a 7 frame to beat it if your +2 and you do a 9 frame moves that's 7 frames

I'm speaking more on SD not Alist btw

8 frame trades which techinically gets you out of it
don't hate me for saying that but it's true
and back dash is still a thing

 

[IrishMantis]

8 frame trades which techinically gets you out of it
don't hate me for saying that but it's true

That sounds very childish
"Don't hate me for saying that but it's true"

I'm not even gonna bother

 

[omooba]

That sounds very childish
"Don't hate me for saying that but it's true"

I'm not even gonna bother

ok?

 

[IrishMantis]

ok?

It's condescending as fuck

Plus Dizzy write a great explanation why an 8 frame does not beat it

Xaraka was wrong in that video which in sure he will say himself, he got confused on how frame data works in this game over reversals

But if frame perfect my Cages D1 loses 2-9 = 7

 

[omooba]

It's condescending as fuck

Plus Dizzy write a great explanation why an 8 frame does not beat it

Xaraka was wrong in that video which in sure he will say himself, he got confused on how frame data works in this game over reversals

But if frame perfect my Cages D1 loses 2-9 = 7

good to know
not trying to be condescending and i'll try it for myself too

 

[Rodney Quillz]

And after this patch, let's go after stunt double boyz!

10-15 second cool down on clones!

You guys fine with that?

 

[ArmedCalf]

Is there anything that could tone down A-List while leaving the others untouched?

Not that I care - I hate this character.

 

[omooba]

It's condescending as fuck

Plus Dizzy write a great explanation why an 8 frame does not beat it

Xaraka was wrong in that video which in sure he will say himself, he got confused on how frame data works in this game over reversals

But if frame perfect my Cages D1 loses 2-9 = 7

ok so i have a converter which has a turbo button and i did the meterburn kick and set it to spam b1 jillion times and johnny's d1 8 frames beat it everytime. not trade just beat it. idk if netherrealm is lying or my equipment is fucked up but this is how i always test stuff that require timing.
have you tried this for yourself?
johnny's d3 10 frames trades and his d4 11 frames get's beat.
again i'm using turbo mode i've tried this with 2 converters. 1 the brooke converter and 2 the xcm cross fire converter. sooo yeah idk

edit:i tried with liu's d1(9frames) instead of b1. d1 trades with johnny's 8frames. so i think the game is lying on b1's frames and probably mb flying kick's frames test it yourself

 

[PapaRegadetho]

Lets see what will happen with A-List after DF gets destroyed, the A-List witch hunt has yet to begin.Just give people more time to realize how good A-List really is. It will happen sooner or later, meanwhile Kung Lao still will dominate everyone as an honest character

 

[MadPropz101]

Saying Cage needs nerfs is probably even funnier than saying Sonya is below S tier.

 

[omooba]

Saying Cage needs nerfs is probably even funnier than saying Sonya is below S tier.

whaaat!?