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Sheeva Discussion Thread

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
I wish her bf4 was easier to land on breakaway. I set the AI to fast, delay, and late breakaway, and its tricky for me to microdash and snag the fast breakwaway. I wish it could be one db4 timing for them all, the way some other's armor break is.

Variation 2 I think I'm gonna begin doing what @OPS_soldier was saying and using most db2 over bf3. Poke into amp db2 is safe and can force opp to respect you by less mashing. If not then the KB will get loaded really fast.
 

Pterodactyl

Plus on block.
Wow. Sheevas v2 is great. Ive been playing it on PC and something I really like is that it punishes mashers. Once you land that db2 shield, people tend to want to mash because they are so far away. In the corner people keep trying to mash when you're plus 14.

But... Is there really a point of doing a full combo in this variation? Enlighten me if Im wrong, but it seems like the restand is better because if they try to breakaway youre going to have to use bf4 special anyways to hope you break armor and you might as well have left them restanded? Maybe Im missing something. The db2 crushing blow is useless too because the launcher does more damage over all and the db2 shield is better restanded.
Yes, I especially appreciate bf4 in the matchups where people try to exploit your inconsistent range.

It goes way further than a lot of players respect.

I do agree though i've noticed it honestly a better us of meter to confirm into bf4 amp combos than to spend it on amp db2. Even amp bf4 is better use of the meter depending on the matchup.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
Yes, I especially appreciate bf4 in the matchups where people try to exploit your inconsistent range.


I do agree though i've noticed it honestly a better us of meter to confirm into bf4 amp combos than to spend it on amp db2. Even amp bf4 is better use of the meter depending on the matchup.
I don't get it, why do you say that? At least amping into db2 will get you a KB towards end of match. Do you mean after juggling with bf3 to break armor?
 

kevkopdx

Noob
Does she have whiffing issues on a jump attack into 21? I was just playing an erron black and every time i did a jump in 1 into 2,1 -- the 1 kept whiffing... This happened with someone else, maybe Fujin or subzero? In practice mode, the spacing seems to be the problem... but if the 2 connects on block, shouldnt the 1 connect too? I'm not a fighting game wiz so this is confusing me, can anyone explain this to me please?
 
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Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
Does she have whiffing issues on a jump attack into 21? I was just playing an erron black and every time i did a jump in 1 into 2,1 -- the 1 kept whiffing... This happened with someone else, maybe Fujin or subzero? In practice mode, the spacing seems to be the problem... but if the 2 connects on block, shouldnt the 1 connect too? I'm not a fighting game wiz so this is confusing me, can anyone explain this to me please?
I was able to reproduce it on Erron fairly easily. I tried a few other characters but didn't find anyone else right away it happened on, but there are loads I didn't try and it's totally possible it could happen on other characters.

I'm going to suggest though, that you don't do that sequence. I think we are all tempted to just toss out 21's and hope it hits for some big damage (I'm assuming v1 I guess IDK how damage works in the others), but it's kind of a cheese ball tactic that will break down once people find out it's punishable or fight someone that just presses all the time. It is -10 on block and Erron gets to combo punish you for just doing it. Given the spacing you are left in, I'd assume just about everyone could punish it on block.

You would be better off going for b122, which is easily hit confirmed into more, won't wiff, and -2 on block. So totally safe. And if you need/want to threaten with overheads b211 is a safer way to do something similar. The hit confirm is a little weird, and some people may not be up to it, but you can press b21, confim, 1, special/super cancel. If you are playing v1 you are going to miss out on some damage, but you aren't risking your life just tossing out. 21 is better for a guaranteed punish than just putting it out there.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
I was able to reproduce it on Erron fairly easily. I tried a few other characters but didn't find anyone else right away it happened on, but there are loads I didn't try and it's totally possible it could happen on other characters.

I'm going to suggest though, that you don't do that sequence. I think we are all tempted to just toss out 21's and hope it hits for some big damage (I'm assuming v1 I guess IDK how damage works in the others), but it's kind of a cheese ball tactic that will break down once people find out it's punishable or fight someone that just presses all the time. It is -10 on block and Erron gets to combo punish you for just doing it. Given the spacing you are left in, I'd assume just about everyone could punish it on block.

You would be better off going for b122, which is easily hit confirmed into more, won't wiff, and -2 on block. So totally safe. And if you need/want to threaten with overheads b211 is a safer way to do something similar. The hit confirm is a little weird, and some people may not be up to it, but you can press b21, confim, 1, special/super cancel. If you are playing v1 you are going to miss out on some damage, but you aren't risking your life just tossing out. 21 is better for a guaranteed punish than just putting it out there.
Agreed. I think 21 is mostly useful as a mixup string for V3 tactics. It's V1's big dmg payout string, but I think should be saved for guaranteed punish situations. Not worth the risk imo. V1 is more a lame you out, chip away your health type variation.

Does she have whiffing issues on a jump attack into 21? I was just playing an erron black and every time i did a jump in 1 into 2,1 -- the 1 kept whiffing... This happened with someone else, maybe Fujin or subzero? In practice mode, the spacing seems to be the problem... but if the 2 connects on block, shouldnt the 1 connect too? I'm not a fighting game wiz so this is confusing me, can anyone explain this to me please?
I think Erron is notorious for making weird things that should jail whiff.
 

kevkopdx

Noob
I was able to reproduce it on Erron fairly easily. I tried a few other characters but didn't find anyone else right away it happened on, but there are loads I didn't try and it's totally possible it could happen on other characters.

I'm going to suggest though, that you don't do that sequence. I think we are all tempted to just toss out 21's and hope it hits for some big damage (I'm assuming v1 I guess IDK how damage works in the others), but it's kind of a cheese ball tactic that will break down once people find out it's punishable or fight someone that just presses all the time. It is -10 on block and Erron gets to combo punish you for just doing it. Given the spacing you are left in, I'd assume just about everyone could punish it on block.

You would be better off going for b122, which is easily hit confirmed into more, won't wiff, and -2 on block. So totally safe. And if you need/want to threaten with overheads b211 is a safer way to do something similar. The hit confirm is a little weird, and some people may not be up to it, but you can press b21, confim, 1, special/super cancel. If you are playing v1 you are going to miss out on some damage, but you aren't risking your life just tossing out. 21 is better for a guaranteed punish than just putting it out there.
I use v2... this sequence catches a lot of people off guard and it’s easily hit confirmable, I just end with db2 amp if they block. Yes I know there is a flawless block gap. Your advice is sound though, I’m still learning the character. Thank you! More than anything I was just confused as to why this is happening
 

Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
I use v2... this sequence catches a lot of people off guard and it’s easily hit confirmable, I just end with db2 amp if they block. Yes I know there is a flawless block gap. Your advice is sound though, I’m still learning the character. Thank you! More than anything I was just confused as to why this is happening
It does catch people off guard, which is why it's tempting to do. If you can pay to keep it safe, then that is something as long as you have meter and are willing to spend your attack bar on it. Looks like you get a lot of pushback as long as it's not FB'ed and does a pretty good job of resetting the neutral with the distance and -2 frame situation.

I know this is away from the original point (and me rehashing), but you are spending resources to make that a go to option, and I still think there are options that serve the similar functions that are worth mixing in that cost nothing and can be less risky. Less risky starts to make sense when your life gets lower. B122 is -2 on block and leaves you close. At -2 you can be deliberately disrespectful with down pokes if they are initiating their turns a lot with slow moves or highs. You don't get all the push back so you can use both options to position them as needed. The MBdb2 to keep them away, and b122 to keep them close and for more pressure options.

One thing I was working on today was doing b2 stuff that lets you fish for an overhead that is -4 on block. It has the same "my second hit is an overhead" thing going for it that 21 does. The down side is it doesn't popup, and has slower startup that forces you to know when it's safe to use, and makes it a little easier react to.

The pros are that it hits mid, has better reach than 21, moves her in a little, and is totally safe. It has lots of active frames (2+22) so it appears to be a good meaty move. Fishing with f1's at a distance will leave you +10 on a stray hit which gives you enough time to go for a b2 overhead that will trade with -7f pokes, or just do b122 which nobody can stop you from doing safely. Hit confirming b2 into b211 is tricky, so that is a slight negative, but it's not at all unreasonable and basically lets you put out an overhead safely, that leads to a combo on hit. That's pretty cool. (For reference, the hit confirm works by always pressing b21, wait for the hit, and confirm the final 1 press. It lets you press the second 1 way later and it all works out pretty well and you never have to commit to b211 which is -9)

I've had to really try and drill these other options into my head over the last few days get them to come out in matches. Some of her strings feel super unnatural to do, but I feel like these are things that are working, especially against people that don't have a strong closeup game.
 

kevkopdx

Noob
It does catch people off guard, which is why it's tempting to do. If you can pay to keep it safe, then that is something as long as you have meter and are willing to spend your attack bar on it. Looks like you get a lot of pushback as long as it's not FB'ed and does a pretty good job of resetting the neutral with the distance and -2 frame situation.

I know this is away from the original point (and me rehashing), but you are spending resources to make that a go to option, and I still think there are options that serve the similar functions that are worth mixing in that cost nothing and can be less risky. Less risky starts to make sense when your life gets lower. B122 is -2 on block and leaves you close. At -2 you can be deliberately disrespectful with down pokes if they are initiating their turns a lot with slow moves or highs. You don't get all the push back so you can use both options to position them as needed. The MBdb2 to keep them away, and b122 to keep them close and for more pressure options.

One thing I was working on today was doing b2 stuff that lets you fish for an overhead that is -4 on block. It has the same "my second hit is an overhead" thing going for it that 21 does. The down side is it doesn't popup, and has slower startup that forces you to know when it's safe to use, and makes it a little easier react to.

The pros are that it hits mid, has better reach than 21, moves her in a little, and is totally safe. It has lots of active frames (2+22) so it appears to be a good meaty move. Fishing with f1's at a distance will leave you +10 on a stray hit which gives you enough time to go for a b2 overhead that will trade with -7f pokes, or just do b122 which nobody can stop you from doing safely. Hit confirming b2 into b211 is tricky, so that is a slight negative, but it's not at all unreasonable and basically lets you put out an overhead safely, that leads to a combo on hit. That's pretty cool. (For reference, the hit confirm works by always pressing b21, wait for the hit, and confirm the final 1 press. It lets you press the second 1 way later and it all works out pretty well and you never have to commit to b211 which is -9)

I've had to really try and drill these other options into my head over the last few days get them to come out in matches. Some of her strings feel super unnatural to do, but I feel like these are things that are working, especially against people that don't have a strong closeup game.
I’ll have to try some of your suggestions... one of the great things about db2 on hit in v2 is that it’s plus enough for you to dash in and d3... sheeva has a lot of neat little things she can do. Fun character to explore and v2 feels like a super honest character.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
Early on Tom Brady said V2 was the best Sheeva variation bc it was safe

But watching tourneys and from my little experience, Sheeva seems kinda tough to punish in V3 even when she whiffs DF4 or BF4. Is it just me? Are yall eating punishes for making the wrong read with V3?
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Early on Tom Brady said V2 was the best Sheeva variation bc it was safe

But watching tourneys and from my little experience, Sheeva seems kinda tough to punish in V3 even when she whiffs DF4 or BF4. Is it just me? Are yall eating punishes for making the wrong read with V3?
I mean, Mean Queen's db4 is -21 on block, so yeah you're gonna eat shit if they block it.

I agree with Tom. I'll also add that having a long-reaching 12-frame mid reversal launcher in bf3 also makes V2 the best.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
I mean, Mean Queen's db4 is -21 on block, so yeah you're gonna eat shit if they block it.

I agree with Tom. I'll also add that having a long-reaching 12-frame mid reversal launcher in bf3 also makes V2 the best.
The shield sucks ass tho IMO. It's hit adv is horrible, seems the hit opponent can just dash in on you mid screen after they are HIT. If that variation had Sheeva's regular fireball then I'd say V2 hands down, no question.

Dragon dash is legit tho.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
The shield sucks ass tho IMO. It's hit adv is horrible, seems the hit opponent can just dash in on you mid screen after they are HIT. If that variation had Sheeva's regular fireball then I'd say V2 hands down, no question.

Dragon dash is legit tho.
Yeah not sure why NRS made it -1 on hit lol.
 

Agilaz

#ShangLivesMatter
Premium Supporter
Hot take: i dont think sheeva has any winning MU's. She has some that i would say go as far as being 7-3 in her opponents favour, like frost, but she has nothing that allows her to force her gameplan on the opponent. A 16f advancing mid is imo not answer to her range issues because every other character has faster ones. Even if you do get in, in most cases your opponent either needs to backdash or even just walk back to whiff punish pretty much anything you throw out.

her sweep/b3/throw blender would be better if the wakeup system wasn't a giant guessing game.
 

Espio

Jax Whacks Hacks Across Their Backs
Lead Moderator
Hot take: i dont think sheeva has any winning MU's. She has some that i would say go as far as being 7-3 in her opponents favour, like frost, but she has nothing that allows her to force her gameplan on the opponent. A 16f advancing mid is imo not answer to her range issues because every other character has faster ones. Even if you do get in, in most cases your opponent either needs to backdash or even just walk back to whiff punish pretty much anything you throw out.

her sweep/b3/throw blender would be better if the wakeup system wasn't a giant guessing game.
Can I see your match up chart please?
 

Agilaz

#ShangLivesMatter
Premium Supporter
Can I see your match up chart please?
I haven't made one, but having played against the entire cast i dont think she has a distinct strength or advantage over any other character.

Who do you think she actually beats?
 
I wish her bf4 was easier to land on breakaway. I set the AI to fast, delay, and late breakaway, and its tricky for me to microdash and snag the fast breakwaway. I wish it could be one db4 timing for them all, the way some other's armor break is.

Variation 2 I think I'm gonna begin doing what @OPS_soldier was saying and using most db2 over bf3. Poke into amp db2 is safe and can force opp to respect you by less mashing. If not then the KB will get loaded really fast.
Be careful. DB2 has a flawless block gap if I remember correctly. Low key I still use it as a safe special though haha

Shield charge is great! It's the rest of v2 that is questionable, all because shield twirl has that flawless block gap.
Use the shield more like a plus frame thing. Thats what I do. You probably lose a lot of damage but what you could do is use it once you expend all your offensive meter since the 14 frame restand is free. I think that was the point of the variation? Idk though because all the damaging combos push your opponent WAY too far away to start doing the restand setups. I guess in theory you could use it to carry them to the corner and get a true strike throw reset with no offensive meter left.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
For real though, can someone explain to me the logic behind Sheeva's V2 shield projectile? There's no advantage on hit. It's like a liability if it connects for you in close/mid range. What's the purpose?