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Strategy "Shazam!" -- Captain Marvel General Discussion Thread

H

Heroic_Legacy

Apprentice
Every situation has a different punish, it's your own fault for trying to use the same punish for everything. Practice mode is there for a reason.
 
Santaclaus

Santaclaus

Noob
I didn't see where the part after: "every situation has a different punish" is needed. it seemed like throwing it in my face for no good reason. but I guess I took it the wrong way, no problem. thanks anyway
 
S

Sneak

Noob
Santaclaus said:
I never said he sucks I said he was very difficult to use and it can be disheartening at this point in the game. you're pretty much kicking down open doors but maybe I deserved it.


[edit]


this is something I can work with better. I guess I understand what and why now, but man it can be tough to get in and get the momentum going.

who would you say it even tougher to use than shazam btw?

also is 22 HM best punnisher in all situations?
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I would say joker is harder to use.
 
Cage Redfield

Cage Redfield

Fight!
Sneak said:
I came across some universal tech in tournament today. Ever have a problem with someone wagering your winning combo? It looks like if you combo b3 to f3, it cannot be wagered at all. So if someone has low health and a wager left, if you do your combo with mb dbf1, b3 then j3 they can wager but if you use f3 its a reset and you can chip them out basically for free.
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Yeah, this is universal tech that was found some time ago. I've been using it as a ghetto setup into meaty Herculean Might shenanigans for the W, not actually sure if it's legit or if people are only getting hit by it since its week 2 of the game's life n all.
 
SonicBoomBrad

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
Santaclaus said:
I never said he sucks I said he was very difficult to use and it can be disheartening at this point in the game. you're pretty much kicking down open doors but maybe I deserved it.
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I wasn't trying to come at you, I was just trying to correct you and lead you in the right direction. I gave you a counter to pretty much everything you complained about in your post in order to help you learn from it. I had no ill intentions. Good luck with him though. He's a really fun character to play.
 
Cage Redfield

Cage Redfield

Fight!
Santaclaus said:
.

who would you say it even tougher to use than shazam btw?

also is 22 HM best punnisher in all situations?
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Definitely Joker, Bane, Nightwing, Green Arrow and Lex Luthor. Joker's in the process of being cracked open by some dudes, Bane's initially easy but learning when to use Venom and how to use it is kinda stopping me from playing him. Nightwing because learning two stances, Green Arrow because he's not actually a zoner but has really bad midscreen damage and is all about cornering the opponent, and Lex is a weird "setting up camp" kinda dude.

I use 22 primarily for blockstrings and mixup between AC grab or HM grab, can't jump away from canceling into HM version, actually haven't tested if you can jump from AC version, if so, lulz (testing now with some other things). Could be used for punishes too i guess, since it has decent startup on the move.

EDIT: you can jump if Shazam tries the low grab in 22 mixup. I'll have a note about the 22 mixup later.

You can't duck to escape the grab off Back 3, Forward 3 setup, so it's just as legit as any other setup. Use it, especially if you miraculously found a way to use trait during the match.

Speaking of trait, I took a combo MashPotatoTower posted in the combo thread and added a setup at the end of it. Hella impractical, as it requires you to literally hit it the very moment you activate trait, but dear god the damage is just laughable.

Jump 3, 12 xx Herculean Might MB, Back 3, Jump 3, Sweep. Pause, Herculean Might MB, Back 3, Jump 3, 12 xx Atlas Torpedo MB. Does 54% then 46% (yes, a OHKO) if they get scooped after sweep. This character lol. You don't have to spend meter on the Atlas Torpedo ender, as it leaves them with like, 4% left.

as for 22 into a grab, I noticed something odd in the training room. If you set the dummy to crouch and block everything, they can't escape either grab option. Dummy stays standing during 22's block stun ( i seriously don't get why the dummy stands to block mids, but ok ), and the startup of low grab is juuuuuuust slightly slow enough to catch the very moment 22's blockstun wears off and dummy crouches. Is there some sort of thing with blocking if you block something standing, they can't enter crouching frames or something? Was this in MK9? Because it's kinda weird lol.
 
Redk9

Redk9

Mortal
SonicBoomBrad said:
Shazam is a character with incredible mixup. He isn't supposed to be easy to pick up. This character is very rewarding in that once you do finally get in, the round is pretty much over. You're calling Shazam a bad character not becuase of his faults, but because of yours. Of course superman, deathstroke, and doomsday are easy to pick up. They're also a lot easier to scrub out with, but that doesn't make them better characters in the slightest aside from superman being pretty ridiculous. He has pretty decent range on most of his chains, f12 and b23 being examples of this. J2 beats pretty much everyone air to air in the game, making it an amazing anti air. Plus most characters don't have an AA. You don't need a reversal, if anything, not having one teaches you better mechanics and will make you an overall better player. He does not have a shitty b3, have you seen Adams? Why in the hell would anyone besides Ares and Lantern use f3? He doesn't need a good projectile, the one he has is good enough to trade with other projectiles if you have the life lead, plus he has a teleport. Complaining about inputs being hard really doesn't make him a worse character, I'd use C. Viper as an example but I'm not sure if you know who that is. If they jump back they're pushing themselves into the corner, in which Shazam's mix up is much stronger anyway. And blocking a reversal to punish is part of the risk you take when setting up a vortex, you have to guess as well. Plus you can punish almost every reversal in the game with 22>command grab, or even just a raw command grab.

So there you go. Get into training mode, and practice match ups. You'll get there. You just need to stop blaming the character instead of blaming yourself, and look to improve.
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The honest key to preforming well with Shazam is understanding that he isn't that good. Picking a secondary that covers his bad match ups is a smart move. Shazam isn't so much of a standard mix up character as a risky 50/50 character. Unlike most characters his mix ups are extraordinarily unsafe. He's an up close character but doesn't do the same damage most up close characters do. His trait is also really bad. I will probably be one of the few representations of Shazam at a tournament level, and I completely understand he's a bottom 5 character. Its not so much he's a trash character, its just that there are 19 other characters with better tools. Also comparing Shazam to C viper is outlandish. The guide classifys shazam as a high risk medium reward character which is true. C Viper is the hard to use character, but powerful character when mastered. That would be killer frost, and joker.
 
RoGE

RoGE

Kombatant
This character's potential is REALLY high, I predict he'll be around top 10 by the end of the game's life. His teleport for example is soooo good.

edit: I am however starting to see his faults though, so I take back what I said about him being potential top 10, however I still don't think he is a bad character.
 
W

WushuGushu

Noob
Loving shazams tp - With proper timing and match up knowledge ive been able to get through zoning pretty easily.. Mainly vs DS / GL
 
T

TerraSnake112

Noob
Hello, just got the game today and have long before decided to main Shazam. I made an account just for this and was gonna make a thread but decided to post this here. Today, after spending over 3 hours in training mode getting combos and tech down, I hopped online to check out how the game played there. There was a drastic difference in my playstyle. I couldn't perform any of my combos outside of the basic stuff (13% - 16%). Now, since Shazam doesn't rely on combos as much as he does mix-ups and guessing games, this still was a big problem since I was letting victories slip through my fingers. My question to you all is two fold. Has anyone else had this problem? And if so do you have any "online only" combos for Shazam?

Or do I just have to suck it up and learn to deal with input lag?
 
CCVengeance

CCVengeance

The one guy hoping for Kai
TerraSnake112 said:
Hello, just got the game today and have long before decided to main Shazam. I made an account just for this and was gonna make a thread but decided to post this here. Today, after spending over 3 hours in training mode getting combos and tech down, I hopped online to check out how the game played there. There was a drastic difference in my playstyle. I couldn't perform any of my combos outside of the basic stuff (13% - 16%). Now, since Shazam doesn't rely on combos as much as he does mix-ups and guessing games, this still was a big problem since I was letting victories slip through my fingers. My question to you all is two fold. Has anyone else had this problem? And if so do you have any "online only" combos for Shazam?

Or do I just have to suck it up and learn to deal with input lag?
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Pretty much,yeah.
 
T

Throwback

Noob
Redk9 said:
The honest key to preforming well with Shazam is understanding that he isn't that good. Picking a secondary that covers his bad match ups is a smart move. Shazam isn't so much of a standard mix up character as a risky 50/50 character. Unlike most characters his mix ups are extraordinarily unsafe. He's an up close character but doesn't do the same damage most up close characters do. His trait is also really bad. I will probably be one of the few representations of Shazam at a tournament level, and I completely understand he's a bottom 5 character. Its not so much he's a trash character, its just that there are 19 other characters with better tools. Also comparing Shazam to C viper is outlandish. The guide classifys shazam as a high risk medium reward character which is true. C Viper is the hard to use character, but powerful character when mastered. That would be killer frost, and joker.
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I have issues with the premise of your argument. First, being a 50/50 character you have to recognize that the 50% of the time you do come out ahead, you get a full combo. So it's 'fair' that your opponent returns the same; Shazam is all-or-nothing but that's not inherently bad.

Second, his damage may be lower than the other grapplers (I don't know for certain) but he has a couple of reasons for that - AT, lightning and teleport (and b2 and the fact that HM is the fastest command grab and longest range...), all of which are supremely non-standard for grapple characters. So if he's got slightly less damage it's a reflection of his tools and their properties. Don't count out trait either, as Shazam players get better they will use trait more and more.

The reason he's not used in tournaments is unrelated to his power (imho). It's not like if you play shazam you can't win >50% of your games or that you will lose every time against an equally skilled opponent. It's that even if you are better than your opponent, you might still lose due to his all-or-nothing design (at least on face value). And that's not the type of character you pick if you want to win tournaments.

My 2c.
 
Cage Redfield

Cage Redfield

Fight!
some tech involving the un-clashable combo from HM.

HM MB, Back 3, Forward 3. Teleport as soon as possible, HM again. It's a splat knockdown, so it's pretty much guaranteed unless you screw up the finicky timing of their wakeup animation(they are seriously on the ground for a while).
 
Shawi

Shawi

Apprentice
TerraSnake112 said:
Or do I just have to suck it up and learn to deal with input lag?
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I have two minds lol. When I'm playing online, I go about the exact same combo (f22...HMmb b3 ji2 f223 HM) except you simply need to adjust the timings. It is very awkward going back to the offline lab and dropping all combos looooool

BTW, i do not even try the above combo with ji3 online #impossible
 
Shawi

Shawi

Apprentice
TimTim said:
How do I get out of shazams spamming the dash attack that seems unblockable.
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duck and it will whiff over you. If the shazam player knows what they are doing, they will start using the low version (AC) which you need to stand up to make whiff. This is the 50/50 mixup
 
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