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Shang Tsung Playable at E3 NOW!!!

Gamer68

Kollector main who plays Jacqui
I just want to add that you can be disappointed in something but still like it overall.

Some of you make it sound like that just because some of us are upset about the ninja moves not being in that it means we aren't allowed to have fun with the character.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I just want to add that you can be disappointed in something but still like it overall.

Some of you make it sound like that just because some of us are upset about the ninja moves not being in that it means we aren't allowed to have fun with the character.
Why are detractors "allowed" to voice your disappointment, but we can't voice our appointment in response?
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I don't get why anyone thinks that'll open things up. It'll likely crunch things down. If you add a variation to every character that's "best possible" that isn't suddenly going to make this an MvC game where everyone has BS that can compete. You're just going to find out that 2 or 3 characters are REALLY fucking broken with a specific combination of moves and everyone will play them.

Then NRS gets to nerf that, and find out that another 2 or 3 characters have a combination that's ALMOST as bad that wasn't being played because of the previous ones.
This is the thing that people don’t seem to get about custom variations. They keep comparing to MvC2 and MvC3, but those are two of the more broken and unbalanced fighting games we’ve had in the FGC.

If people can’t handle Erron and Geras they’re definitely not Marvel players to begin with.

But more importantly, you’re exactly right — it’d be super open and fun until people learned what the strongest combinations are. Then people will switch to just playing the most broken combinations of moves and that’ll become the new S tier. And we’ll also be hearing tons of complaints about how certain moves are useless or not good enough, others are OP. This is just what competitive players do — find the best stuff and abuse it.
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
I feel like the game is too sterile right now. Every good fighting game has some dirt, some grime. The "cheapest" characters in mk11 would be mid tier in any other NRS game.

Open up the custom floodgates and let the game burn for a while. We don't even know what half of these characters are capable of because the most dedicated players are ignoring their locked away abilities. Tournament Erron is one of the only characters with actual options in a game full of barebones simple gameplans, customs could potentially change that.

A broken fighting game is more fun than a boring one, any fucking day
 

Gamer68

Kollector main who plays Jacqui
Why are detractors "allowed" to voice your disappointment, but we can't voice our appointment in response?
What, lol.

When did I say that you couldn't respond? And I never said you are (or aren't) "allowed" to do anything.

The only thing I was saying is that we can still enjoy Shang Tsung even if we are disappointed about the ninja moves not being in competitive.
 
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This is the thing that people don’t seem to get about custom variations. They keep comparing to MvC2 and MvC3, but those are two of the more broken and unbalanced fighting games we’ve had in the FGC.

If people can’t handle Erron and Geras they’re definitely not Marvel players to begin with.

But more importantly, you’re exactly right — it’d be super open and fun until people learned what the strongest combinations are. Then people will switch to just playing the most broken combinations of moves and that’ll become the new S tier. And we’ll also be hearing tons of complaints about how certain moves are useless or not good enough, others are OP. This is just what competitive players do — find the best stuff and abuse it.
I mean, mvc2 is certainly broken and got lucky to have a viable meta, but mvc3 was designed with all that in mind and is a pretty great game. You CAN handle things like that, but again MvC has a pretty small number of variables.

It's a cast of 36ish, with 3 possible variants per character that affects ONE thing, and those mostly fall into one class or another (beam, AA, combo extender, etc) so you can design around that. Further there's one very distinct way to affect that one thing (how long they're vulnerable during an assist call) so the game really isn't "Broken", if anything its heatlhy. It's got a decently large viable cast and bunch of ways to play. Yeah characters get to do nuts shit, butt you stand a chance with a large majority of the cast.

In comparison I don't just think that MK 11 will have a bunch of wacky shit (that's fine, plenty of games pull that off), but will just straight break in it's current state if you open the flood gates. I know someone said "well we'd know", but would we really? How many people are labbing out and testing all the bullshit you can do with misery blade/ice trap/whatever, and testing how those matchups go?

It'll be done eventually (somewhere right now someone like desk is breaking something I'm sure), but there's hardly as much incentive for the kind of people who WILL lab shit out because it's not going to make them win more. You open those flood gates and you'll see a lot more focus on figuring out what's busted, and I doubt NRS has planned for that.

And for the record they COULD do it. I do believe it's possible. Hell it may actually be their endgame where they decided that this will do for now while they take the data they get and the extra time to work on smoothing it out so it's not a train wreck, but it's a HUGE fucking project that probably starts with a lot more cost 2/3 specials to narrow down variables and interactions and may not lead to that many move viable variations (just more people getting to play what they want in ranked if they're ok losing with it).
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
Then people will switch to just playing the most broken combinations of moves and that’ll become the new S tier. And we’ll also be hearing tons of complaints about how certain moves are useless or not good enough, others are OP. This is just what competitive players do — find the best stuff and abuse it.
So basically... it’ll be what people already do with preset variations.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
And for the record they COULD do it. I do believe it's possible. Hell it may actually be their endgame where they decided that this will do for now while they take the data they get and the extra time to work on smoothing it out so it's not a train wreck, but it's a HUGE fucking project that probably starts with a lot more cost 2/3 specials to narrow down variables and interactions and may not lead to that many move viable variations (just more people getting to play what they want in ranked if they're ok losing with it).
I‘m not sure it’s as huge as you think. They’ve already done all of the hard work. All of the systems are in place for balancing and selecting moves. All they need is the UI and let people have fun. If something is extremely “broken” (which seems very unlikely at this point), it’s a very simple fix. Change the slots costs, or simple make certain moves incompatible with each other. It’s all already in place.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
This custom variation stuff is the smartest move NRS ever did.
They get to show a bunch of hype moves and combos in the trailers and not even bother balance it out because we can't use 2/3 of it in tournament or ranked.
It will become the dumbest thing they ever did if they don't make the obvious decision to let custom variations ride. The game would last twice as long and be so much more interesting. You would only need to do it online.
 
People asking for customs but when someone is in a tourney and losses money because they are dealing with some insanely busted stuff tunes will change.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
So basically... it’ll be what people already do with preset variations.
Yeah, my guess is that if you enabled preset variations as they stand now for tourney, you’d end up with the same level of diversity as now after a month or so, with decreased balance and increased counterpicking.

It’d really take a massive effort to get it right. I don’t think it’s the instant panacea/fix to all issues that people are making it out to be.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
People asking for customs but when someone is in a tourney and losses money because they are dealing with some insanely busted stuff tunes will change.
If they were really good enough to win a tournament, they’d be able to adapt and overcome.
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
Yeah, my guess is that if you enabled preset variations as they stand now for tourney, you’d end up with the same level of diversity as now after a month or so,
Bigdick disagree right here. Players don't automatically gravitate towards the most powerful character, they gravitate towards the most powerful strategy in their comfort zone.

Beta Kabal was the best example of this. He was regarded by some as the strongest in the game, but with customs he could be played in so many ways. Zoner, anti-zoner, cancel god, mixing boy, combo queen or nearly any combination you wanted.

And now because of bitch ass mandated variations he has Nomad Spin, universally regarded as useless, stuck on him
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
I feel so many characters are either bland or extremely limited in MK11. Customs won't fix every character obviously like how Kotal is plagued with hitbox issues that have nothing to do with variations but I want the freedom to see what could be with every character. Special moves are very powerful in this game, its not like X where most had combo launchers, 11 most characters launch is tied to a single tournament variation through special moves.
I want Hitboxs, Krushing blow requirements fixed and Kustoms made Ranked viable. If anything is truly broken then it can be patched shortly after discovery. But keep in mind its not often tools are so broken they get banned from tournament.
I just want us to have the freedom to make our flavor of character that fits our personal style in ranked/tournament and we can start to see truly unique versions played at tournaments and in ranked.

Imbalance is inevitable in any fighter, why are we worried what custom will bring so much we limit what could be?
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
ya unroolie went through the frame data. its on one of his twitch vods.
Didnt show any of soultaker (2nd tournament variation) by chance did he?

Havnt seen any footage of that and the 3 abilities in that variation from any the e3 stuff :(
 

King Cash

Next Level
They pulled a bait and switch, showed you one thing, gave you another.. Showed you a character using 4 abilities when you can only use 3.. I hope they get sued..
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
They pulled a bait and switch, showed you one thing, gave you another.. Showed you a character using 4 abilities when you can only use 3.. I hope they get sued..
Thats a good point. @Osu16bit called it "trailer magic". Thats a pretty funny way of saying false advertisement.

They've done this since MK9 I think. Where they'd show a character doing a bunch of EX moves into an X-Ray, but at least thats possible in practice mode or Test your Luck. NRS tried to sell us with a sick combo that's literally impossible in this game. It was a deadass lie.

Trailer magic my fucking ass.