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Señor Dave's Zoning Report Card

Vortexes that cost meter for every iteration are still vortexes though in my book. As long as opponent get meter and you guess wrong you are looped into same situation and have no other options short of breaker.

That said, TG Raiden can meterless vortex. Easier in the corner, but doable anywhere. Probably Lackey Torr too.


That's actually not a vortex unless both of her mixup options catch backdashes.
May be character specific though.
Raiden u can get out of, u dnt have to guess right on a block (already confirmed this) and torr nope but he can mix u up or bait a wakeup. I dnt count metered vortexes as true ones because they dnt continue forever but they are a category of a vortex so they make the list. I was talking about who can loop u no meter and do it forever unless u guess right.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Raiden u can get out of, u dnt have to guess right on a block (already confirmed this) and torr nope but he can mix u up or bait a wakeup. I dnt count metered vortexes as true ones because they dnt continue forever but they are a category of a vortex so they make the list. I was talking about who can loop u no meter and do it forever unless u guess right.
That's not a correct definition
 
That's not a correct definition
Yeah it actually is, if u are talking about who can loop u forever, quan is the only one that really comes to mind. U are talking about metered vortexes which don't last forever, look up millia in guilty gear when she corners you and u will see what I mean. Scorpion for sure doesn't loop u forever, his f4 is too slow. Sub zero absolutely not, u have options to get out that aren't just guessing right. A standing reset does not equal a vortex unless u can keep going like batgirl.
 
You can't armor out of being staggered at -21 frames when his options are 12f both.
....... If only I could show u a video. The b1,4 from him is not as plus as u would think. Without f1, he can't get a legit check on you. His OH and low aren't fast enough. Already tested this.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
....... If only I could show u a video. The b1,4 from him is not as plus as u would think. Without f1, he can't get a legit check on you. His OH and low aren't fast enough. Already tested this.
You are speaking about b14 (+7) and b14~lightning (+9) day 1 standing resets. You can armor there.
I'm speaking about b14~LRC, f12 (+17?) and b14~LRC, 21 (+21). You cannot armor there.

Check Raiden section, it has its own thread,
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
The wake up system isn't bad as you have many different windows to get up that OP has to read

The 50/50 game is a lot better better designed in MKX. the problem was In IGAU The 50/50s where mostly Safe/High Dmg/unfuzzyable/ Meterless Vortex that you where only forced with 2 guesses most of the time, with no chance of Armour this in most cases seems to be more at the players risk to try the 50/50 then the opponents.
I was expecting the first few months people go for the most easiest cheapest safest little thinking way to win in this because they can take advantage of people not known what to do like they did with Black Adam and superman from IGAU.

But now we are seen people find block strings, frame traps, cancels,pressure, zoning, learning there characters range,etc all beginning to show a lot more, i see the 50/50s always being a good tool, better for some rather than others, but as i said we are already seen people graduate from less chancing and more meta and it will continue to grow.

On Topic this was a well made write up Dave very analytical and detailed good shit.

Sidenote: I always wondered why they didn't give chars that rely mostly on zoning Stamina drain properties, like imagine Kenshi EX force push drains the opponents Stamina and leaves it a slow recharge like breaker so Kenshi can then use his zoning tools more effectively. I wonder if a mechanic like that is possible to patch in since they already have some sort of code from the breaker system.
 
You are speaking about b14 (+7) and b14~lightning (+9) day 1 standing resets. You can armor there.
I'm speaking about b14~LRC, f12 (+17?) and b14~LRC, 21 (+21). You cannot armor there.

Check Raiden section, it has its own thread,
oh u mean that? Forgot about his cancels, ok those count .
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
A vortex is a situation a character puts you in, not necessarily something they "have". If I put you into a guessing situation, and can keep putting you back into it until you guess right, that's a vortex. There's more to it, sure, but that's the gist.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
A vortex is a situation a character puts you in, not necessarily something they "have". If I put you into a guessing situation, and can keep putting you back into it until you guess right, that's a vortex.
If characters have tools for you to do that, it's fair to say that they have a vortex.

That said, something tells me that in that sense, many characters may have vortexes that are pretty bad and people won't count them. Like two fast strings with low/oh first hit that has enough hit advantage on both without launching / KDing. Like, enjoy your 7% vortex that is probably punishable lol.

Heck, we guys have managed to jack the thread, shame on us :p
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Yeah it actually is, if u are talking about who can loop u forever, quan is the only one that really comes to mind. U are talking about metered vortexes which don't last forever, look up millia in guilty gear when she corners you and u will see what I mean. Scorpion for sure doesn't loop u forever, his f4 is too slow. Sub zero absolutely not, u have options to get out that aren't just guessing right. A standing reset does not equal a vortex unless u can keep going like batgirl.
Health bars don't last forever
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Oh I forgot venomous, she can if she lands the bug spray, forgot her
If wakeup lasted just a tiny but longer swarm queen would a pretty good one :(

A vortex is a situation a character puts you in, not necessarily something they "have". If I put you into a guessing situation, and can keep putting you back into it until you guess right, that's a vortex.
Yeah but its a guessing situation where your only option is to block, no back dashing or armor or wakeups at all, at least from my understanding. Thats the part I think people forget, if I'm correct that is.
 
Unless it is quan, u are not in a loop where I have to guess OH or low. I will make a thread on what a vortex is actually supposed to be if I must. Most of the community seems to mix 50/50s with vortexes and they are not the same thing haha.
People will keep misunderstanding the definition of a vortex and to be honest commentary by some people is to blame for this. They will call anything a vortex
 

haketh

Noob
A vortex is a situation a character puts you in, not necessarily something they "have". If I put you into a guessing situation, and can keep putting you back into it until you guess right, that's a vortex.
That's not what a vortex is JFC, it's even if you guess right you get put back in a situation where the attacker is back at advantage IE Super Cammy/Akuma, MVC2 Magneto, ST Claw
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
The wake up system isn't bad as you have many different windows to get up that OP has to read

The 50/50 game is a lot better better designed in MKX. the problem was In IGAU The 50/50s where mostly Safe/High Dmg/unfuzzyable/ Meterless Vortex that you where only forced with 2 guesses most of the time, with no chance of Armour this in most cases seems to be more at the players risk to try the 50/50 then the opponents.
I was expecting the first few months people go for the most easiest cheapest safest little thinking way to win in this because they can take advantage of people not known what to do like they did with Black Adam and superman from IGAU.

But now we are seen people find block strings, frame traps, cancels,pressure, zoning, learning there characters range,etc all beginning to show a lot more, i see the 50/50s always being a good tool, better for some rather than others, but as i said we are already seen people graduate from less chancing and more meta and it will continue to grow.

On Topic this was a well made write up Dave very analytical and detailed good shit.

Sidenote: I always wondered why they didn't give chars that rely mostly on zoning Stamina drain properties, like imagine Kenshi EX force push drains the opponents Stamina and leaves it a slow recharge like breaker so Kenshi can then use his zoning tools more effectively. I wonder if a mechanic like that is possible to patch in since they already have some sort of code from the breaker system.
Give Kenshi Spirit Caltrops to stop people from running
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
That's not what a vortex is JFC, it's even if you guess right you get put back in a situation where the attacker is back at advantage IE Super Cammy/Akuma, MVC2 Magneto, ST Claw
Sounds like just a really good vortex to me. What's "JFC"?