Señor Dave's Zoning Report Card

[Peckapowa]

zoning =/= long ranged attacks.

Zoning= utilization of space / controlling space

What's the point of a long move?? The space it controls

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I heard a whisper in the wind, and if accurate kenshi will no longer be low tier in upcoming patches.


@General M2Dave


This isn't actual tier list position, is it?? Because cyber Kano just b1s quan all day and dragons fire liu just frame traps to death

This little bird talk is full of shit, tom has no source. No one is talking to tom about anything

Be real here

 

[Peckapowa]

This little bird talk is full of shit, tom has no source. No one is talking to tom about anything

Be real here

If he winds up with improved walk speed, flurry from -24 to -10, his overhead in kenjutsu cross variations and shoulder buffed to 9 frames then my source is correct. If not he's a little liar and I've mislead you on false information from 13 year olds

 

[QUAN-FUSION]

What about jax-heavy weapons?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

What about jax-heavy weapons?

Nope.

 

[coolwhip]

A-List Johnny Cage.

I am surprised you haven't given me props yet for playing a zoning character @General M2Dave

Maybe it's because you barely use Cage, fraud

 

[QUAN-FUSION]

Nope.

Care to elaborate?
I know the LAW is slow, but being able to change it to an air attack at will and cancel it adds mind games.
Chuck in the gun and pound and dash punch..

I guess it's more counter zoning?
But it works.

 

[SaltShaker]

Playing both Kano and Jacqui, I don't know if I'd rank her on the same level as Cyber Kano. Maybe A and B or so, but definitely not the same.

Against good players I can zone more consistently with Kano, and once they close the distance Kano can create the space again a lot easier. The better players tend to get around Jacqui's zoning, which when being slowed down is still good. Just not as good as Kano's zoning and space control. Also, Jacqui's incredible amount of "random inconsistencies" with her hit confirms and BnB's make her a little less reliable.


Other than that, I pretty much agree with everything in the OP.

 

[BillStickers]

I await Tigrar Fury Goro's report card.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Care to elaborate?
I know the LAW is slow, but being able to change it to an air attack at will and cancel it adds mind games.
Chuck in the gun and pound and dash punch..

His projectiles have too poo-ey recovery to play a reliable zoning game.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

If he winds up with improved walk speed, flurry from -24 to -10, his overhead in kenjutsu cross variations and shoulder buffed to 9 frames then my source is correct. If not he's a little liar and I've mislead you on false information from 13 year olds

I like you but this is the biggest load of horse shit

 

[Peckapowa]

Flame fist liu is a worst char. But his chip buffs are really good on his projectiles

Erron black marksman has excellent zoning in some mus and hw jax has arguably best single project. In game.

 

[Peckapowa]

I like you but this is the biggest load of horse shit

Could be

 

[Peckapowa]

His projectiles have too poo-ey recovery to play a reliable zoning game.

MGun, is bad, but his rocket is very good and destroys for trading and does a great job making sitting ducks and antiairs. It's cancellability.

 

[cHAncEman1292]

Just curious why isn't Royal Storm Kitanna or Marksmen Erron Black on this list? I also play Piercing Mileena, I was kinda curious how she stacked up too. You did a very good analysis of the characters OP I wanted to hear your thoughts on more.

 

[M2Dave]

Playing both Kano and Jacqui, I don't know if I'd rank her on the same level as Cyber Kano. Maybe A and B or so, but definitely not the same.

Against good players I can zone more consistently with Kano, and once they close the distance Kano can create the space again a lot easier. The better players tend to get around Jacqui's zoning, which when being slowed down is still good. Just not as good as Kano's zoning and space control. Also, Jacqui's incredible amount of "random inconsistencies" with her hit confirms and BnB's make her a little less reliable.

I think Jacqui's zoning could be as good as Kano's. Machine gun has advantages that the knife toss does not and vice versa.

In general, Jacqui is a poorly understood character. At a higher level, spamming machine gun will not do anything for you until you start taking advantage of neutral-crouching opponents. Jacqui's entire game plan is based on footsies and dealing with neutral-crouching opponents who mash low pokes.

Dash punch is very punishable but reverses positions, which is a big deal for a zoning character.

 

[Konqrr]

Pretty good and accurate. I agree with Kitana... she is shit.

 

[P0LARCLAW]

I think Jacqui's zoning could be as good as Kano's. Machine gun has advantages that the knife toss does not and vice versa.

In general, Jacqui is a poorly understood character. At a higher level, spamming machine gun will not do anything for you until you start taking advantage of neutral-crouching opponents. Jacqui's entire game plan is based on footsies and dealing with neutral-crouching opponents who mash low pokes.

Dash punch is very punishable but reverses positions, which is a big deal for a zoning character.

I'm curious about how Jacqui deals well with low pokes. In my experience it is the opposite. It seems like everyone with a 5 or 6 frame low poke can stop her pressure with it. Her fastest move that hits low opponents is 7F. Even her fastest reversal is a high. Her F12 is good for footsies, but against people with decently fast low pokes she doesn't get anything if it's blocked. Also, the only thing that she has that leaves her + is the high rockets.

I'm curious on what she should do. Perhaps sometimes canceling into low rocket on blocked strings? If there is a strategy that I'm not doing that deals well with low pokes, then please let me know. I actually would like to improve my game.

 

[kaseyk]

I agree with most of the liu kang points , mainly his mid tier rating because of his lack of safe overhead combined with his execution requirement and small hitbox struggles . Mkx is a safe mixup characters world so far and poor first to get normalized liu has to live in it lol .
But as a zoner i feel hes one of the best .

40% unbreakable iafb combos in dragon fire . ( great answer for njp lovers )

FF has the better traditional zoning though . buffed 10.5 and ex 15% plus his dragon kick is considerably faster with more range but is more punishable . He outzones gm sub forcing him to come in in this variation without to much work . This variation is just as good as dragon fire overall but better in the zoning department for sure .

Low fb then iafb full screen if the iafb hits you can run up and full combo .

Theres more fun zoner stuff to help his zoner rating and maybe in time put him in high mid tier .

 

[M2Dave]

I'm curious about how Jacqui deals well with low pokes. In my experience it is the opposite. It seems like everyone with a 5 or 6 frame low poke can stop her pressure with it. Her fastest move that hits low opponents is 7F. Even her fastest reversal is a high. Her F12 is good for footsies, but against people with decently fast low pokes she doesn't get anything if it's blocked. Also, the only thing that she has that leaves her + is the high rockets.

I'm curious on what she should do. Perhaps sometimes canceling into low rocket on blocked strings? If there is a strategy that I'm not doing that deals well with low pokes, then please let me know. I actually would like to improve my game.

Here is what I know. Keep in mind I am still learning and figuring out the system.

Blocked f+1 -> throw will beat low option select pokes that are 9 frames or slower. Jacqui's throw provides very good frame advantage, so just do another f+1 on your opponent's wake up.

Blocked f+1 -> walk back -> f+1 will punish low option select pokes that are 8 frames or faster.

Blocked f+1 -> d+1 will trade with low option select pokes that are 8 frames and beat anything slower. After blocked f+1, d+1 whiffs on all male characters and hits all female characters. Not 100% confirmed.

All anti option selects that work for f+1 will work for f+1,2 since the frame advantage (i.e., 0 on block) is the same.

In the neutral game, make opponents respect low rocket. You have to be able to move very well in order to achieve this.

 

[Sulfur]

Zoning= utilization of space / controlling space

What's the point of a long move?? The space it controls

That's not all there is to it though, that's my point.
Just because you have long reaching normals doesn't make you a good zoner, look at morrigan compared to ghost rider in mvc3 for example, which of those would you say is better at controlling space?

 

[Peckapowa]

That's not all there is to it though, that's my point.
Just because you have long reaching normals doesn't make you a good zoner, look at morrigan compared to ghost rider in mvc3 for example, which of those would you say is better at controlling space?

Just has to be zoning doesn't have to be good. It's what the super secret top tier strategy of rocket raccoon ghost rider and doom was meant for.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I hear talks of vortexs, yet how many characters actually have one they can loop until u guess right? Should be only quan haha. Scorpion his OH f4_ can be fuzzied so nope but it is a standing reset. All I hear is 50/50s when that is like all fighting games lol and ppl still aren't maximizing back dashes or delayed wakeup..... Besides that, I think vicous ferra torr has some legit zoning

 

[SaltShaker]

I think Jacqui's zoning could be as good as Kano's. Machine gun has advantages that the knife toss does not and vice versa.

In general, Jacqui is a poorly understood character. At a higher level, spamming machine gun will not do anything for you until you start taking advantage of neutral-crouching opponents. Jacqui's entire game plan is based on footsies and dealing with neutral-crouching opponents who mash low pokes.

Dash punch is very punishable but reverses positions, which is a big deal for a zoning character.

That is true. I have the most success when people are overthinking the MG and then mixing in her tools like run F1, low rockets, MG MB, and F3F4. I've been sticking with her as my secondary for the sole reason that I think she's underrated. She's a character that takes a little more practice and skill to use than some others so she gets dismissed outside of the "shoot 5 guns in a row" crew.

Dash punch is a blow up if they assume you'll do it, but you're right it's a bailout too. Saves my ass when I'm in the corner against pressure many times and puts them in it.

You may be right though. It might be that I'm just significantly better with Kano than I am with Jacqui so that's what I'm seeing. She for sure has a lot of potential yet to be brought out.

 

[Hellbringer]

M2dave toughts on kotal kahn bloodgod variation? It it a coinsidence that no1 plays him or is he really bad?