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Match-Up Discussion - Scorpion Scorpion Matchup Discussion Thread

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
Wait, so you can block a mileena teleport and input a forward dash immediately and if she sais the dash will go under her and you can full combo punish? ?? If that is what you are saying that is awesome! I will lab this after work.
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. He doesn't dash under her though. He just dashes though the air sai as if he's invincible.

I've also tested this with a few other characters to confirm. Reptile, Cage, Cassie, Jacqui, and Sub Zero all got hit by the Sai when I tried to dash. Scorpion & Kitana both were able to dash through it.
 

HuttonMD

ADM Riddles
I don't know if this is known, but Scorp's forward dash low profiles Mileena's Air Sai after a blocked Teleport. It works whether you block high or low.

You can also punish the recovery with 214 combo.

@Eddy Wang
@Matix218
Also you can teleport after a blocked tele-kick and the follow up sai will whiff and you can RC 21 for combo. I may not have got the perfect timing down on the sai but I got it pretty close to the ground and I could still teleport before it comes out
 

HuttonMD

ADM Riddles
Another weird thing I found is when playing shaolin is the shaolin player does string into upkick if he crosses over you and drops you can ex teleport and hit him. It's a weird timing and you have to reverse your inputs since he crosses over you. If they don't cross over and drop in front of you, you can't do this.

I made a video of it I'll have to look on my Xbox clips
 

Poser Paul

#1 Unbreakable
Another weird thing I found is when playing shaolin is the shaolin player does string into upkick if he crosses over you and drops you can ex teleport and hit him. It's a weird timing and you have to reverse your inputs since he crosses over you. If they don't cross over and drop in front of you, you can't do this.

I made a video of it I'll have to look on my Xbox clips
What about a regular teleport?
 

HuttonMD

ADM Riddles
What about a regular teleport?
I don't remember actually lol I made that a couple weeks ago and didn't mess with it since. I wanna say it missed because it didn't go far enough to actually hit kj but I'll re test when I get home to be sure

Edit: I am gonna test to be sure but I watched the video again and I think regular teleport will hit but I just wanted to show getting a combo but if it hits you can at least be +18
 

Poser Paul

#1 Unbreakable
I don't remember actually lol I made that a couple weeks ago and didn't mess with it since. I wanna say it missed because it didn't go far enough to actually hit kj but I'll re test when I get home to be sure

Edit: I am gonna test to be sure but I watched the video again and I think regular teleport will hit but I just wanted to show getting a combo but if it hits you can at least be +18
Great find regardless, good job man
 

TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
I'm not sure if it's just me but it appears Scorpion has a fairly small hitbox for a male but not quite a female hitbox as there's been many instances where Scorpion ducks non true mids and highs by just crouch blocking and the opponent whiffs completely when it shouldn't be the case. Can someone confirm this with me if this is a bug or what not
 

Jhonnykiller45

Shirai Ryu
I'm not sure if it's just me but it appears Scorpion has a fairly small hitbox for a male but not quite a female hitbox as there's been many instances where Scorpion ducks non true mids and highs by just crouch blocking and the opponent whiffs completely when it shouldn't be the case. Can someone confirm this with me if this is a bug or what not
Bug or not, it does happen sometimes, yeah.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. He doesn't dash under her though. He just dashes though the air sai as if he's invincible.

I've also tested this with a few other characters to confirm. Reptile, Cage, Cassie, Jacqui, and Sub Zero all got hit by the Sai when I tried to dash. Scorpion & Kitana both were able to dash through it.
Dude, I hadn't even had a chance to lab this yet and I went online and my first opponent was a random piercing mileena (I had not even practiced this yet) and the very first teleport I blocked I dashed before the sai and full combo punished her. This tech you found is freaking amazing. It means that Mileena can basically never safely teleport against scorpion. It was so hard dealing with teleporting mileenas because they can vary the sai timing to make it really tough to punish but now they can do it immediately or delay it and they are still eating a combo. Awesome find man. Major props!
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
Dude, I hadn't even had a chance to lab this yet and I went online and my first opponent was a random piercing mileena (I had not even practiced this yet) and the very first teleport I blocked I dashed before the sai and full combo punished her. This tech you found is freaking amazing. It means that Mileena can basically never safely teleport against scorpion. It was so hard dealing with teleporting mileenas because they can vary the sai timing to make it really tough to punish but now they can do it immediately or delay it and they are still eating a combo. Awesome find man. Major props!
Thanks bro! Can you make a video and a thread showing the examples I provided as well? I would appreciate that.

I still can't explain why this happens though. Scorpion, Kitana, and Kano can all use this tech. At first I thought it was the infamous female hitboxes, but obviously it's something different.
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
Thanks bro! Can you make a video and a thread showing the examples I provided as well? I would appreciate that.

I still can't explain why this happens though. Scorpion, Kitana, and Kano can all use this tech. At first I thought it was the infamous female hitboxes, but obviously it's something different.
Funny how I had to come to the Scorpion board to find tech for Kitana against Mileena. Thank you so much for sharing this! :)
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Thanks bro! Can you make a video and a thread showing the examples I provided as well? I would appreciate that.

I still can't explain why this happens though. Scorpion, Kitana, and Kano can all use this tech. At first I thought it was the infamous female hitboxes, but obviously it's something different.
Ill see if I have time to put a video together.

It must have something to do with the animation of their forward dash affecting their hit box because I assume all forward dashes have the same startup speed
 
Thanks bro! Can you make a video and a thread showing the examples I provided as well? I would appreciate that.

I still can't explain why this happens though. Scorpion, Kitana, and Kano can all use this tech. At first I thought it was the infamous female hitboxes, but obviously it's something different.
There are a lot of technical issues that I will omit here, but you can learn more about collision detection systems in video games through Internet searches.

MKX hitboxes/hurtboxes are not the same as the traditional hitbox you probably visualize. MKX hitboxes are 3D and mapped to character models in a particular way that gives character interactions a 3D feel as well.

Sometimes, certain animations will change a character model's onscreen state such that an active attack will whiff when it looks like it shouldn't. Sometimes this is intentional and NRS have modified the character model state or the hitbox of the attack so that it won't collide with a hitbox. And sometimes the fact that no collision is detected just flies under the radar, until someone finds it, just like now.

TL;DR - 3D hitboxes are cool but much more difficult to iron out all bugs for. This is likely not intentional, but is due to the state of the 3D hitbox during the dash animation.
 
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OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
There are a lot of technical issues that I will omit here, but you can learn more about collision detection systems in video games through Internet searches.

MKX hitboxes/hurtboxes are not the same as the traditional hitbox you probably visualize. MKX hitboxes are 3D and mapped to character models in a particular way that gives character interactions a 3D feel as well.

Sometimes, certain animations will change a character model's onscreen state such that an active attack will whiff when it looks like it shouldn't. Sometimes this is intentional and NRS have modified the character model state or the hurtbox of the attack so that it won't collide with a hitbox. And sometimes the fact that no collision is detected just flies under the radar, until someone finds it, just like now.

TL;DR - 3D hitboxes are cool but much more difficult to iron out all bugs for. This is likely not intentional, but is due to the state of the 3D hitbox during the dash animation.
Great info man!