What's new

Match-Up Discussion - Scorpion Scorpion Matchup Discussion Thread

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The usage of standing 1 is good not because of frame advantage, but because of fast animation the leaves you close to your opponent, so if you do whole 114 string or b121 string your opponent will know that you finished safe string (if they know scorpion at all), and will not try to punish you for it, but for standing 1 they may think you messed up your 21 input and try to punish you. But as i said i believe the best way to bait Ex reversal is by doing b3 fbc into block at some point of the block pressure.

As for changing patterns - i believe at some points you will HAVE TO change them. After a lot of practice, my opponents started to catch 4 in 214 and escaped more pressure that way + they gain a lot of distance, so i had to either let it happen, or try to predict when they will let go of block, and do something like 21 fbc into 214, or go for risky teleport after 214 to get another combo from their descision, that results in some sort of mind game, when both of you trying to predict what your opponent will do during the blockstring.
As for mixing up b3's and f2 (sometimes even f4) i believe you have to put a scare in your opponent of potential combo, besides of just doing blockstrings, they must fear that options and try to escape your pressure - giving you even more advantage at right reads. And i almost always have 3 bars of meter in hellfire because of the pressure tools it has + how much specials it uses during combos (i even cancel fireballs at full screen sometimes for additional meter). So you always have an option of going for safe EX-spear when you want to do a read, it's not risky and it can only give you more advantage if you can get into your opponent's head.
So for me the basic thing in this pressure is to swap your patterns a lot. Bait armored move once or twice and they will stop trying to do it all the time = you have opened an option for F4 -ex spear for yourself or throw. If they always block first b3 fbc i do a lot of f2's if i have 3 bars of meter, so they will have to think what you will do, either b3 or f2. Sometimes i even do something like b3 fbc into b3 ex spear, just to be very unpredictable and make them panic during blockstrings.


Yes, that's what i've come too eventually, i'm just a bit bothered by the fact that most characters with armored combo starter will have 30+ punish with right read, but i'm forced to get punished after good read. But i guess i'll just have to get less punishes and be more safe until tracking gets buffed (maybe never).
Haven't tried jump backs, but sounds like a good option, especially because you can do something like backjump into 3~Extele for good punish, i just feel like characters with really good advancing normals, also have huge hitbox that allows them to hit aerial targets and put you into very bad situation, so i'm usually trying to block their shit now instead of escaping it.
The fact that his teleport doesn't track only helps scorpion, so he get to run away without having to appear near everyone every time.
 
Greatly struggling with the cassie matchup. I only play Ninjutsu scorpion. Her insane leaping punch normal is faster and farther reach than my f2. On top of that she's got one of the fastest runs in the game along with her crazy mixups and resets. I just feel like she outfootsies me, and as Ninjutsu footsies is supposed to be my strength. MY STRENGTH not hers!!!

Any tips for fighting cassie?
Did you say leaping? There's you answer just beat her to it with a jumping kick canceled into a tele.
 

learis1

Guardian Cadet
Did you say leaping? There's you answer just beat her to it with a jumping kick canceled into a tele.
No, my terminology is ambiguous, my bad. I meant that she has this fast advancing far reaching command normal that I have trouble dealing with, but at least I can fight against her.

I'd say my worst matchup right now is GM Sub Zero, and specifically the players who rely solely on ice clone. I just can't figure out an effective strategy for dealing with it. But come to think of it, it's probably because I solely play Ninjutsu. I'm thinking that inferno scorpion is probably the best for dealing with GM Sub because his minion bypasses it. I might have to switch variations, but I just feel naked without my swords!
 

Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
Cassie is a pretty tough MU for hellfire scorpion. Her fjp can hit you out of FA without getting burned, and she can punish f2. Her b12 outranges everything scorpion has, as well as the advancing properties of that move can consistently evade a teleport. At -6, Scorpion can't really punish it at all, unless you count a just frame crouchjab.

He does have some ups, though. If you properly time a forward jump after a f2 or b4, she can't wakeup punish you, and even better, if she tries to do a flip, scorpion will be right above her and he can easily punish with fjp into combo. The only thing she can do to avoid the fjp is delayed wake, and scorpion is safe if she does that. If she blocks it then fjp into 214 is real blockstring and it would have been your combo starter anyway.

Her d/f1 isn't any more of a nuisance to scorpion than it is to anyone else, and it doesn't stuff armored wakeup slide or teleport so that's useful.
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
No, my terminology is ambiguous, my bad. I meant that she has this fast advancing far reaching command normal that I have trouble dealing with, but at least I can fight against her.

I'd say my worst matchup right now is GM Sub Zero, and specifically the players who rely solely on ice clone. I just can't figure out an effective strategy for dealing with it. But come to think of it, it's probably because I solely play Ninjutsu. I'm thinking that inferno scorpion is probably the best for dealing with GM Sub because his minion bypasses it. I might have to switch variations, but I just feel naked without my swords!
I know what you mean about feeling naked without the swords!

GM Subz is easier to beat using Inferno or Hellfire because they really don't have to respect the clone in the neutral game. Ninjitsu's space control gets flustered by the clone being on screen.

Some things to be aware of;

- Subz punishes F2 with slide from any distance.
- Clone throw is punished with TP or exTP
- Some of his clone cancels are punished with F2. I believe F4 xx Clone is the only one that's truly safe.
 
No, my terminology is ambiguous, my bad. I meant that she has this fast advancing far reaching command normal that I have trouble dealing with, but at least I can fight against her.

I'd say my worst matchup right now is GM Sub Zero, and specifically the players who rely solely on ice clone. I just can't figure out an effective strategy for dealing with it. But come to think of it, it's probably because I solely play Ninjutsu. I'm thinking that inferno scorpion is probably the best for dealing with GM Sub because his minion bypasses it. I might have to switch variations, but I just feel naked without my swords!
Yeah but you get high damage combos as a tradeoff as well as the most important factor in the sub match witch is zoning tools
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
Hellfire kicks the crap out of KL. He pretty much has every advantage, and KL has to take too many risks to get damage.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Post patch, some matches that were giving me a hard time using Ninjutsu are much more doable now.
Kung Jin, Kotal Kahn, Raiden are no longer a issue, haven't fought sub yet.

Feels great to play footsies and be rewarded by it, i'm also coming up with some cool ideas that i expect to share on a future video.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Feels like Ninjutsu bodies Sorcerer Quan. I feel like everything that Ninjutsu does is faster and has more range against Quan and is just super safe. When he gets knocked down in the corner the round is basically over, he really has no options against Scorp, especially Ninjutsu.
 

Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
What do you think of Liu Kang vs Ninjutsu.

His footsies and pressure are really damn good!
Logically, I'd have to say ninjutsu. Scorpion's teleport can punish fireballs on reaction, and ninjutsu's b2 outranges Kang's b2. f2 makes for good keepout as well, and Kang can't punish it at the tip range. But from my own experience, I've had more success with hellfire in this Matchup. Seems like hellfire is just a way better pressure fighter and the fact that you can shut down Kang's zoning just by teleporting as he does a fireball allows you to keep the spacing where you want it.
 

Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
Feels like Ninjutsu bodies Sorcerer Quan. I feel like everything that Ninjutsu does is faster and has more range against Quan and is just super safe. When he gets knocked down in the corner the round is basically over, he really has no options against Scorp, especially Ninjutsu.
Yeah that's a tough spot for Quan Chi, because ninjutsu's okizeme f2 stuffs everything Quan Chi has, across all variations. I don't know if Quan can block punish it, but if not, his only option might be to gamble on a delayed wake.

Not really relevant, but don't you think it's fitting that ninjutsu Scorpion dominates Quan Chi? Coz of story mode?
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Yeah that's a tough spot for Quan Chi, because ninjutsu's okizeme f2 stuffs everything Quan Chi has, across all variations. I don't know if Quan can block punish it, but if not, his only option might be to gamble on a delayed wake.

Not really relevant, but don't you think it's fitting that ninjutsu Scorpion dominates Quan Chi? Coz of story mode?
I was playing Macro the other day and it didn't feel like he could punish anything Scorpion has outside of the obvious. He pretty much had to win off of mixups which I guess is the gameplan anyways really.
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
Yeah that's a tough spot for Quan Chi, because ninjutsu's okizeme f2 stuffs everything Quan Chi has, across all variations. I don't know if Quan can block punish it, but if not, his only option might be to gamble on a delayed wake.

Not really relevant, but don't you think it's fitting that ninjutsu Scorpion dominates Quan Chi? Coz of story mode?
I just played a set online. If you don't know how to block his bat bullsh*t it can get stupid.

QC can't do anything about F2 unless you're out of stamina. His B2 is the only move fast enough with enough range, but scorpion can back dash it. Not to mention Scorpions oki destroys him
 

learis1

Guardian Cadet
So I'm losing badly to Kitana. She keeps up good defense so I can't open her up. I play solely ninjutsu. I feel like inferno might be the best variation here to neutralize her zoning. Anyone else having trouble with her?
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Premium Supporter
So I'm losing badly to Kitana. She keeps up good defense so I can't open her up. I play solely ninjutsu. I feel like inferno might be the best variation here to neutralize her zoning. Anyone else having trouble with her?
Stay grounded. Even though she isn't that good, her gimmick is massive air control. So don't jump anywhere on the screen until you get in footsie range. From there, you should win footsies, especially if you're using Ninjitsu. d4 is your best friend in this matchup.

Her jump attacks are horrible. Scorp can low profile her with d3 and d4 pretty easily, so if you weren't ready to AA, just avoid her with low-profiling. She has to get above you, do the floaty thing and then come down on your whiffed low poke just to get you to block.

Ultimately, she can't hurt you if you're just blocking low. (Outside of a 9% overhead or throw, which will take a lot to actually kill you.) She regulates the air which forces you to fight her on the ground. Luckily, her ground game is just so-so. Stay planted, and don't get too wily. She gets most of her damage by you trying to move too much and punishing blocked moves.
 
Last edited:

xKhaoTik

Kitana Kahn
Which variation do you think works best against kitana and which kitana variation do you guys fear the most?
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Which variation do you think works best against kitana and which kitana variation do you guys fear the most?
It's one of the few where Inferno is the optimal variation I'd say, Hellfire's pressure gets kinda gimped by Kitana's hitbox. After a teleport, most strings will whiff, he can run in and close the distance but then that won't be enough stamina for more than 1 FBRC. Inferno's reset on the other hand pretty much leaves him point blank, and can keep you in check with any string.

I'd personally be most worried about Mournful, I haven't played one but it seems like it would force you to play in a much more anticipatory manner, and Scorpion has dildos for armor so you could probably go ham with EX glaive blockstrings. It's also worth noting that Scorp can't punish the shadow kick on block.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I know what you mean about feeling naked without the swords!

GM Subz is easier to beat using Inferno or Hellfire because they really don't have to respect the clone in the neutral game. Ninjitsu's space control gets flustered by the clone being on screen.

Some things to be aware of;

- Subz punishes F2 with slide from any distance.
- Clone throw is punished with TP or exTP
- Some of his clone cancels are punished with F2. I believe F4 xx Clone is the only one that's truly safe.
Also subs back dash can escape scorpions b2 and f2 after a hit d4 which hurts ninjitsu a lot. I also feel hell fire is a better choice as well as inferno. I need to actually explore inferno more.
 
Hello. Which variation is the most favorable against Kotal Kahn? I play a lot against my friend.
He uses mid screens fast attacks and I can't really punish with Ninjitsu's B2. With hellfire I try to re-pressure but he uses D1 a lot and it's fast. :)
I used minions with inferno but I moved to hellfire instead.

I do not have a really good game plan against Kotal Kahn and that's my problem.
He uses his quite safe fast combos and I can't punish him very well (blocking that strings are going quite well but he immediately goes to D1 after a blockstring). And He is spamming D1 and always poke me out of everything I want to use (he is spamming D1 during I poke him with D1/D3 therefore when I want to throw he pokes me out lol - difficult mind game when to stop poking...). And his D1 is longer than mine so sometimes I dont reach him just with D4 and he is faster.

So sometimes I am a little bit out of ideas. And frustrating poked constantly out. Poking war is not my style at all. And it seems not Scorpion's either. :D

I can't use FRBC with hellfire tbh so that is missing from my game at all (and I do not think I am capable of doing it so maybe I should not force hellfire - but I like it anyway and Ninjutsu seems too difficult mind gamer with space control too).

In that circumstances I am waiting for your answers and tips. We are not professionals. :)
 
Last edited:

Xzyj

Noob
Any tips for KL (Tempest) Scorpion (Hellfire) matchup? having a lot of troubles with KL ji2 and corner pressure, can't space myself to hit him with d4, feels like his normals have priority ;x