Match-Up Discussion - Scorpion Scorpion Matchup Discussion Thread

[Matix218]

Hello. Which variation is the most favorable against Kotal Kahn? I play a lot against my friend.
He uses mid screens fast attacks and I can't really punish with Ninjitsu's B2. With hellfire I try to re-pressure but he uses D1 a lot and it's fast.
I used minions with inferno but I moved to hellfire instead.

I do not have a really good game plan against Kotal Kahn and that's my problem.
He uses his quite safe fast combos and I can't punish him very well (blocking that strings are going quite well but he immediately goes to D1 after a blockstring). And He is spamming D1 and always poke me out of everything I want to use (he is spamming D1 during I poke him with D1/D3 therefore when I want to throw he pokes me out lol - difficult mind game when to stop poking...). And his D1 is longer than mine so sometimes I dont reach him just with D4 and he is faster.

So sometimes I am a little bit out of ideas. And frustrating poked constantly out. Poking war is not my style at all. And it seems not Scorpion's either.

I can't use FRBC with hellfire tbh so that is missing from my game at all (and I do not think I am capable of doing it so maybe I should not force hellfire - but I like it anyway and Ninjutsu seems too difficult mind gamer with space control too).

In that circumstances I am waiting for your answers and tips. We are not professionals.

What kind of tv or monitor are you using? If you are using a laggy monitor maybe that is throwing of your fbrcs?

I don't have lightning fast perfect execution by any means but I can still do fbrc stuff fairly well so I would just make sure you have a good lagless monitor and practice more and I bet you will surprise yourself and end up being able to do fbrc stuff no prob

 

[TimTim]

Does anyone know where the most recent fbrc frame data is?

 

[Xzyj]

Does anyone know where the most recent fbrc frame data is?

http://testyourmight.com/threads/fireball-cancel-frame-data.52075/

 

[OutworldKeith]

Covert Ops Sonya:

-Reversal Takedown beats all Military Stance options except for MS xx 3. Eliminating the guessing game. Assuming B14 is blocked.

- After a blocked B1 you can Reversal Backdash to avoid dealing w/ Military Stance altogether.​

@Eddy Wang

 

[Eddy Wang]

Covert Ops Sonya:

-Reversal Takedown beats all Military Stance options options except for MS xx 3. Eliminating the guessing game. Assuming B14 is blocked.

- After a blocked B1 you can Reversal Backdash to avoid dealing w/ Military Stance altogether.​

@Eddy Wang

if you look for my FT10 using KL, you will see me doing this all together

 

[TyCarter35]

With all the changes to Scorpion received from the patches. How much better does he fare against the roster? How well does he do against the new dlc characters?

 

[HuttonMD]

Idk if this is known or not but I was messing around in lab and wanted to find some punishes for mileena tele-kick into sai and I found you can teleport before the sai cones out after blocking the kick and full combo off of it

 

[TyCarter35]

Idk if this is known or not but I was messing around in lab and wanted to find some punishes for mileena tele-kick into sai and I found you can teleport before the sai cones out after blocking the kick and full combo off of it

Yea done it a few times b4. I think d2 is also possible

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

With all the changes to Scorpion received from the patches. How much better does he fare against the roster? How well does he do against the new dlc characters?

Way better I think.
I'm fairly sure the MUs vs Leatherface and Bo' Rai Cho must be at the very least a 5-5 for Scorp, his mobility is just too good for them. Triborg and Alien, I have no idea but I like to think the Smoke MU is also decent for Scorp.

 

[TyCarter35]

Way better I think.
I'm fairly sure the MUs vs Leatherface and Bo' Rai Cho must be at the very least a 5-5 for Scorp, his mobility is just too good for them. Triborg and Alien, I have no idea but I like to think the Smoke MU is also decent for Scorp.

Imo Scorpion destroys most of the triborg variations in a 6-4 especially after 3/29. Alien is a hard 5-5 at least with ninjutsu as it comes down to who establishes the neutral first. I also think Ninjutsu is one of the few characters who can potentially have a winning Mu against mileena. But I struggle so much using ninjutsu against Kotal as his stuff is hard to punish. Anyone got advice for KK v Scorp mu?
@YOMI RM JagoBlake
@OutworldKeith
@Eddy Wang

 

[Eddy Wang]

Imo Scorpion destroys most of the triborg variations in a 6-4 especially after 3/29. Alien is a hard 5-5 at least with ninjutsu as it comes down to who establishes the neutral first. I also think Ninjutsu is one of the few characters who can potentially have a winning Mu against mileena. But I struggle so much using ninjutsu against Kotal as his stuff is hard to punish. Anyone got advice for KK v Scorp mu?
@YOMI RM JagoBlake
@OutworldKeith
@Eddy Wang

s3

 

[TyCarter35]

s3

As a punish tool or in general?

 

[Eddy Wang]

As a punish tool or in general?

Kotal has some wonky blockstuns on his punishable moves, scorpion indeed had problems to punish them with consistency, however since the XL lord paulo has blessed the Scorpion community with a 7f long range normal that can punish every single punishable move kotal does inside that range.

F2 is -11. s3 will punish
You can backdash war god's sword mixups out of his strings and B2 or F2 punish.

s3 is a long range move, that will practically keep anyone out, if before it was required to punish advancing strings or run ins with 214, 114 and F3, now you can s3 which reaches far and fastest than any of his previous normals, so those characters who use relentless tactics will have to deal with it, either on neutral, on block, as spacing tool or as a punishing tool.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Imo Scorpion destroys most of the triborg variations in a 6-4 especially after 3/29. Alien is a hard 5-5 at least with ninjutsu as it comes down to who establishes the neutral first. I also think Ninjutsu is one of the few characters who can potentially have a winning Mu against mileena. But I struggle so much using ninjutsu against Kotal as his stuff is hard to punish. Anyone got advice for KK v Scorp mu?
@YOMI RM JagoBlake
@OutworldKeith
@Eddy Wang

Eddy said it best bro. Although I would definitely use Ninjutsu against War God.

I don't think Mileena is as good as TYM is making her out to be. I picked her up before XL came out & she's literally had the same tools. Her zoning is a lot better though.

As far as DLC, I'm still in Iraq for another 2 months, so I don't get much practice time. I can only theory fight them lol.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I always used Ninjutsu against wargod and with good anticipation Ninjutsu can catch wargod.
Nowadays I tried hellfire against it and it was funny too. I replaced F2 with Flame Aura when I felt he was attacking and could catch him very well. Flame aura against his pressure is not that bad.
Btw against wargod's good armor moves Ninjutsu seems still superior .

Other KK variations are much easier for me especially with Ninjutsu. Lot of punish options without his sword mixup.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

I also think Ninjutsu is one of the few characters who can potentially have a winning Mu against mileena.

Scorpion (at least Ninjutsu) definitely does well vs. Mileena.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I always used Ninjutsu against wargod and with good anticipation Ninjutsu can catch wargod.
Nowadays I tried hellfire against it and it was funny too. I replaced F2 with Flame Aura when I felt he was attacking and could catch him very well. Flame aura against his pressure is not that bad.
Btw against wargod's good armor moves Ninjutsu seems still superior .

Other KK variations are much easier for me especially with Ninjutsu. Lot of punish options without his sword mixup.

Meaty F2, oki, and range is why I prefer NIN against WG.

Kotal's whiff punishment is good imo. I just feel totally outmatched in the neutral without my swords.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Scorpion (at least Ninjutsu) definitely does well vs. Mileena.

Does S3 punish TP xx Air Sai?

Can someone test that for me pls?

 

[TyCarter35]

Does S3 punish TP xx Air Sai?

Can someone test that for me pls?

Should be able to at least according to frame data. I usually d2 it to play it safe as Scorpion has a smaller hitbox in comparison to other males so air sai whiffs pending on timing if u crouch block. 7 frames is enough to punish I think

 

[OutworldKeith]

Should be able to at least according to frame data. I usually d2 it to play it safe as Scorpion has a smaller hitbox in comparison to other males so air sai whiffs pending on timing if u crouch block. 7 frames is enough to punish I think

As far as frame data yes but as you know frame data isn't the Be-all and End-all.

 

[TyCarter35]

As far as frame data yes but as you know frame data isn't the Be-all and End-all.

Agreed especially with landing frames etc taken into account. But honestly if d2, a move roughly 9 frames can punish consistently, don't see y a 7f that can combo (I think?) can't do the same

 

[OutworldKeith]

Agreed especially with landing frames etc taken into account. But honestly if d2, a move roughly 9 frames can punish consistently, don't see y a 7f that can combo (I think?) can't do the same

Naturally D2 is a high crush. Even though S3 is 7f it doesn't have that property.

 

[Matix218]

I think I tested that a while back, iirc if you go for s3~teleport punish on, teleport air sai the teleport whiffs on mileena.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I don't know if this is known, but Scorp's forward dash low profiles Mileena's Air Sai after a blocked Teleport. It works whether you block high or low.

You can also punish the recovery with 214 combo.

@Eddy Wang
@Matix218

 

[Matix218]

I don't know if this is known, but Scorp's forward dash low profiles Mileena's Air Sai after a blocked Teleport. It works whether you block high or low.

You can also punish the recovery with 214 combo.

@Eddy Wang
@Matix218

Wait, so you can block a mileena teleport and input a forward dash immediately and if she sais the dash will go under her and you can full combo punish? ?? If that is what you are saying that is awesome! I will lab this after work.