Guide - A-List Run Cancel Frame Data

[Asodimazze]

lol what are you even saying? Most of this nonsense isn't even true

What exactly?

 

[rafaw]

@GGA Dizzy, can you test how much the startup of lvl2 shadow flip is? could be a good frame trap after f3rcf3rcf3xxlvl2flipkick, its safe on block too.

 

[Derptile]

11 and 12 start high

WHY WOULD YOU BLOCK LOW AGAINST CAGE

Play with a Cage that plays like a complete asshole and you will want to cry, he will essentially force you to block high and eat chip for days.

Also IDK what that guy is on about, I've played with both of them and they both have pretty garbo Jump attacks. No real point in comparing who has better one since you shouldn't be jumping with either character.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

WHY WOULD YOU BLOCK LOW AGAINST CAGE

Play with a Cage that plays like a complete asshole and you will want to cry, he will essentially force you to block high and eat chip for days.

Also IDK what that guy is on about, I've played with both of them and they both have pretty garbo Jump attacks. No real point in comparing who has better one since you shouldn't be jumping with either character.

Yeah and ive played good cages dw you can armour after forceballs you gotta remember that.

 

[Dizzy]

@GGA Dizzy, can you test how much the startup of lvl2 shadow flip is? could be a good frame trap after f3rcf3rcf3xxlvl2flipkick, its safe on block too.

I'll see about getting around to it, but why level 2 specifically? Only because it's safe?

 

[Dizzy]

As much as I enjoy reading about people downplaying their characters and debating who is worse, please stop shitting in the frame data thread. Scientists are attempting to work in here.

 

[SylverRye]

As much as I enjoy reading about people downplaying their characters and debating who is worse, please stop shitting in the frame data thread. Scientists are attempting to work in here.

Explaining isn't down playing though. Its just like you stepping into a raiden thread and seeing someone explain something to another person and they have no clue they were saying. But as ive said, not trying to derail the thread. Carry on guys

 

[rafaw]

I'll see about getting around to it, but why level 2 specifically? Only because it's safe?

Bc its safe, comboable and out of my mind it might "Click" frames with the F3skrc, i mean f3rc~f3skrc into lvl2 FlipKick. hard tho!

 

[DrManhattan]

so... you guys see what im talking about yet? http://testyourmight.com/threads/loopable-pressure-discussion.54999/

the ONLY reason kang is not as good is because his normals are not as good...

 

[Dizzy]

12 string can cleanly break 11f startup armor if perfectly timed in neutral. If the opponent is performing a reversal out of block or performing a wakeup attack, it can cleanly break 12f armor at best.

There is possibly a few example of the opponents armor move not applying to this rule, if they crouch down during the animation at some point causing attacks to whiff for example. So be sure to test it yourself, if you are curious about a specific armor move.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

so... you guys see what im talking about yet? http://testyourmight.com/threads/loopable-pressure-discussion.54999/

the ONLY reason kang is not as good is because his normals are not as good...

Stop derailing this thread to promote yours. Stay on topic. I don't know why the hell Liu Kang is being discussed in Cage's frame data thread, but take it somewhere else.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

so... you guys see what im talking about yet? http://testyourmight.com/threads/loopable-pressure-discussion.54999/

the ONLY reason kang is not as good is because his normals are not as good...

stahp i dont wanna derail this anymore than i have already but boyyyyyy if youre talking about johnny being better than kang and trying to promote your thread thats already been done 100 times just stahhhhp

 

[brizzle]

1) Cage has frame advantage off normals without SKRCs

2) Cage has an Armored launcher

3) Cage has a much better neutral game thanks to F3 SKRC

4) Cage can end every combo with nutpunch and continue his pressure game.

5) Against Liu Kang you block low and you're safe from most of his options. Against Cage you block low and you'll get opened up by f2, block high and he gets to assault you with his SKRCs to the fullest.

6) Liu Kang has plenty of whiff problems

7)Both characters have absolutely garbage Air attacks due to their ground game being so strong.

I'm not saying A-list Cage is better than Dragon's Fire Liu Kang because he isn't, but A-List has plenty of his own strengths which make him a great character.

Dragon's Fire Roo Kang= S tier
A-List Cage= A+ tier

Re standing after combos is all I need to pick johnny over lui. Anti wakeup game is huge. What do most Kung Laos do when they can't wake up spin? They lose

EDIT just saw people were not wanting the thread to talk about cage vs kang, my bad

 

[Derptile]

Stop derailing this thread to promote yours. Stay on topic. I don't know why the hell Liu Kang is being discussed in Cage's frame data thread, but take it somewhere else.

Can't you move the posts to the Johnny Cage general discussion thread? You are a mod after all.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Can't you move the posts to the Johnny Cage general discussion thread? You are a mod after all.

They've all been moved, now lets get this thread back on topic.

 

[zaccbarias]

anyone tested how (+) d4 skrc is on block? thanks!

 

[Hawfy]

anyone tested how (+) d4 skrc is on block? thanks!

+6

 

[Dizzy]

Ok, I think this is all the testing I'll do in regards to armor breaking properties of strings. Here is the final info:

This is for a clean armor break (no trade) when done absolutely perfectly, meaning the first hit of the string connects immediately when start up ends:

12 = breaks 11f armored specials
11 = breaks 14f armored specials
f24 = breaks 20f armored specials

+1 frame for reversals

@smokey

 

[rafaw]

So, now im just using the skrc on the moment it should come out and not dialing it like i used to do, its way easier to get almost perfect cancels.

Saturday i just tested this after np: 114skrc~B34skrc/B343~f24/d4
The mixup is: After 114skrc go for B343 or B34skrc D4/f24, if you do it right they have to block it all and guess right or get hit, mix some throws as you allways should. Once you get it consistently they will respect the B34 and fear the possible overhead of B343, thats the mix up bc after you skrc B34 you almost allways get a free D4 or 11/12. If they are blocking low after the B34skrc you can B343 or B34skrc~F2, you change the timing of the overhead and its all guaranted.

 

[Death]

Are you sure after F2SKRC is +15? I have a hard time hitting 11 after it? Seems really tight

 

[kelevra]

Are you sure after F2SKRC is +15? I have a hard time hitting 11 after it? Seems really tight

Do you mean to combo on hit or to have it jail on block?

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

Are you sure after F2SKRC is +15? I have a hard time hitting 11 after it? Seems really tight

yeh f2 into f2 on block jails . deffo plus 15

 

[Death]

Do you mean to combo on hit or to have it jail on block?

Jail on block. Trying it out but seems very tight vs Cassies EX flip kick. Shouldnt I have at least a 5f window?

 

[kelevra]

Jail on block. Trying it out but seems very tight vs Cassies EX flip kick. Shouldnt I have at least a 5f window?

Sounds stupid but 5f aint that much considering how many inputs you have to get out in that time.
It sure does jail i can ensure you that, just take practice.

 

[Death]

Sounds stupid but 5f aint that much considering how many inputs you have to get out in that time.
It sure does jail i can ensure you that, just take practice.

True. It is my first day trying them lol. But seems extremely tight. Dont know how people will get the F2 to jail like xara said. I feel like standing 1 hit box isnt that great and whiffs a lot.