Return Aquaman's from the deep to injustice 1's

[Meep8345]

I don't think he'll get any buffs or anything. Aquaman is way too disliked to get a buff even if he needs it.

 

[Jelan]

I don't think he'll get any buffs or anything. Aquaman is way too disliked to get a buff even if he needs it.

The said truth has been said.

Character has some of the worst combo-game due to inconsistencies and the ridiculousness of it is not even offset with high damage as it's pretty sub-par. Less damage on chip with TR and less meter building means even that aspect does not make up for the lack of damage and consistency on his combos.

 

[ForeverKlone]

IMO, post-patch aquafina is even more braindead than he was before since you don't have to hit confirm into anything.
His scoop does nearly 50 extra damage during a juggle. Like even supergirl could hit harder than him. Hit confirming is tougher than ever, and itsn't worst the risk.
My suggestion is to reduce both gravity and recovery on his scoop, or hell make it meterless i don't care lol. A little bit of damage scaling is required if that happens, since he can then actually converts off stuffs

 

[Dogeofthesea]

He still does monster damage with background bounce, and he has good strings to hit confirm into bgb
And F132 leads to decent damage in the corner

 

[thlityoursloat]

He still does monster damage with background bounce, and he has good strings to hit confirm into bgb
And F132 leads to decent damage in the corner

elaborate on f132? i know it launched in inj1 but it doesn’t seem tonin this game. only f13 works.

 

[Dogeofthesea]

elaborate on f132? i know it launched in inj1 but it doesn’t seem tonin this game. only f13 works.

Easy version: F132, d1 trident rush
Harder version: F132, d1, d2, f2 throw forward
Just go to the lab, time the d1 after F132 is not hard, the hard part is the d2 after it.
I actually saw the AI did that combo, I was so shocked that Aquaman almost became my new main

 

[Basic Stupidity]

am i the only one that thinks aquaman is fine?

 

[Invincible Salads]

He still does monster damage with background bounce, and he has good strings to hit confirm into bgb
And F132 leads to decent damage in the corner

saying a characters damage is ok because BGB is no bargain. aquaman really does need some love

 

[Invincible Salads]

am i the only one that thinks aquaman is fine?

yes

 

[Error]

Easy version: F132, d1 trident rush
Harder version: F132, d1, d2, f2 throw forward
Just go to the lab, time the d1 after F132 is not hard, the hard part is the d2 after it.
I actually saw the AI did that combo, I was so shocked that Aquaman almost became my new main

F13 1 1 b123xxtrident toss should do more and isn't terribly difficult.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

yes

well atleast ive got the balance patches on my side.

 

[John Grizzly]

Only change he needs is for MB scoop to launch higher, allowing a much easier B3 to connect. Having a low damage BnB that is ALSO super inconsistent to hit is fucking stupid. Just make MB scoop launch high enough where it no longer requires a D2 (which scales the damage even more) and you can just connect the B3 or F3 off it raw.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Aquaman is fine. I don’t think Aquaman is suitable as a solo main, but he’s meant to be utility now imo. He loses over 10 matchups and he doesn’t really have any sort of major cheese to fight those characters. But he’s not really meant to be used against those characters. Once I started maining Sub-Zero and put Aquaman on the side, I began feeling much better about him, because I now only use him where he does well. But if Aquaman is gonna be usable as a solo main and not only as a counter pick character he needs something.

 

[ForeverKlone]

Stop saying he's fine. No he's not. Though he still has some great toolsets including long range normals, great poke & aa, good trait, but his damage is so crappy, maybe even worse than prepatch supergirl. Not to mention how inconsistent his conversions are. He is in desperate need of some love for him to be at least viable and more people will starts playing him again.
All this debate because of that dumb patch. We need to balance the character not killing it

 

[Jelan]

Stop saying he's fine. No he's not. Thoufh he has some great toolsets including long range normals, great poke & aa, good trait, but his damage is so crappy, maybe even worse than prepatch supergirl. Not to mention how inconsistent his conversions are. He is in desperate need of some love for him to be at least viable and more people will starts playing him again.
All this debate because of that dumb patch. We need to balance the character not killing it

Same goes for Deadshot. Killing characters is no answer to balancing.

 

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

Aquaman sucks

 

[Briggs8417]

Poor Aquaman...he deserves better.

 

[Skedar70]

Deadshot was overnerfed but aquaman is completely fine.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Deadshot was overnerfed but aquaman is completely fine.

Deadshot and Aquaman likely have the same amount of losing matchups

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I have Aquaman as losing to
Atrocitus
Black Adam
Catwoman
Fate
Firestorm
Joker
Ivy
Red Hood
Starfire
Superman
Swamp Thing
Wonder Woman

I’ll explain any of these if you ask, I won’t be on TYM for 4 days though

 

[jcbowie]

Aquaman isn't a character whose strength comes from combos, he gets his great damage from incidental stray hits because his defense is his defining characteristic. Hard stray hits, his tracking special, his great footsie tools (especially his quick, long-range lows), and his fantastic trait make him one of if not *the* strongest defensive characters in the game. He doesn't need buffs, you just can't play him as a plus frame rushdown monster anymore, you have to play him defensively as he was intended to be played. Now he just has one strength, and that makes sense. He still gets 300+ on mb scoop combos, which is great for a character like him. Play him defensively and baity, rely on whiff punishing and not an aggressive mix.

Yeah I would really like for those changes to happen. It hurts when I see Batman meterless hits harder then Aquaman with meter

I agree with this though, I stand by the fact that Batman's spot in the meta is based around his absurdly good neutral and the fact that he has such stupid meterless damage is dumb. There's a few characters like him that give me worry. I'm telling you, this game will become a 50/50fest before you can even blink...

 

[Jelan]

Aquaman isn't a character whose strength comes from combos, he gets his great damage from incidental stray hits because his defense is his defining characteristic. Hard stray hits, his tracking special, his great footsie tools (especially his quick, long-range lows), and his fantastic trait make him one of if not *the* strongest defensive characters in the game. He doesn't need buffs, you just can't play him as a plus frame rushdown monster anymore, you have to play him defensively as he was intended to be played. Now he just has one strength, and that makes sense. He still gets 300+ on mb scoop combos, which is great for a character like him. Play him defensively and baity, rely on whiff punishing and not an aggressive mix.



I agree with this though, I stand by the fact that Batman's spot in the meta is based around his absurdly good neutral and the fact that he has such stupid meterless damage is dumb. There's a few characters like him that give me worry. I'm telling you, this game will become a 50/50fest before you can even blink...

What you say about AM make sense in isolation, however. He is out turtled by most other defense characters: DF definitely but even SF and FS. I agree that he doesn't need to be a combo monster, but what he has as of now is inconsistent and unreliable and his hitconfirm game went from a 'toddler could do it for insane reward' to 'why bother'. His stray hit damage usually can't keep up with others either. That is the only reason he looses against BA, you get hit once with a stray conversion and the last ~40 seconds of the match are negated.

The only matchups he wins are the likes of Flash and BC and even then, once they get in they can 50/50 you into oblivion like they can any other character and no more than 5.5-4.5 in his favor. The trait protects you maybe once in their vortex loop, but the round ends before it recharges. Not to mention the tracking move you mentioned being ridiculously minus, for no reason anymore as it's not a launcher, and BC can full combo punish from full screen with her lvl3 or Flash can rms punish you from half screen. I've heard people say he beats GA and BatM but it's not more in his favour than the above 2 and he still gets owned by at least 10 characters really hard.

So yea, if you look at just him he is fine. If you look at the whole roster he is borderline useless. I still play him because I like the character, but if it wasn't for that I'd have dropped him already. He was relegated into 'mild utility' after the patch. He doesn't even hard counter any characters making him even more obsolete than CC who probably has more tourney representation than AM after getting nuked.

 

[jcbowie]

What you say about AM make sense in isolation, however. He is out turtled by most other defense characters: DF definitely but even SF and FS. I agree that he doesn't need to be a combo monster, but what he has as of now is inconsistent and unreliable and his hitconfirm game went from a 'toddler could do it for insane reward' to 'why bother'. His stray hit damage usually can't keep up with others either. That is the only reason he looses against BA, you get hit once with a stray conversion and the last ~40 seconds of the match are negated.

The only matchups he wins are the likes of Flash and BC and even then, once they get in they can 50/50 you into oblivion like they can any other character and no more than 5.5-4.5 in his favor. The trait protects you maybe once in their vortex loop, but the round ends before it recharges. Not to mention the tracking move you mentioned being ridiculously minus, for no reason anymore as it's not a launcher, and BC can full combo punish from full screen with her lvl3 or Flash can rms punish you from half screen. I've heard people say he beats GA and BatM but it's not more in his favour than the above 2 and he still gets owned by at least 10 characters really hard.

So yea, if you look at just him he is fine. If you look at the whole roster he is borderline useless. I still play him because I like the character, but if it wasn't for that I'd have dropped him already. He was relegated into 'mild utility' after the patch. He doesn't even hard counter any characters making him even more obsolete than CC who probably has more tourney representation than AM after getting nuked.

I dunno if he's "useless." His keepout game is pretty strong, his aerials are good, his footsies are great. I agree that he doesn't outright win a lot of matchups: Flash, BC, Bane, GL imo, probably Grodd and Joker, and I personally do think he at least slightly beats Batman (which is my favorite thing about him). I find the Darkseid matchup to be rough against him, but maybe there's just something I'm missing. These are the only ones that I would explicitly give the matchup edge to AM in.

Do you think he loses a lot of matchups outright though? Like hard zoners definitely, I agree he loses to Fate and probably Harley now too, BA and FS because of their damage outputs and good punishes, Superman/girl probably. Any other *egregiously* skewed matchups? I dunno, Hood could be argued maybe because of his space control and zoning, dunno enough about Hellboy but maybe him too? Atro?

It feels like he 5-5's more characters than he beats or loses to. Sub (better fullscreen control, better footsies, less damage), Arrow (equal or better damage, better footsies, loses zoning), Ivy (slightly better tracking move, slightly less damage, equal or better footsies), Brainiac (react punish to trait fullscreen, gets outfootsied slightly but with the damage nerf not a big deal), Deadshot post nerf (nuff said), Catwoman, WW, Borg, Cheetah, Robin... I dunno, I don't think he's useless. I just see his toolset as one that lends itself more to generating even matchups in this meta and I don't think that's necessarily a problem. Maybe some characters have gimmicks to get over but nothing Aquaman lacks the tools to get around.

 

[Error]

@Jelan @jcbowie Aquaman is still Harley's worst or one of her worst match ups according to the ones I've asked.

Poison Ivy feels like his worst for me.

 

[Jelan]

I dunno if he's "useless." His keepout game is pretty strong, his aerials are good, his footsies are great. I agree that he doesn't outright win a lot of matchups: Flash, BC, Bane, GL imo, probably Grodd and Joker, and I personally do think he at least slightly beats Batman (which is my favorite thing about him). I find the Darkseid matchup to be rough against him, but maybe there's just something I'm missing. These are the only ones that I would explicitly give the matchup edge to AM in.

Do you think he loses a lot of matchups outright though? Like hard zoners definitely, I agree he loses to Fate and probably Harley now too, BA and FS because of their damage outputs and good punishes, Superman/girl probably. Any other *egregiously* skewed matchups? I dunno, Hood could be argued maybe because of his space control and zoning, dunno enough about Hellboy but maybe him too? Atro?

It feels like he 5-5's more characters than he beats or loses to. Sub (better fullscreen control, better footsies, less damage), Arrow (equal or better damage, better footsies, loses zoning), Ivy (slightly better tracking move, slightly less damage, equal or better footsies), Brainiac (react punish to trait fullscreen, gets outfootsied slightly but with the damage nerf not a big deal), Deadshot post nerf (nuff said), Catwoman, WW, Borg, Cheetah, Robin... I dunno, I don't think he's useless. I just see his toolset as one that lends itself more to generating even matchups in this meta and I don't think that's necessarily a problem. Maybe some characters have gimmicks to get over but nothing Aquaman lacks the tools to get around.

I think AM if not outright looses to every character that can punish his FtD from 3/4 of the screen at least he is severely limited. Swamp Thing for example wins the mu easy: they both have reach but he is outdamaged and the clone call can punish FtD from anywhere this shutting down one of the most important tools. Manta also beats him and a big reason is his shark attack being a really punish to FTD. Superman and girl are also loosing matchups, their space control is superior and have better options up close. RH can negate trait with insta launching bomb-setups and such. And yea, Ivy has been a bad my since launch and during that time AM was admittedly overpowered.

He is in this weird space right now, he is a defensive character that has to be aggressive to other defense style characters but lacks the tools to do so and rendering him useless by default in those matchups. He does fine against rush heavier characters yes but only if they don't have an answer to FTD, which they often do.

Worst part is he could be pretty potent with slight changes but he'll never get them because of the used to be OP stigma and 'boring' playstyle so meh, whatever really.

@Error Haven't really heard that, after patch I don't really see how it could be much worse than 5-5. I would be glad if a HQ player could explain.