Breakthrough Rethinking Jade. Have we been playing her wrong?

[GambitTheFirst]

TakeAChance Good stuff there with the low poke reset thing, except it's not really Jade specific: any character that can do a juggle pop-up can hit the falling opponent with a low and reset them into standing.

Actually it is Jade specific. It's the way b2 hits them that makes them fall and do the "pushup" (as Prinzmetal pointed out to me lol!). I'm sure there might be someone else in the game who might hit them in this way, but it's defintely not everyone and I can't think of any other moves like this off the top of my head.

True resets guarantee the larger payout usually.

True resets shouldn't guarantee anything other than you know, the fact that they're reset and vunerable to your next mixup. You seem to have had your definition of a fg "reset" muddled up by the inescapeable bullshit in this game, which I prefer to think of as "damage exploits" as coined by some other people. A reset doesn't make guarantee a combo, just gives you a chance to start a new one. Yeah Scorpion's is better because it's literally a 50/50 (surely it's a reset TaC, wouldn't the definition of vortex be a reset that you can keep putting them back in everytime they make a wrong guess?), but we're Jade players, we deal with what we've got and this is still worthwhile using even if we don't get 50/50s (a low starter would be great though NRS ye bastids!)

This is definitely something I think all Jade players should be incorporating into their game. However I'm concerned that there isn't really much you're going to get out of it if people know what to expect from her. If you go for reset into overhead, why would they be blocking low against her anyway? The most they'd eat is an ex low rang. Which would be okay except I'm not even sure those lock them down long enough even for a jump in block string for meter and a bit of chip?

Obviously this TAC reset is something that isn't meant to happen. But to be frank, it will be the last straw and I will drop this game (not that I'm really playing it atm lol, but I care enough to post on this forum!) if they take this away from her. It doesn't lead to stupid situations like Smoke or Cyrax's so it's no biggy. Just a cool and quirky thing that's actually really good for her game.

 

[TakeAChance]

The difference between a vortex and a reset is this: Resets reset both opponents back into a neutral position after a combo. Vortex's keep opponents vulnerable unless they guess correctly. Vortex > Reset.

I have found a ton of uses for the the TAC reset. The mind games alone from buffering from a d4/d3 usually leads into the ability to do more chip damage by mixing it up with a blockstring/EX boomerang string. Not to mention throws. It gives Jade a situation up close where she is in control.

I don't expect everyone to universally use it, I just know I am. It is a big part of my game and I am working on ways to improve it. Since posting this post I have actually found a more damaging mid screen option which more than secures the fact that we should use it.

 

[Prinz]

People confuse the terms. Resets like Jade's, Cage's, Kenshi's, Sonya's, Baraka's, Kabal's, Stryker's set the opponent in a state where he is able to only block any incoming attack, which means he is reset in the "under the pressure" situation. Cyrax's, Smoke's and Jax's "resets" are really unblocable follow-ups with an additional damage scaling reset.

 

[zaf]

can someone tell me how to place someone in that state to d3 reset them?

i got it down with ermac in the corner. ( b2b1 d3 ). does he have a mid screen one ?

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[JustObserver]

can someone tell me how to place someone in that state to d3 reset them?

You need to hit by any attack at the very last moment before your opponent hits the ground after your b2.

 

[Thead]

TakeAChance

I'm still not seeing the greater picture here with this B2 reset midscreen. Why would you drop 50% damage to negate a wakeup attack and choose the next move (as in pseudo pressure or space out), where you can finish the full combo in either Staff Grab for great spacing or Shadow Kicks for great corner push?

I'll admit, using it sparingly on AA B2 or naked B2 has worked ok for me, even catching people in a combo who aren't aware of it, and I actually like the setups it can pull of her smaller strings in the corner (23f2 etc). But I'm not sure about focusing midscreen gameplay around it.

As more people play against Jade and learn how to escape her shennanigans, I can't see how dropping that amount of damage to MAYBE get a blockstring out is worth it.

Using D3 to reset seems like a waste to me unless you catch them by surprise in the corner, as after you connect D3, all the opponent has to do is neutral crouch; Jades moves will whiff/be interuppted by D1. Of course you can go into a low poking game, or D3~Staff Grab (which can still be interuppted but very strict), but why when you can get guaranteed greater damage.

The midscreen D3 reset (Overheard, 12, B2, D3) looks like it gives excellent spacing for B32 however. Its a shame this string can be poked/jumped out during tho.

Don't mean to sound like I'm pissing on your parade, just adding my thoughts to the discussion.

Also D1 can reset in the corner:

(Ending in Shadow Kick is not most damaging nor best setup)


I fully agree with you about her spacing and AA. Jade controls space from jump in range so well, it's actually quite worrying for the opponent to be around that distance against Jade. I'll add for others that along with 1 and B2 (space dependant as you state), D1 makes a very good AA and Anti Crossover tool, it has a very good hitbox, just like standing 1.

Personally I feel the route people should be taking with Jade is to keep people at poles length, consistently take chunks of life with long range moves, hitting as hard as she can whenever the opportunity arises. B32 has very good range and can be followed with Shadow Kick dash 4~Staff Grab.

Once you keep people at poles length, dashing in becomes unexpected. 12 is quick upclose and can be followed with Shadow Kick dash D1~Staff Grab. (Not that I'm wholly advising this, dashing in should be used very sparingly or else you're giving your opponent better options)

Keeping people away also makes it a shit tonne more likely they'll attack when they DO get in, meaning Glow punish, which then in turn makes them scared about getting in and attacking.

Tidbit: D3 is Jades absolute best friend from my experience.

 

[TakeAChance]

Thead

I stated in my post that if you ever get the b1 off midscreen (as a punish) to always take the damage. Jade, aside from glow, has a terrible time when she is knocked down. Removing the option to get plastered in the fact on an opponents wakeup and dictate the pace of the match is something I rather enjoy. There are many different playstyles, and I have played your Jade. I like to go for the reset, but other times I will take the damage depending on where the life bars are currently standing. Sometimes I will go into an up rang or down rang and build the meter almost entirely back and have the opponent eat the chip. Aside from 1,2 and d3/d4 Jades up close pressure game is pretty basic. Most of her strings are slow, and some are able to be jumped. The point of my post was to think of different ways to encorporate the reset without sacrificing as much damage. I have found a way to do a midscreen reset that still does 20% damage (10 less then the 30 you get from a overhead) but with the potential to throw or even get a block string off, the damage differential becomes almost nothing. I like owning the pace of the match, which is why I like the reset. I can understand if some don't, but I incorporate my game around it.

 

[Thead]

TakeAChance

I completely understand where you're coming from, but say for instance, someone used the B2 resets against you, would they work? Knowing what Jade is capable of. Of course they would stand you up and stop your wakeup, but then what could they do to you? If you crouch, you negate most of her options, throw will whiff, 1 will whiff. You could lock them with Ex Rangs, but the usual follow up string (23f2) can be jumped out of, and even punished with a 6frame move.

No wake up in the game matters after Staff Grab/Shadow Kicks, they are too far away to do anything to you, and you have all that space between you to control with your stick again. Plus there are safe setups with Ex Rangs if you're willing to burn a bar.

A terrible time when knocked down? :O I think she gets it fairly easy due to her standard Flash, move is a godsend.

The point I'm trying to push is, well more question I'm trying to ask, is do you think the B2 reset will be worth it once people have Jade figured out?

 

[Past]

While its good to see you re-explore the b2 reset, I still believe that it isn't legit. Aside from throwing away damage that other characters don't (Cage), your opponent needs to have a brain fart to fall for these setups (asking your opponent to fall for a d3~ex overhead is quite a lot). In such cases, I think shadow kick is a better option to reset since you can combo off of it if the opponent decides not to block.

 

[TakeAChance]

TakeAChance

I completely understand where you're coming from, but say for instance, someone used the B2 resets against you, would they work? Knowing what Jade is capable of. Of course they would stand you up and stop your wakeup, but then what could they do to you? If you crouch, you negate most of her options, throw will whiff, 1 will whiff. You could lock them with Ex Rangs, but the usual follow up string (23f2) can be jumped out of, and even punished with a 6frame move.

No wake up in the game matters after Staff Grab/Shadow Kicks, they are too far away to do anything to you, and you have all that space between you to control with your stick again. Plus there are safe setups with Ex Rangs if you're willing to burn a bar.

A terrible time when knocked down? :O I think she gets it fairly easy due to her standard Flash, move is a godsend.

The point I'm trying to push is, well more question I'm trying to ask, is do you think the B2 reset will be worth it once people have Jade figured out?

That remains to be seen. As of right now, it's working fine for me.

 

[Prinz]

Here's a better use of the reset in the corner. As all already know, b32 is not only one of Jade's best strings, it is actually a pressure tool from mid-range. When I play, I throw the opponent in the corner pretty often using this string. So instead of finishing the string with the max damage (26% is most I can get with b32, 12, 12, 342 for maximum advantage and opponent still in the corner), you can go with b32, 12, b2, 3 reset for approx. 22% guaranteed (which is 4% less than maximum, a good trade I say) + wake-up negation + opportunities for more damage/setups etc. speculated in TAC's videos. I haven't applied this in real match, but it seems like a pretty good option considering a throw is almost guaranteed. Oh, yeah, this applies only when 2 of the b32 hits. Pretty good I say.
Oh, yeah #2. You are at pretty major advantage if you whiff the reset. So I think it's a really good trade.

Edit: if the opponent gets reset with 3, d1 will hit if the opponent tries anything (tested on Kitana's d1).

 

[TakeAChance]

Check the 2nd last video. It is a VERY useful tool

 

[Prinz]

I did, I did.

 

[Harry Otter]

I'd like to have some Jade sessions with you sometime Take.

 

[bloodsport]

I wouldn't call it a "reset" because unlike Scorpion's or Smoke's resets this does not guarantee a combo, only increases the chance thereof.

can't you use ex slam to make the b2 reset guaranteed?

 

[CompletelyJaded]

Nope.

 

[RTM2004]

Jade is much better offline than using her online, I will say that - only her damage output is what holds her back.

I should be getting on PS3 to have some Jade sessions with Krayzie Bone despite that I retired MK. He is taking Jade to the tournament major coming up later this month, his goal is to land Jade in Top 8 and to win (Use Cyrax as your back up, Krayzie). After watching him play Jade, he is mastering her footsie game up close. easy fresh's Jade has the best spacing and control the pace of the match but he really needs to use Ex Glow when they get in, not once did I see him use it because he conserves his meter basically only on Breakers. I will say that Jade's D1, D3, Pole Cat, Ex Glow, Grab are her best tools up close. Controlling the pace of the match like easy fresh does, he makes them respect her Up3, Shadow Kick, B2,3 and B2. If these two players pair up and practice MUs for experience, it's very possible Jade can land success at an offline major.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

All said and done, if anybody can train her up to take the crown, it's Krayzie Sensei.

 

[Espio]

Nightwolf got in top 8 at a a major, it's Jade's turn next. Hopefully Kano, Sheeva, and Stryker will follow shortly after that.

I hope Krayzie does take Jade to an upcoming event, she's too entertaining to watch and I love high level Jade,which is very rare indeed.

I remember playing Easy Fresh some months ago, he has such amazing fundamentals, he made me realize how bad mine were lol.

 

[josh99]

nice reset. Its so stupid when people use the term footsies in this game.

 

[THTB]

nice reset. Its so stupid when people use the term footsies in this game.

Why is it stupid? Footsies are a part of the game. If you don't have good footsies, you aren't winning in this game.

 

[josh99]

lol only certain characters in this game have footsies. I have never seen a wiff punish I this game ever. So footsies are clicking down 4 repeatedly

 

[salvificblood]

lol only certain characters in this game have footsies. I have never seen a wiff punish I this game ever. So footsies are clicking down 4 repeatedly

Lol, you play with the wrong people, then, or you have a blindfold on while watching them play. I play with people who whiff punish everything.

 

[josh99]

footsies set you up for a whiff punish but that doesnt matter in this game because they have frame adavantage on block and hit.

 

[THTB]

If you aren't seeing whiff punishes you aren't playing or watching the right people.