What's new

Breakthrough Rethinking Jade. Have we been playing her wrong?

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening denizens of Test Your Might. It has been a while since I revealed any Jade tech, and quite honestly the reason why is because A) I was holding out on being able to use it at a tournament, and B) I am now doing my practice teaching.

Well, a lot of discussion has been going into these forums lately about what Jade NEEDS or ways to fix her. While she may never get a fix, that does not mean our attitudes and play styles cannot change. Thus, I am creating this post to talk about the way I play Jade, and how I find success with her.

First Off.

Spacing
Contrary to popular belief, Jade is not a mega rush down character. Jade is meant to play a footsie game. Utilizing her long range pokes into safe specials such as staff grab and shadowkick/staff overhead will keep the opponent committed to your strings. Jade's AA is top notch with her b2 from midscreen and her standing one for closer jumpins. Jade's greatest asset in a matchup is her ability to.....WALK. Forcing opponents to chase you allows you to think and utilize your poking, even punish whiffs.

Anti Airs
Jade is one of my favourite characters to anti air with. If someone is dumb enough to jump at you from long distance they are eating at least a quarter of their life from a b2. If they jump in a little closer (close enough that your not sure your b2 will get out in time and not get stuffed) Jades standing 1 is more than enough to cover her weakness. This also leads in to around 20% damage.

The TAC Reset
Before you all start freaking out about the name...just pronounce it "TACK" like the majority of the community does. This is where the bread and butter of this post is going to come from. What's the main problem with the TAC reset? The sacrifice in damage. The main benefit? Removal of opponents wakeups and the option for Jade to control the next move in the match. Now, lately I have been spending a lot of time thinking about how to cover the weaknesses of the TAC reset (lack of damage) which got me thinking in general...perhaps we are not looking in the right places to improve the character.

Jade has a reset which allows her to link into overhead, EX rangs, or go for a throw/poke or even run away. That is a huge advantage. I have been fiddling around in practice mode a little bit, not so much working on the ways to pressure AFTER the TAC reset, (that comes next) but ways to get more damage going INTO the TAC reset. I have found some interesting results.

Before I go into detail, let me break this down for you....these moves will invoke a standing reset after a b2.

d3
d4 (significant advantage on hit)
4 (stagger)
believe it or not, 1,2 will even reset a person if timed correctly. I haven't explored this as much as I want to...but I will be looking into setups off of the 2 that hits.
3 will reset in the corner.

The Corner
Jades corner game is great. Mix in the fact that she has a meterless standing reset and she has almost Sub Zero like potential.

My main setup in the corner on hit or if I am punishing someone after using my glow is to go b1,db2,njp,b2 TAC reset. (4 to EX High boomerang into another string, D4 into low boomerang, or D4 into another over, or throw)

The sequence to get that reset off deals 25% damage. The risk reward is Risk: You lose precious damage Reward: You can the ability to make a decision on the opponents standup.

So, I decided to test some situations this morning that will increase the damage. Instead of worrying about getting that b2 off right away, I began to test doing other moves and ENDING in a b2.

What I found was most interesting.

As I said above, Jades corner TAC reset setup leads to 25% damage. However, I can effectively add another 2% of damage if I do b1,db2, 4, shadow kick, B2 into a d3 TAC reset. I can freely buffer any special after the d3 or go for an amazingly quick throw on block. So, you have 27% damage + the potential for another combo sequence (which you could go for full damage and get around 65%) or, you could go for the throw/bait a special and get another combo/another 12%(totaling 39% damage)




The damage increase of even a potential 2% got me interested in what I could create midscreen and the unlimited potential there could be with a little creativity.

Midscreen

The first rule of the TAC reset, and something that took me a long time to get drilled into my head, midscreen if you hit a b1 for a punish, go for the full punish not the reset. The ~35% damage you get for a punish is great for jade. Now, on those overheads into b2's that's a different story.

Overhead into B2 can net you about 30% damage.

Midscreen TAC reset gives you 14% damage (less then half...yikes) with the potential to further combo into another 30% or go into a blockstring, or throw. Remember, that a throw off the TAC reset will give you 26% which is close to the original damage.

Now, I fiddled around with damage I could add on to the TAC reset here. I found that I could overhead, into 1,2 THEN add the B2 for a 4% damage increase making the reset damage 18%. If you throw at this point, you will achieve the SAME damage as the combo, or you have potential to add another combo, or go into block string chip pressure with rangs. (not shown on video)


This got me curious as well. What other setups could I use to get into the B2 and create a reset potential? Well, some interesting and satisfying results were found.

2,3,f2~shadow kick has excellent push to the corner. Watch my results as I push someone to the corner.


27% into full TAC reset. Using 2,3,f2~Shadowkick 1,2 b2

*video coming shortly*

What about B3,2~Shadow kick?




21% into full standing reset in one of her best poking strings. B3,2~Shadow kick 1,2 b2



F2,1 works the same way for 20%

The point of this post is to maybe get us thinking of an alternative style of Jade...one focused on removing wakeups, dictating pace, and being unpredictable. Remember, you always have the option to go for the big damage if it's to close the round, but these resets should help you increase Jade's overall game. I hope you enjoy and I do hope to bring some new tech very soon :).


~STB TakeAChance
 

LEGEND

YES!
i completely rely on spacing and counter attacks when i have the Health/meter advantage

I use things like 12-SK, B32-SK/pole grab or F212 all followed by special linking pokes to build meter and chip damage then burn said meter to gain the health advantage if i don't already have it. It might be a lame way to win but hey its what Jade was built for, a turtling jade is godlike in the right MUs

EDIT: additions, if you are in a MU that requires you to be up close then resets are generally the best option regardless of the damage reduction

PS: Amazing post Chance, good stuff
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
Good post, but I will not trade +12 frames and 1,2 (3% chip) + throw or df2(for spacing)/df4(for further pressure, being 0 on block) off of d4 with 2% of increased damage off of d3.
 
I'm already trying to incorporate this corner reset in my game, but it's not a simple tech so i have some troubles with it. I use the d+4 reset every time when i'm not sure that i can finish the combo after b+2. Usually i used d+4~staff overhead for the reset, but after some Prinzmetal posts i realized that there's a lot of opportunities for making pressure, like en rangs, b+3 2 or even jump in. Now i'm quiet sure, that Jade's game can be constructed around b+2 reset, so this thread follows the right way.
 

Espio

Kokomo
These are great tips and it's nice to see something positive that will Jade players level up instead of negativity about her status. I remember hearing about Jade's resets but I never tried doing them, I'll try implementing some soon, thanks:).​
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Really good stuff, Chance.

Eliminating wakeup options is huge in this game, and it's really good that Jade can do so by playing footsies, really.
 

GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
I had the chance to play against Krayzie's Jade.


Jade is a lot scarier to fight against when the player has good spacing. Spacing does seem to be key with playing her unlike most characters which does help the non-Jade players be a bit more cautious.
 

Tavaski

Get tough, or die
im serious, im a casual player not a tournament player. i play for fun and bit of a challenge. I play sindel, and when ever i face a decent cage player all he do is rush me down because 1. HE KNOWS HIS CHARACTER IS FASTER 2. HE CAN STOP MY WAKEUPS WITH D3. AUTOMATIC LOST
 

zaf

professor
i found an ermac corner reset using d3 to keep the opponent standing. jade has this too i see.

i wonder how many more chars have this

edit
daaamn a mid screen too ? i have to see if ermac has this too

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk
 

Shady

Noob

But seriously though. I always admired the way Chance stayed behind Jade despite the character being pretty shitty compared to most of the roster. It's always interesting to see what he comes up with and this is one of the main reasons I always wanted to see him at an offline event. Jade, from what I've seen and what he says is an extremely footsie heavy character, and online (lul wut footsies online?!!! Trollolololololol) that means that half her game is gone just like that with a little lag spike (which is why I personally don't even take Sonya online). I for one would be very excited to see him take all of his Jade knowledge and tech into the offline waters to have them put to the test and to maybe prove to people that Jade is not as hopeless as some say?
 

Lulzlou

Noob
im serious, im a casual player not a tournament player. i play for fun and bit of a challenge. I play sindel, and when ever i face a decent cage player all he do is rush me down because 1. HE KNOWS HIS CHARACTER IS FASTER 2. HE CAN STOP MY WAKEUPS WITH D3. AUTOMATIC LOST
Being a casual player doesn't mean you can't improve your level play by a tad. Depending on how long you play, sit in practice with your character and see what works. It helps if you have a buddy. Spend a good 25% of your time in practice, the more you know about your character the better.

Sitting here freaking out about what you can't do isn't going to get you anywhere.
 
the problem i find with jade is that her normals have to much recorver frames on wiff and she can only get good damage from b1 and 3 and both of them are slow and have again to much recover on wiff
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
im serious, im a casual player not a tournament player. i play for fun and bit of a challenge. I play sindel, and when ever i face a decent cage player all he do is rush me down because 1. HE KNOWS HIS CHARACTER IS FASTER 2. HE CAN STOP MY WAKEUPS WITH D3. AUTOMATIC LOST
Balance shouldn't even matter to you because you're not even playing competitively, where balance even matters.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
i found an ermac corner reset using d3 to keep the opponent standing. jade has this too i see.

i wonder how many more chars have this

edit
daaamn a mid screen too ? i have to see if ermac has this too

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk
baraka can reset with d3 off a sweep (old cage style), works anywhere,can also link to slices for some extra chip/meter
cyraxs d4 reset in the corner is so good (212,d4) didnt know about that one till it was done in a tourny to me by u4g
 

Tavaski

Get tough, or die
Balance shouldn't even matter to you because you're not even playing competitively, where balance even matters.
Where's the fun in an unbalanced game tho???? test your luck? i play for fun not to get pissed off by some frame trapping bullshit
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Where's the fun in an unbalanced game tho???? test your luck? i play for fun not to get pissed off by some frame trapping bullshit
Use Sindel's D1 if you get stuck being pressured by frametraps. If she had armor, that would solve it so just use D1 then retreat.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
Guys, it's not the d3 that resets, it's the move before the d3 which puts the opponent in a state where he can be reset with either d3 or other fast normal. Don't get confused.

baraka can reset with d3 off a sweep (old cage style), works anywhere,can also link to slices for some extra chip/meter
cyraxs d4 reset in the corner is so good (212,d4) didnt know about that one till it was done in a tourny to me by u4g
Cage still resets after his sweep. Try njp->sweep->d3/d1.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
the problem i find with jade is that her normals have to much recorver frames on wiff and she can only get good damage from b1 and 3 and both of them are slow and have again to much recover on wiff
3 has terrible reach as a combo starter
B1 has very slow recovery
2 is not so bad as a starter
But her normals are really slow to begin with.

In that sense, she is like Baraka who needs a jip+normal as a combo starter
 

Tavaski

Get tough, or die
Use Sindel's D1 if you get stuck being pressured by frametraps. If she had armor, that would solve it so just use D1 then retreat.
Thanks for the input, but im done playing this game. I'll leave it to the pros who think they're so good by studying frame data and matchups and all the other advantage bullcrap they do
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
Thanks for the input, but im done playing this game. I'll leave it to the pros who think they're so good by studying frame data and matchups and all the other advantage bullcrap they do
You can do fairly well just by reading and applying general strategies and learning combos. Don't leave the game, it's fun :)