Breakthrough Rethinking Jade. Have we been playing her wrong?

[SZSR]

Thanks for the input, but im done playing this game. I'll leave it to the pros who think they're so good by studying frame data and matchups and all the other advantage bullcrap they do

Tavaski, to get good at any game is to experience it constantly, post questions, lose a lot, and study on the information given to you.

You'll have to work at it to be competitive. If you're simply playing this casually, that's fine but you're playing with the cards you've been dealt and the experience from casual play. Don't expect for win everything strategies for your favorites.

 

[RTM2004]

huh?
baraka can easily start combos outside a jip, his d4 can get him in for f4,4 setups as just one example

His normals are slow as a combo starter. His F4/4 is good pressure to get stuff going on ground which sets him up with B3,1 pop up. I've played ETI Charybdis Baraka he said Baraka is dependent on it if the opponent knows Baraka mix-ups and is a zoner. Fortunately Baraka's jip has ridiculous range for it to hit confirm, I'm jealous!

 

[bloodsport]

i found an ermac corner reset using d3 to keep the opponent standing. jade has this too i see.

i wonder how many more chars have this

edit
daaamn a mid screen too ? i have to see if ermac has this too

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk

Reptile, Ermac, Mileena, Shang (not as good as they used to be though), Sonya, Jade, Kenshi (in tag only? idk).. there's a few haha.

 

[Prinz]

Reptile, Ermac, Mileena, Shang (not as good as they used to be though), Sonya, Jade, Kenshi (in tag only? idk).. there's a few haha.

Yeah, Kenshi's is similar to Jade's. Are you talking about Sonya's 112 string as a reset, or she has something else?

 

[1man3letters]

His normals are slow as a combo starter. His F4/4 is good pressure to get stuff going on ground which sets him up with B3,1 pop up. I've played ETI Charybdis Baraka he said Baraka is dependent on it if the opponent knows Baraka mix-ups and is a zoner. Fortunately Baraka's jip has ridiculous range for it to hit confirm, I'm jealous!

imo opinion b3,1 should be kept to punishing as most of the cat get a full combo if its blocked, b3,2 far better as cancel to slices on block and chop on hit
also i think baraka does better when the opp knows his mixups,something to be scared of,ignorance is bliss when it comes to baraka i think

to be honest ive never noticed baraka having more jip range that others,must check it out

 

[Tavaski]

dude i know combos and i know how to play this game, am not a scrub. I just hate how theres so many flaws and frustrating matchups in the game. For me its mileena, raiden and cage matchups that spanks me the most, these players all play the respective characters the same damn way nothing original. Just exploits the whole match up, these guys didnt take the time to learn their character at all from my understanding. All they did was join a community and learn how to play a character in the most annoying and exploited way. For example KABAL

 

[RTM2004]

imo opinion b3,1 should be kept to punishing as most of the cat get a full combo if its blocked, b3,2 far better as cancel to slices on block and chop on hit
also i think baraka does better when the opp knows his mixups,something to be scared of,ignorance is bliss when it comes to baraka i think

to be honest ive never noticed baraka having more jip range that others,must check it out

I get jip'd by Baraka it's not even funny, I'm like half screen dashing back and still get hit by it. More annoying when I try to zone him, he dashes forward then jip combo'd me. It got me thinking, Scorpion/Sub-Zero players do that to me too.

 

[NYCj360]

Thanks for the input, but im done playing this game. I'll leave it to the pros who think they're so good by studying frame data and matchups and all the other advantage bullcrap they do

If your such a casual player than why even get mad? It sounds like you have something against people who actually put in work to get better at a game. At the end of the day it doesnt matter because its a game, if your done with the game why would you still watch it being playeD?

 

[Tavaski]

If your such a casual player than why even get mad? It sounds like you have something against people who actually put in work to get better at a game. At the end of the day it doesnt matter because its a game, if your done with the game why would you still watch it being playeD?

Because i like the game, its a good fighting game. yes am mad because all these exploits u guys call tech is gonna make it look good but eventually ruin the game

 

[Lulzlou]

Thanks for the input, but im done playing this game. I'll leave it to the pros who think they're so good by studying frame data and matchups and all the other advantage bullcrap they do

Stick to playing ladder if you don't want to deal with it.
If you want to play competitively and be "pro," you need to put a lot of time into your character and the game in general. Rage quitting because you can't figure it out yourself isn't going to get you anywhere. I said this in my last post and you ignored it.

Relax, invest time into your character and play to win.

 

[JustObserver]

Too many offtop in such important thread.

 

[TakeAChance]

Tav, Jades reset isn't broken. Damage is not guaranteed. It's not like Cyrax's. I will bet you any money NRS wont take it out...she NEEDS it.

Also, please keep conversation relevant to the topic. No sense talking about Baraka in a thread clearly about Jade.

 

[quandaghost]

Where's the fun in an unbalanced game tho???? test your luck? i play for fun not to get pissed off by some frame trapping bullshit

every game has frametraps and no fighting game is balanced unlss your playing virtua fighter or something i guess. but like thtb said your playing casually so some these things go over your head in importance and utility. this isnt anything game breaking its preasent in any game like how hard knockdowns are important in sf4 or linking into your hd is in kof or whiff punishment in tekken/ soul calibur. these things are elements that make up the metagame and helps form the strategies and the reasons behind some moves in high level play not berating you or anything though

 

[Prinz]

dude i know combos and i know how to play this game, am not a scrub. I just hate how theres so many flaws and frustrating matchups in the game. For me its mileena, raiden and cage matchups that spanks me the most, these players all play the respective characters the same damn way nothing original. Just exploits the whole match up, these guys didnt take the time to learn their character at all from my understanding. All they did was join a community and learn how to play a character in the most annoying and exploited way. For example KABAL

True. It's here where you start playing against the player, not the character. All characters have the same set of tools (Raiden - teleport and superman, Kabal - NDC and zoning, Mileena - is just a bitch lol), but once you figure out a player's strategies, he's pretty much toast.

Ok, so on-topic. I really think the reset should be done using d4, it's +12 on hit and does the same 2% (it does 3% on hit, while d3 - 0,5% I guess). It's just more advantage and is guaranteed pressure with 12 into throw/special. Even 4/b32 into special works.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

Tavaski this game is not fair and it is not something where you can apply the rules of "honorable play". Use what works. I've grinded more online matches with Jade than anyone in the community on four accounts and countless hours, yet I'm nowhere close to being unbeatable with her.
Online is shit. If you play "casual" do not play characters that take skill.
Now please stop flaming this topic, my house, get out.

TakeAChance Good stuff there with the low poke reset thing, except it's not really Jade specific: any character that can do a juggle pop-up can hit the falling opponent with a low and reset them into standing. I wouldn't call it a "reset" because unlike Scorpion's or Smoke's resets this does not guarantee a combo, only increases the chance thereof.

Not to say this doesn't improve Jade in some way and you've found some neat gimmicks right there, so hats off. Just trying to put this into perspective: playing a weak character with a lot of skill still won't make you beat a stronger character played by the same skill as you have.
Jade does need buffs / fixes.

Good stuff here though. Moar plz!

 

[STRYKIE]

Tav, Jades reset isn't broken. Damage is not guaranteed. It's not like Cyrax's. I will bet you any money NRS wont take it out...she NEEDS it.

Too bad they didn't have any qualms about nerfing U3, a move that hits high for Christ's sake. (oh so Reo won a match by abusing it, whoopdee fuck, do you see Kung Lao's spin whiffing on crouching opponents? No? Didn't think so.) Jade players use dirt because that's all NRS have left them with.

Disclaimers: I don't main Jade.
Disclaimers: some of you guys should still really think about looking into secondaries, character loyalty became irrelevant to me after NRS only cared about making Stryker look aesthetically pleasing in this game, and left his BNB fundamentals being a bunch of impractical hacked shit.

 

[TakeAChance]

Tavaski
TakeAChance Good stuff there with the low poke reset thing, except it's not really Jade specific: any character that can do a juggle pop-up can hit the falling opponent with a low and reset them into standing. I wouldn't call it a "reset" because unlike Scorpion's or Smoke's resets this does not guarantee a combo, only increases the chance thereof.


Good stuff here though. Moar plz!

That is completely inaccurate. Very few characters have a useful reset in this manner. This is actually a TRUE bonafide reset. It removes the wakeup option completely, 100% of the time by resetting the opponent to standing position. Go grab ANY character and try poking them on a juggle and see if they stand up. Jade can only do this after a b2 it does not work on ANY of her other strings, which is why I was working on making it more effective and filling its holes.

Scorpion doesn't have a reset at all...Scorpion has a vortex. Entirely different. Smoke's reset is not guaranteed.

I understand if you are frustrated with the character, but this topic is about improving what we have. You have made your opinions known in your own topic and I do not intend to let this thread turn into a similar one.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

So you're saying that this reset guarantees combos?

 

[TakeAChance]

So you're saying that this reset guarantees combos?

No.....I am saying this reset guarantees a reset. I think you need to look up the definition of a reset.

"A reset" is when you intentionally stop a combo in the middle of it in order to try and start a new one; you're giving up guaranteed damage for a chance at a much larger payout, since the damage scaling "resets" back to zero.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

True resets guarantee the larger payout usually.

 

[THTB]

Thanks for the input, but im done playing this game. I'll leave it to the pros who think they're so good by studying frame data and matchups and all the other advantage bullcrap they do

Sorry you don't want to keep playing. A lot of the things you don't like are pretty much present in any fighting game.

Honestly I don't see why it bothers you so much. You're not playing the game competitively...it's not like you have money on the line. You're just a casual player.

Also, you can know combos and still be a scrub. Being a scrub is a mentality.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

THTB He thinks he can outwhine me. Tell him he can't!

 

[quandaghost]

True resets guarantee the larger payout usually.

only smoke guarantees a reset scorpions only guarantees a high low mix up not a guaranteed combo sir and most character doing this have mix-up, or some type of set-up

 

[Espio]

I went into practice mode and tried this reset, it seems weird trying to get it off. I did it a couple times, I like the 25% one especially and from what I could tell it doesn't guarantee a free combo, where are people getting that from?

dude i know combos and i know how to play this game, am not a scrub. I just hate how theres so many flaws and frustrating matchups in the game. For me its mileena, raiden and cage matchups that spanks me the most, these players all play the respective characters the same damn way nothing original. Just exploits the whole match up, these guys didnt take the time to learn their character at all from my understanding. All they did was join a community and learn how to play a character in the most annoying and exploited way. For example KABAL

I don't think you're understanding, Raiden gives everyone trouble, especially online. Mileena seems to be a bad match up for Sindel and Johnny Cage is really good at putting people on lockdown, these are not exploits, they are strengths for the characters.

Sindel has bad match ups, but sindel is a bad match up for other characters, it's how things work.

Kabal takes high execution and skill to be good with, he's not a cake character to use.


You can't win all the time and certain characters make it so you cannot play your normal game. When I pick Stryker I zone Johnny Cage like my life depends on it, but when I fight Kenshi, I rush him down, it's important to adjust to your matchups.

Any character you play has annoying match ups.

, Mileena - is just a bitch lol),

LOL truer words have never been spoken.

Too bad they didn't have any qualms about nerfing U3, a move that hits high for Christ's sake. (oh so Reo won a match by abusing it, whoopdee fuck, do you see Kung Lao's spin whiffing on crouching opponents? No? Didn't think so.) Jade players use dirt because that's all NRS have left them with.

Disclaimers: I don't main Jade.
Disclaimers: some of you guys should still really think about looking into secondaries, character loyalty became irrelevant to me after NRS only cared about making Stryker look aesthetically pleasing in this game, and left his BNB fundamentals being a bunch of impractical hacked shit.

Agree with most of your points, up 3 gets 11%, while Kung Lao's spin gets a full combo and nobody thought to get rid of that, it just seems illogical and given that Baraka's spin can also be poked out of it further makes minimal sense, but that's getting majorly off topic....



As for finding secondaries...I personally don't want to, Jade and Stryker are some of my favorites, if I drop them, I'm dropping the game entirely, I refuse to play a character I don't like nor care about just to cover bad match ups. I see good players overcoming bad matchups all the time and I've done so before too.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

I do wonder if nrs even reads these boards tbh. I think they just watch pro matches and knee-jerk patch shit without actually, yknow....


Thinking...?

I mean I haven't seen Ed Boon post "Look, Jaded, Jade got nerfed because she has THIS and THIS and THIS and you overlooked that she can do THAT and THAT too so if you play her like THIS you shut Raiden, Reptile and Mileena down like they're NOTHING. See? She's not ass tier you just didn't realize these details."

instead, they took one of the weakest characters in the game, and fucked her up. So if boomerang returns, boo hoo, big deal, it doesn't return at ALL TIMES only when it's in the mood, and then it doesn't always combo as well either, for low to combo you have to be far away and then hurry to dash in with a b1 (which is a stupid input to rush in with btw)

gah. I'll stop ranting. Pointless. Let's hope they grow a brain and fix Jade.