Go look at the match up chart thread for Flash, which I didn't make, and then go look at the match up charts for other characters, that I didn't make, and most of the match ups I listed are confirmed by other players either in other characters threads or people coming into our thread to agree with our numbers.
and long time quan chi players were saying that he needed buffs last game after placing top 5 at evo, so that really isn't the measure. Just want to say Flash has a few losing match ups like Batman and Aquaman, but most match-ups are 5-5's even when he gets dismantled, and he has some definite winning MU's even vs top tiers.
Yeah man for sure. If you look at my Flash matchup thread, I have him 6-4 against Darkseid (if he's still considered top), and the first page of that thread is me arguing why Flash beats Black Adam 6-4 as well. But I kept getting blown up by people saying I was wrong so I put BA at 5-5. I still think it's 6-4 and especially will be when BA gets a damage nerf.
I call them buffs but most suggestions I have made for Cheetah are quality of life fixes. When Cheetah gets top 8 at evo you can compare them but for now its apples and oranges. I'm not asking for safe divekicks or plus 5 blocking strings or plus specials, which are abundant in this game. I want to add to her toolkit to make her a more complete, technical character, not just a lunge/random divekick fest.
Don't feel. Just like scarecrow they have an amazing character with amazing tools. It is okay to have some bad matchups lol.
..... what.... I just explained how you can get more pressure after B22, in so many ways. this is so wrong.
This character is my main fyi, but thank you for your suggestions to lab how to punish it. I didn't say Ground Pound cancel is un punishable, I said they have to make a hard read to do so FYI throwing out d to beat a ground pound cancel gets you opened up if Flash goes for delayed LK, a key mix-up tool, and waiting for the punish on delayed LK leaves Flash plus if he went for Ground Pound. There's no guaranteed punish. You have to make a read so its another mix-up. If you read wrong even if you block it he can keep his turn.
how is that only relevant to Flash in your opinion? That affects everyones offense equally, possibly least of all Flash thanks to the fact that his offense is the least reliant on spacing and neutral, which he doesn't have.
i dont think you know what your own character is capable of. this is just wrong, since I've already explained how I don't know what to add. He get's 400 off a B2 hit midscreen, and thats vs Superman, more vs most. He has plenty of pressure and chip. Work on your BnBs, condition your opponent. Level up.
..... isnt that exactly what this thread is too?
he does NOT have 10 losing matchups. People are confusing any match where they have to work hard against a similarly skilled opponent a losing MU. Yes, he gets raped in the neutral by say Fate and has to work extremely hard to get in. When he does, his pressure and offense is much higher execution than Fate's flashiest shit. Not a losing match up, he gets in eventually and can wreck him, completely outmixes him and does literally over double his damage on a lot of things. He has one of the best MB rolls in the game to do so. People are downplaying and mistaken.
Hey for the record my matchup chart as i've said in that thread is not the end all be all. You obviously have some input on matchup numbers I wish you would help contribute to the chart because you sold me on the fate one just now. That's what it's there for, you know? I try to represent the Flash community as best I can by actively changing the numbers based one the discussions I read across TYM and the Flash discord. I would hate to be called a downplayer just because I wanted to help out and make a matchup thread where we could all discuss this stuff. A matchup chart doesn't change unless people speak up and talk about it. I'm always happy to make any adjustments. This goes to everyone. Flash players. Participate in the matchup thread.
I think they actually punishable. But I agree the window should be bigger. Tired of this -8ish shit. If something is supposed to be punishable make it -15, if it is supposed to be safe, than make it -6 but I really don't like all these tight punishes in a game with the input system as weird as injustice 2.
They don't have to make a hard read to punish Sonic Pound, it has 25 frames of start up. After a block string that's all they need to be watching for: what special they are canceling into. Most characters as far as I know can punish it with a D1 into aerial conversion.
You make it sound easy, but in reality, after flash is in on most of the cast the only thing they can do is guess right or take 50%+ dmg. He has ways to blow you up for trying to blow up his "fake" pressure. His d2 for example, it low profiles almost every mid/high/overhead normal in the game and launches for good dmg, in other words, you gotta think twice about counterpoking his pressure. His oki is insane and he can end the round very quickly. If he combos you and puts you in the corner at the beggining of the round you are one guess away of loosing an entire lifebar.
i agree with everything you said other than his neutral not being poor. While he COULD be in the top 10 discussion, I think that's being generous but aye it's potentially there, I don't think it's fair to describe his nuetral as anything but poor. Swamp Thing debatably has better neutral. Flash's is legitimately poor and is a fair offset to his insane offense.
D1 is all you need to blow up his fake RMS pressure, and yes it will beat out his D2. D2 doesn't beat out D1's after D12xxRMS or F2xxRMS. Poke him out of it then it's your turn. It is that easy.
As a darkseid player, D2 does low profile every normal my character has except his lows, even my b1 overhead and charging parademon.
I'm not saying his D2 doesn't low profile. I'm telling you that if you D1 when you see him go into RMS from any string other than B2 or B22, you will hit him before his D2 starts to come out. It is that negative. He does not have a way to blow you up for poking out of this, which is what you don't seem to understand. It is fake pressure.
I just think it's okay for characters to struggle somewhere.
I think characters should have a weakness, but I don't think walk speed start up or back dash improvements would make it so he doesn't struggle in the neutral. It would just force a lot of his bad match ups to actually think about throwing out advancing or long range buttons, because as of now Flash just has to sit and hold it, and if it leads to decent spacing for them, he doesn't even get reversal pressure when the opponent is negative.
Ok so you are making them react with a d1 so why not just cancel and block? Not many characters are gonna be really that scary with a d1. Then once you see that they'll poke everytime if you're in the corner why not go for RMS 1, you'll get a full combo do you know how messed up that is? You literally did a 50/50 that they guessed right on and they don't wanna eat another 50/50 so they poke to get out ,but get hit and just die. You don't have to be always pressing buttons all the time to create offense. Its so dumb that you have to guess on not only his 50/50 but also what he'll do afterwards and if you aren't careful it'll be really bad for you and you can also cancel a flash kick into a backdash and you are right in jumping distance of them. I just wish I knew his frame data on all rms cancels but even if they're say -9, you are still making people react.
You are scrub, nothing personal
Get better and youll realize its u who needs the buff and not the character
