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Reasonable Flash buffs?

I realized he didn't fit my style after watching Whiteboi use him and dropped him.

Now i'm only returning the favor. all these scrubs telling us that SC was op and didn't need anything are the same asking for buffs to perfectly viable chars.
If you call have more than 10 losing match ups viable, I guess you could call Flash viable. I guess he's still better than Swamp Thing right?
 
Really you figured out the entire game in just a few weeks?
You're right all those Swamp Thing and Captain Cold players probably just don't realize their characters could be top tier. I mean, how could they have any idea only two months after the game comes out on what match ups are like.
What's sad is in the swamp thing match up chart they got him beating flash 6-4. But this Shaka kid got beat by a flash online once so I guess he needs a nerf lol.
I mean he plays Aquaman. Flash could beat Aquaman really badly, we might not know yet this early in the game's life. It's only been two months.
 
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Shaka

Tier Whore.
You're right all those Swamp Thing and Captain Cold players probably just don't realize their characters could be top tier. I mean, how could they have any idea only two months after the game comes out on what match ups are like.

I mean he plays Aquaman. Flash could beat Aquaman really badly, we might not know yet this early in the game's life. It's only been two months.
How old are you? i was talking about Flash. is this how you process info?
 
How old are you? i was talking about Flash. is this how you process info?
I tell you Flash has 10+ losing match ups. You make the assertion that there is no way to know how match ups are this early in the game. Tiers are determined by match ups. Captain Cold and Swamp Thing are considered to be low tier by almost everyone. But if it's too early to know what match ups look like, then who knows where Captain Cold and Swamp Thing are on the tier lists. So using your logic, it's too early to say that Captain Cold and Swamp thing are low tier, and for all we know they could be top tier. See how that thought process worked out?

Or maybe two months is enough time to get a decent idea of how match ups are played out. Not saying all the nuances are known, but almost everyone at this point can give you a somewhat accurate match up number for any given match up against character released at launch for their main. Hence all the match up charts that have been posted recently for a lot of characters.
 
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El_Rubio

Mortal
I tell you Flash has 10+ losing match ups.
Lets see...
1 Superman
2 Batman
3 Black Adams
4 Aquaman
5 Deadshot
6 Atrocitus
7 Harley (not sure about this one)
8 Fate (not sure about this one)
9 Catwoman (not sure about this one)
10 Supergirl (not sure about this one)
 
Lets see...
1 Superman
2 Batman
3 Black Adams
4 Aquaman
5 Deadshot
6 Atrocitus
7 Harley (not sure about this one)
8 Fate (not sure about this one)
9 Catwoman (not sure about this one)
10 Supergirl (not sure about this one)
1. Aquaman
2. Atrocitus
3. Batman
4. Captain Cold
5. Catwoman
6. Dr. Fate
7. Green Arrow
8. Harley Quinn
9. Scarecrow
10. Wonder Woman

That's not counting Deadshot, Poison Ivy, Red Hood, Superman, and probably Subzero but it's too early to tell.

Somehow the match up chart for Swamp Thing right now lists Flash as a good match up for him too, even though I don't agree with that.

I feel like Deadshot and Superman are 5-5, but others think they're bad, Poison Ivy I think it is in her favor but I don't know if it's agreed upon as a bad match up, most feel Red Hood is a losing match up but it's early so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt and not saying it definitively, and Subzero's clone will probably act the same as Captain Cold's ice puddle that is the sole reason that is a bad match up.

So that's potentially 11-16 bad match ups, but my number is 12 as of now. His problem isn't just the top tiers. Nerfing the top tiers alone isn't going to help this character much since he has issues against all tiers.

If he's going to be a low tier character so be it, but he definitely needs tweaks from his current state.
 
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Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Before this thread goes to pot.

People need to remember that Flashes up close game is s tier but his neutral is b tier.

To balance him you'd need to tone down his up close and buff his neutral. Flash players would need to accept that he can't keep his offense the same and make it easier to get in.

Let the trolls continue
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Before this thread goes to pot.

People need to remember that Flashes up close game is s tier but his neutral is b tier.

To balance him you'd need to tone down his up close and buff his neutral. Flash players would need to accept that he can't keep his offense the same and make it easier to get in.

Let the trolls continue
one could say the exact same thing about cheetah but you never suggest anything but buffs for her
 

Meep8345

Apprentice
1. Aquaman
2. Atrocitus
3. Batman
4. Captain Cold
5. Catwoman
6. Dr. Fate
7. Green Arrow
8. Harley Quinn
9. Scarecrow
10. Wonder Woman

That's not counting Deadshot, Poison Ivy, Red Hood, Superman, and probably Subzero but it's too early to tell.

Somehow the match up chart for Swamp Thing right now lists Flash as a good match up for him too, even though I don't agree with that.

I feel like Deadshot and Superman are 5-5, but others think they're bad, Poison Ivy I think it is in her favor but I don't know if it's agreed upon as a bad match up, most feel Red Hood is a losing match up but it's early so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt and not saying it definitively, and Subzero's clone will probably act the same as Captain Cold's ice puddle that is the sole reason that is a bad match up.

So that's potentially 11-16 bad match ups, but my number is 12 as of now. His problem isn't just the top tiers. Nerfing the top tiers alone isn't going to help this character much since he has issues against all tiers.

If he's going to be a low tier character so be it, but he definitely needs tweaks from his current state.
There's no way he has that many bad mu's.
 
There's no way he has that many bad mu's.
Why, do you main Flash or any of the characters listed to give your input one way or the other? If so, then tell me why, if not, pick up the character and form your own opinion and let me know later. My number is 11 or 13 counting the DLC characters and I don't even think he loses to characters that others feel he does. Honeybee's number is 15. Just because Honeybee was able to win against disadvantaged match ups doesn't mean they weren't just that.
Before this thread goes to pot.

People need to remember that Flashes up close game is s tier but his neutral is b tier.

To balance him you'd need to tone down his up close and buff his neutral. Flash players would need to accept that he can't keep his offense the same and make it easier to get in.

Let the trolls continue
His up close game isn't even S tier. Sure he has a frame trap but he has no continued pressure and no safe special cancels on block. If he's trying to be safe he can't even commit to damage. Not to say his up close game isn't good, because it is but it's also balanced. If you think having a 50/50 makes a character have an S tier up close game then how would you describe characters like Batman or Atrocitus?
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
If CatWoman's BF2 can be given armour when mb'ed why can't Flash's? Seems fair
She doesn't get it at the start of the move, only when the second part komes in... Also, she doesn't have 50/50s like Flash does... When she gets in, the opponent just has to have good defense to not get opened up.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Why, do you main Flash or any of the characters listed to give your input one way or the other? If so, then tell me why, if not, pick up the character and form your own opinion and let me know later. My number is 11 or 13 counting the DLC characters and I don't even think he loses to characters that others feel he does. Honeybee's number is 15. Just because Honeybee was able to win against disadvantaged match ups doesn't mean they weren't just that.
you're the one who made that match up chart , if you want to use it as your evidence of flash needing buffs the onus is on you to provide some sort of reasoning to explain the decisions, not for him to try and disprove it - its yet to be credible.


His up close game isn't even S tier. Sure he has a frame trap but he has no continued pressure and no safe special cancels on block. If he's trying to be safe he can't even commit to damage. Not to say his up close game isn't good, because it is but it's also balanced. If you think having a 50/50 makes a character have an S tier up close game then how would you describe characters like Batman or Atrocitus?
what, just what? no continued pressure? B22 gives you 50/50 on block, and in the corner, you get another 50/50 mixup off Ground Pound, which is plus on block. They can beat that with a D2 on READ but that opens them up to delayed LK. and if they are respecting the 50/50 he can go into more raw frame trap pressure anyway again, which includes staggering the first hit, or finishing the string and going into rms or special cancel pressure off that too. D1, D12, D12~Ground Pound, D12~delayed LK is real pressure as well. His special cancels may not be safe but to try punish them you risk full combo, and flash outdamages almost everyone and has some of the best setplay in the game so the risk reward is still in his favor even if they TRY to punish Ground Pound cancel on read. His up close game is absolutely S tier. The only people matching is maybe Supes and Batman, even then probably not. Flash is balanced out by his neutral.
 
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doomfarmer

unorthodox
I hope you guys read through this thread before it turned into trollfest '17 from armchair flash players, or at least read the OP. No one is saying he's bottom. He's mid tier. Yes he has a lot of losing matchups. Most mid tier characters do. The OP is questioning what, if any (important part) buffs he could use. Flash players know the wrong buff would rocket him into top tier. I even ask the question of, does he really need anything, and will Flash's game be improved just by having the top tier characters brought down in the balance patch. This was supposed to be a discussion, not a demand for buffs, which is how it seems some people are reading it. You guys are honestly taking away from Honeybee's playing at this point. He beat foreverking. He beat sonicfox. He beat theo. Honeybee did that. Not the character. Did you guys go into the Joker forums and blow up Joker players when sonicfox beat foreverking at CEO? Or did sonic just outplay him?

Mid tier doesn't mean BAD and it seems like that's what some people are interpreting all this as. Flash players saying he has a lot of bad matchups does not translate to "our character is trash lolol". In what world does a 4-6 matchup mean impossible to win? I hope everyone can take a step back and realize just how godly Honeybee played at Evo. The commentators mentioned over and over, it's a mid tier character. Long time Flash players will tell you, it's a mid tier character. Honeybee played like a machine. You have to give credit to him. The man has been grinding this character since the first Injustice and the result was clearly shown on that stage. Don't take that away from him by coming in here and being disrespectful.