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Match-up Discussion Raven Matchup Discussion

Squeaker101

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
How do you guys play the Doomsday MU? He's been giving me trouble.

I usually MB b3 when he does that MB Sky Drop thingy, since her forward dash isn't that great. His trait coupled with his dash makes him really hard to zone.
 
S

Sprint

Noob
Yeah, the MB is the way to go if you're having a hard time reacting with a dash.

Most of Raven's moves are punishable on hit when Doomsday's trait is active. I made a post HERE with approximate framedata which gives an idea of what buttons are safe to press against him.

The best thing you can do is press d1 as soon as you get a chance, and as long as you get the timing right then you can keep doing it to push him back, and he has no way to counterhit you out of it. The main thing to look out for is him jumping over one, which isn't a major worry as you'll recover well in time to block.

If he does something punishable while his trait is active, f2,2,2 is safe.
Another option is anti-air super. He can't absorb that.
 
Vogue

Vogue

Mortal
Doomsday is not easy for me at all. Stay out of the air at all cost. Punish all his non-MB charges. When he traits up try to d1 him until its over. Learn to block his high low game and meter burn his stupid dive. Don't try to run away and get pushed into the corner you will die there, hold your ground and punish any unsafe moves.
 
Vogue

Vogue

Mortal
Hawk girl feels 5-5 to me, she can be really really hard to block against real Hawkgirls, but in the neutral game you can get demon and pillar all day leading to good damage with 2bars. One of my favorite fights with Raven.
 
TrulyAmiracle

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Vogue said:
Hawk girl feels 5-5 to me, she can be really really hard to block against real Hawkgirls, but in the neutral game you can get demon and pillar all day leading to good damage with 2bars. One of my favorite fights with Raven.
Click to expand...
if the hawkgirl is giving you space to activate trait they're playing the matchup wrong. It feels 5.5-4.5 advantage to HG, its very based on momentum from what I've noticed.. if you make them play "your" game you control the match.

Hawkgirl wants to stay semi-mid range in the air, where both SC and lift wont reach her and she can toss maces at Raven and punish trait activation. Where Raven is trying to either be close enough to use lift and bring hawkgirl down or with enough distance to be able to use trait and start pillaring all day and use teleports.
However i feel hawkgirl can get into her "comfort zone" alot easier in this matchup and make Raven the one having to take risks.
I could be wrong but I havent lost to a Raven whenever i play as Hawkgirl, and i always feel like I'm the one having to risk my ass whenever I'm playing Raven vs HG.

Either way both characters are very rare so if any of you want to play so we can get more experience in the MU I'm down.
 
darkmoonlight_va

darkmoonlight_va

Kitana Assassin Main
In general, how do I deal with a far range superman spammer with laserbeams? I know I can use her empty void, but I can't get in because the beam hits me when I use her trait to try and teleport.
 
Vogue

Vogue

Mortal
darkmoonlight_va said:
In general, how do I deal with a far range superman spammer with laserbeams? I know I can use her empty void, but I can't get in because the beam hits me when I use her trait to try and teleport.
Click to expand...
Nice avatar.

Walk forward full screen. Duck when you see superman kind of lean back because that means he's doing the eye beam that shoots fast and is high. If you see him go into the air for eye beams block high and keep walking forward punish with soul crush as he falls. If he does the ground laser is pretty easy to jump unless he meter burns which makes it an overhead. Stay in soul crush max range and he can't do much since a soul crush check can hit him out of most things. Stay out of his f23 string range.
 
TrulyAmiracle

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Hoooooly shit dude, is there any matchup that Raven actually wins? wtf man.. like every matchup I've played as Raven has felt like an uphill.
Supes, Doomsday, DS, BA, Nightwing, Lex, Aquaman, Grundy, Batgirl, Scorpion..

So help me out here guys is there any matchup where I should be playing Raven over Hawkgirl, Deathstroke or Bladam?
 
TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
Eternal Blaze said:
Hoooooly shit dude, is there any matchup that Raven actually wins? wtf man.. like every matchup I've played as Raven has felt like an uphill.
Supes, Doomsday, DS, BA, Nightwing, Lex, Aquaman, Grundy, Batgirl, Scorpion..

So help me out here guys is there any matchup where I should be playing Raven over Hawkgirl, Deathstroke or Bladam?
Click to expand...
Only about half the match-ups you listed are hard for Raven (Superman, Black Adam, Nightwing, Aquaman, Batgirl).

What problems are you having with these matchups specifically?
 
Kiko

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
Eternal Blaze said:
Hoooooly shit dude, is there any matchup that Raven actually wins? wtf man.. like every matchup I've played as Raven has felt like an uphill.
Supes, Doomsday, DS, BA, Nightwing, Lex, Aquaman, Grundy, Batgirl, Scorpion..

So help me out here guys is there any matchup where I should be playing Raven over Hawkgirl, Deathstroke or Bladam?
Click to expand...

All these characters have good pressure, close up games, and have almost no problem getting in.

Against supes I try to play a heavy zoning game before he can get in close. I shut down all laser attempts with pillars (you really don't want to miss any). A fundamentally strong defense game is needed against this powerhouse.


Black Adam's dive kick really hurt his game in this MU because he no longer has his "get in free" card on raven. Raven doesn't necessarily always have to respect black Adam when he jumps in the air. Playing a good ground game/defensive/anti zoning game is crucial. I like to think of it as "don't get knocked down."

Batgirl is easy to outzone and keeping her out is a very good idea until you master blocking her strings. Teleport is so easily punishable it's ridiculous, and you just really want to avoid random jumps into the air (including trait).

Scorpion is lol after this nerf. Honestly if you respect his options the way you did before while throwing in lifts and pushes when he's anywhere outside of close range, this is a solid match up.


Deathstroke is a little tougher because you HAVE TO stay at mid range all the time. Long range isn't that hard to punish in demon mode but up close isn't that fun at all. Watch out for his low starter it's relatively quick. But most of his combos aren't AMAZING and you can pull this one if you always punish those easily blockable gunshots from mid range.


I find the Aquaman MU can go either way. Remember your zoning options are better than his. You want to stick to blocking low and react to his overheads. Staying out of trident close up range is optimal in this MU. You can easily full combo punish anything at that range. And don't be afraid to use meter. Raven builds it extremely fast and the demon mode pull set up is perfect.


With Nightwing, almost the exact same thing applies to him as Aquaman. In staff mode you want to stay out of that staff range and punish (jump ins are also great at this range). In escrima, long range is optimal. Raven has a great keep away game (b23 is nice) and leads to demon mode destruction.


Lex can be outzoned easily and up close he isn't that good either. Honestly if you learn to punish his attacks and avoid his corp charge wake up (predictable as fuck sometimes) this MU is not bad at all.

Grundy and Doomsday are tough MU's for Raven because all of their attacks leave breaking through any real spacing options Raven has. :/


These are all general tips for the MU, we can go in depth on each one if you like.
 
TrulyAmiracle

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
TarkatanDentist said:
Only about half the match-ups you listed are hard for Raven (Superman, Black Adam, Nightwing, Aquaman, Batgirl).

What problems are you having with these matchups specifically?
Click to expand...
How are Grundy, DS and Lex not Bad MUs?
Grundy outzones you and outchips you, and he can armor through anything you do if he wishes.
DS is just a pain coz guns punish SC and upclose he was better tools than Raven.
Lex gets ridiculous coz of Mines, probes and his armor. Having any of those out limits so many of your options its ridiculous.

Maybe I'm just missing something coz I struggle with Raven more than I do with any of my other characters >.>



Kiko said:
These are all general tips for the MU, we can go in depth on each one if you like.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the write-ups, I'll see if I can implement those into my game or switch it up. I just never feel like I'm in control of the match against anyone.
 
S

Sami

Warrior
Some tips to make the grundy match-up less painful. Note that these are pre-patch. No idea if yesterday's patch changed anything because I've had no time to play anything.

1) Walking Corpse's throw fails if you're off the ground. And by off the ground I don't just mean jumping. Teleport's animation lifts you off the ground. B23 lifts you off the ground, etc.
2) B23 beats all throws one way or another.
3) B23.

Since discovering the joy of B23 Grundy became easier. Not IMO in Raven's favour, but no longer the nightmare it was. B23 obviously leads to ~4 and then you can do pillars all day. Yes he can armour through them, but he's still taking damage.

One of my main issues with the Grundy match-up was getting him off me, and I didn't realise just how safe B23 is to throw out against him. The other issue is dealing with his 3-way mix-ups off of combo strings (overhead, low and throw), but no amount of tech will make that easier. Getting Grundy off you in the first place and keeping him away is the important part.

And never ever let yourself get hit by MB Swamp Hands at full screen as he's at so much advantage that he can triple dash and be back on you. Jump-ins are also completely suicidal unless done off of the Event Horizon standing reset as he can't wake-up out of it.
 
TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
Eternal Blaze said:
How are Grundy, DS and Lex not Bad MUs?
Grundy outzones you and outchips you, and he can armor through anything you do if he wishes.
Click to expand...
How the heck does Grundy outzone Raven? At any rate, it's a matter of not letting him get momentum - once he gets going, he really gets going, but Raven has a lot of tools to keep him out.


DS is just a pain coz guns punish SC and upclose he was better tools than Raven.
Click to expand...
*shrugs* It goes both ways. Gun shots will always punish a blocked Soul Crush, but likewise, unless you're at full screen, Soul Crush will always punish blocked Gun shots. If you're in Demon Stance, you can punish with Event Horizon at any range, and MB it into a full combo.

His up-close game does easily outclass Raven's, but it's not too difficult to get him out again - backdash is your friend.


Lex gets ridiculous coz of Mines, probes and his armor. Having any of those out limits so many of your options its ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Mines take a very long time to come out, though - he has to take a huge risk to set it up, and especially if you're in Demon Stance you can easily punish it. Corp Charge is annoying, but if you block it it's a free combo.


Maybe I'm just missing something coz I struggle with Raven more than I do with any of my other characters >.>
Click to expand...
Well, Hawkgirl has very extreme match-ups in general - Raven has an easier time than her against the likes of Sinestro and Batgirl, though fares worse against Killer Frost and Wonder Woman.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Pillars are 2% chip so just block and dash and hope you don't happen to get hit by a soul crush which I try not to do as much vs flash because of the torpedo thing.
 
Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
My views on some MUs straight to the point edition:

General views:
Demon Mode is not always de answer
Raven can defend herself upclose much more than what we think.

Superman: Pillars outzone him. Upclose d1 makes f2 whiff. Your pillar game must be on point. Failed Pillar? You die.
Aquaman: Even due to demon mode specials being so slow. Maybe a tad bit of advantage Raven but something like 5.01 - 4.99. From the Deep is faster than Pillar so you can't spam it that easily.
Catwoman: I've been playing this matchup a lot against who I consider an excellent Catwoman player. I can't see the point of demon mode in this MU. Pillars in the spot get fu*ked by Cat dash. You need to anticipate her movement. Overall I feel more confident with Projectiles in this mu. If she gets close d1, f13 and f222 are your best allies.
Green Lantern: Either the GLs I've been playing are playing the MU wrong or this is very uphill for them (probably the second).
Green Arrow: His F2d13 has insane priority, but you make meter quicker.

Tough MUs: Doomsday, Killer Frost (let's explore it more with her newest nerfs), Wonder Woman, Ares looks tough, probably Hawkgirl, Scorpion (more testing after his nerfs)

I would really love to know how you guys are handling the Zod MU, will play it tomorrow.

Also why you consider Nightwing a tough MU?
 
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