Rate Your Main Injustice Character(s)

[Axel_Redd]

Deathstroke:

Offense (4/5) : Good frametraps all around from J3 , f23 and f3 , his J3 is one of the best air normals in the game thanks to the huge hitbox and good active frames , unseable , safe and fast 50/50s ( b1 , d1 , b2 ) , f3 is a great space control footsie tool , wide arrange of knockdown setups to stuff most wakeups that lead into ambigous jump setups into 50/50s , midscreen crossup setups that allows for 33/33/33 mixups , great corner game that allows for bomb setups.

Defense (4/5) : between f3 , jumping back 3 , quickfire and air guns he controls how opponents have to approach and makes them hesitate more than they would normally , his wakeup game is way above average as his wakeups autocorrect on most ambigous crussup setups , multihit so he doesn't have to fear most MB f3/b3 , range on swordflip is good too , good anti air game with an underrated d2 , sword flip anti airs on reaction a good amount of jumpins and air quickfire to punish people jumping even fullscreen.

Trait (2/5) : has some good applications for setups or mindgames , depending on the stage i'd give him a 3/5 , good for closing out a round , gimmicky and punishable in the neutral game , corner setups are pretty scary.

Damage (2/3) : his damage isn't spectacular ( around 27-35 ) for no bars but his tools and mixups allows his to get constant burst of damage anywhere on the screen wether it be from a gunshot punish or a 50/50 mixup , doesn't need meter unless to get more damage from his b2 overhead and that's hit confirmable , he can choose to boost his damage by 2-3% using a MB quickfire midscreen and most characters can't do nothing about LGS chip when knocked down fullscreen.

Zoning (2/3) : solid runaway zoning that forces people to close the gap , quickfire being 2 fast hits stuffs moves with average startup , very hard to react to and solid fullscreen whiff punisher , on block LGS are punishable by a few characters even then he can MB delay them to be safer and makes punishing regular LGS harder.

Anti Zoning (3/3) : quickfire interrupts randomly thrown specials , one of the best and reliable fullscreen block punishers , MB version does 16% wich is better than most block punishers MB projectiles , LGS low profiling under high projectiles allows him to win trades and take no damage , air gunshots keep people out of the air and negates air projectiles on reaction.

Mobility (2/3) : his dashes and walkspeed are average but he has one of the best jump arcs in the game ( very Mortal kombat-ish ) high and fast and that's why i'm putting it at 2/3.

Interactable Usage (3/3) : very solid zoning options in most stages thanks to gun zoning keeping people grounded and sets up interactables after his knockdowns , prevents people from using interactables with air guns / quickfire very consistently.

Overall score: 22

what do u mean by 33/33/33 mixups?

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

Just some scrub posting his 2 cents on Shazam

Offense: 3/5 Incredibly silly knockdown game which is one of the few in the game which forces action or inaction from the opponent rather than high/low. As for why this is better than a high/low, it forces the opponent to actually do something which can be whiff punished/block punished/MB'd through etc. A person blocking high or low only has to worry about blocking correctly. A person that has to commit to a wakeup attack through a command throw is hoping that the wakeup attack isn't baited and that they guessed right. A lot more risk on the defender's part as well as Shazam's part. Though his offense is piddling, the knockdown game is what he is known for. It isn't perfect however, he has to somehow attain a knockdown. Atlas Torpedo and d3 are pretty good at doing that. Of course, the whole 'unthrowable' state on half the normals in the game also stop his spaced command throws pretty damn well. Curse you NRS code for making no sense on why moves are throwable/unthrowable. Feels like you threw a toggle in the game and flipped in randomly. Or design throws based on actual rectangles, not character hand width/length.

Defense: 4/5 Wakeup teleport is very strong since not only is it hard to punish, the opponent usually has to guess which version he's doing as well in order to properly punish. 6f d1 means he can poke out of strings and not lose his shirt while doing it. D2/f1 are fairly decent anti airs and b2/torpedo are his go to whiff punishers. His MB b/f3 is trash however, so it makes it really unfortunate for him if he wants to MB saaay, Catwoman mb b3 where his B3 will just completely whiff on her recovery animation.

Trait: 2/5 Decent trait for what it does. Too bad his best normals aren't punches. Too bad his trait actually changes gravity on his strings. Too bad, so sad. If only Shazam empowered his thunder toes and rocket knees with timberland boots and shock pads.

Damage: 2/3 Matches can be stolen out from under your nose with 1 right guess sometimes. MB Command throw MB B3 x2 being 50% with trait up isn't as impractical as you might think. Unfortunately his damage is directly tied to his meter usage. Often he'll run out of meter when he's dominating a round to lose his entire health bar building meter MK9 style, then on the third round go ham and bet on black.

Zoning: 2/3 No, not Bolt of Zeus. Herculean Might/Atlas Torpedo is what goes here. You know that range where Aquaman can b1 you? Shazam can just throw you from there if he thinks you're napping. That throw range is the utmost danger zone for you when you fight Shazam. He can grab you, he can Torpedo you for trying to duck preemptively, he can torpedo you for attempting to moving or attacking. He is great at that specific just outside sweep distance fight. Sure, green lantern can b1 and superman has f2, but that's why they're grown men where Shazam is a 12 year old. He hasn't learned how to save himself from making stupid decisions by putting +s on everything.

Anti-Zonpffthtahahahhaahahayeahright 1/3 Press buttons on this character. His buttons are awful and can't compete. And if you want to throw in projectiles, he's screwed the pooch too many times till sunday. Avoid the danger zone as mentioned above and his ability to hit you is very very subpar.

Mobility: 2/3 Great dashes, teleport not so great but his dashes are super good. Great j.2 so he can jump and not get yelled at by the cast for doing it unlike say, Bane.

Interactable Control 3/3- Power Character + Torpedo. Nuff said.

19/30

 

[Crathen]

what do u mean by 33/33/33 mixups?

It means the opponent has to guess on a 3 way mixup , crossup f3 has to be blocked with forward , b1u2 has to be blocked with down and b2/f3 has to be blocked with back , basically he they have a 1/3 chance of guessing right instead of 1/2 that a typical 50/50 gives.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Dick Grayson (Robin I, Nightwing, Batman II)

Offense: 3.5/5 (If NW's U3/D3 and U3 actually were useful....30 frame normals smh. NW has nice range on his normals, B2 does a lot of work. 113 is pretty good if you mix it up into your punish game)
Defense: 3/5 (His wake ups get blowned up, any neutral jump attack beats Wake up Flip Kick, any D2 beats Flying Grayson. I've seen NWs wake up with Escrima Fury...lol. But when NW is in the corner, Flying Grayson can get him out.
Trait: 4.5/5 (IMO, I would give it a 5 if Staff had a close to below average dash, but it's not even close, but this trait is still 5 top in the game; Nightwing becomes the best character in the game in the corner.
Damage: 2/3 (Not Aquaman, Superman, Lobo, Grundy or Bane damage output, NW has respectable damage I began to learn when I optimized my combos.
Zoning: 2/3 (Ground blast is +8 on block and +19 when its MBed, Ground Spark -4 which isn't bad at all. Wingdings are decent, terrible to do in a punishable rangem but most good NW's don't risk that)
AntiZoning: 2/3 - Harley Quinn, Cyborg, Sinestro, Hawkgirl, Superman all outzone Nightwing pretty easy.
Mobility: 2/3 (would be 3 if he could actually have a respectable jump arch, a quadruple jump (why does Batman have a double jump when Nightwing is the worlds best acrobat? and he should have Cyborg grapple hook, thats been a Nightwing move since his Teen Titan Robin days and be able to move in staff)
Interactable: 1/3


Total: 20

 

[Axel_Redd]

It means the opponent has to guess on a 3 way mixup , crossup f3 has to be blocked with forward , b1u2 has to be blocked with down and b2/f3 has to be blocked with back , basically he they have a 1/3 chance of guessing right instead of 1/2 that a typical 50/50 gives.

but then why put 33? lol im still confused xD

 

[Everlast]

but then why put 33? lol im still confused xD

Probably because in a 50/50 you have a 50% chance to guess right
If you have a 1/3 or a 33/33/33 chance to guess right that is ruffly 33%. more like 33.333333ect.%

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

cyborg

- Offense: (2/5) shit damage without meter, hard to set up 50/50s... really good down 1 and vaccum is good. but overall he sucks upclose. shit range

- Defense: (3/5) real good runaway game with the zipline/dash/good dp/fireballs to hit them out of the air/missles to lock them out. but gets bodied by charcaters with gimmick ways to get in.

- Trait: (1/5) a slow, useless, nonexistent piece of terrible game design

- Damage: (1/3) midscreen damage is shit without specific setups or a back 3. corner damage is high though. you will never land combos tho so 1

- Zoning: (3/3) clearly fireball missles zoning is his best thing

- Anti-Zoning: (1/3) martian and sinestro zoning own his ass up free

- Mobility: (3/3) zipline/dash

- Interactables: (3/3) fireballs to cover where the interactables are is really good control.

17/30.

 

[Axel_Redd]

Probably because in a 50/50 you have a 50% chance to guess right
If you have a 1/3 or a 33/33/33 chance to guess right that is ruffly 33%. more like 33.333333ect.%

ah ok.

as much as i like deathstroke, i need to start fighting him, good ones.

 

[Syknis]

Aquaman:

Offense (4/5) Has strong mixup game due to f1 being positive but is negative after a failed 50/50 hit confirm. One of the best footsie tools in the game with his 9 frame b12 and f1 having a 7 frame start up. Has setups and JFT to force people to commit to things on wake up.

Defense (4/5) One of the best characters that can sit on a life lead. With a combination of D2, trait, b12, trident rush and watershield aquaman is a knightmare to open up. The only thing keeping him from that perfect score is his wake up game which is susceptible to well timed jump in's.

Trait (5/5) Definitely in the top 5 trait conversation. Can use it to punish a punish in some cases. Forces people to punish his 50/50's with a less damaging combo. And it can be used to create "defensive option selects" against certain 50/50.

Damage (2/3) Above average. With one bar he can get 33%/40% midscreen without stage bounce from his 50/50's.

Zoning (1/3) Aquaman doesn't necessarily have any zoning attributes but he does have excellent space control. D2, water shield, FTD and trident rush let's Aquaman control his real estate. 1 for zoning 2 for space control.

Anti-Zoning (2/3) Some characters can shut down his FTD option but if he can use it then its a great anti-zoning tool. Really great jump in 2. Can discourage zoning with life lead and watershield. Has some problems against characters that can control the air well.

Mobility (2/3) Below average back dash. Tall hitbox Pretty good recovery on his forward dash though. FTD helps. Doesn't have any special mobility attributes but then again nothing is really holding him back.

Interactable Object Control (3/3) Power character. Has to avoid interactables just like everyone else.
Total: 23/30

 

[Everlast]

ah ok.

as much as i like deathstroke, i need to start fighting him, good ones.

Good Deatstrokes are a pain in the ass to fight. i found after i played as him for a little bit (not the lame way) it really helped fight them because its rare to come across a not lame DS online. And a DS with lag, forget about it.

 

[Axel_Redd]

Good Deatstrokes are a pain in the ass to fight. i found after i played as him for a little bit (not the lame way) it really helped fight them because its rare to come across a not lame DS online. And a DS with lag, forget about it.

from what i know of the character, its only a pain if u don't understand his shortcomings. Every blocked gunshot is a free dash in. Therefore deathstroke shouldn't be mindlessly spamming guns, but at the same time if he doesnt shoot at all for fear of being blocked and punished, then the other player can simply dash in or continue walking in on them. He can't really zone, so much as he can anti zone. To quote shakespear "To shoot, or not to shoot! That is the question!!"

 

[Espio]

Hawkgirl/Shayera


Offense (4/5): Lacks 50/50 mix ups, but makes up for it with tons of safe strings and mobility options like mace charge and wing evade 3 that allow her to chip the opponent out heavily. Strings are of average speed generally, excellent down 1 for initiating offense. Hawkgirl can deal tons of damage quickly and effectively with her offense due to MB mace charge and mace toss. Mix up game gets huge buffs in the corner due to wing evade 2 not whiffing like it does mid screen.


Defense (4/5): Her down 2 is a superb 9 frame anti-air with a crazy good hitbox. Wing evade can be used to get out of string gaps and punish hard for big damage, down 1 is great for interrupting frame gaps, pressure and can combo into safe on block specials. Trait allows her to avoid armor characters and pressure in general, which allows her to establish a zoning or runway game if needed.


Trait (4/5): Trait allows her to avoid a large plethora of zoning tools from Superman’s laser’s to Killer Frost’s iceberg/daggers. She can avoid grounded pressure much easier than most character and avoid armor heavy characters with it. What Keeps this being a 5/5 trait is that there are a handful of match ups where trait is almost useless as some characters prevent her from flying at all safely and force her to the ground.


Damage (2/3): While Hawkgirl’s combos are not massively devastating midscreen she makes up for this with her extremely good MB specials (MB mace charge does 21% damage on hit), her ability to stack on damage quickly and her corner damage is where she shines, leaving her as a middle of the road damage character, not bad but not great either.


Zoning (2/3): Has a place in many match ups, good for building meter and sitting on a lifelead and baiting reactions from your opponent. It’s not her main focus, but compliments her tool set.


Anti-Zoning (1.5/3): This field is tricky because there are multiple characters that her trait and air MB mace toss and other options allow her to counterzone and deal with (such as Aquaman, Killer Frost, Superman) and characters that she struggles with their zoning (Sinestro) so she can counterzone quite a few characters on the roster decently, she still struggles with zoning in some respects as well.


Mobility (2.5/3): Very close to 3, if not for her mobility being limited by heavy zoning she would be a 3. Wing evade 3, mace charge, trait and her forward walk speed are really solid, safe tools for footsies. Her back dash is average. She can get in and out at will fairly easily in most matches.


Interactable Control (2/3): Being a power character gives her a huge boost plus being able to grab interactables while in trait is a huge asset unique to her. She can also punish interactables easier than most due to things like trait mace charge and also avoid many interactables by virtue of her trait.


22/30

 

[Zyphox]

Flash:

Offense (5/5): safe 50/50s, some of the best oki in the game, great at staying in someones face (punishes characters for trying to backdash or jump out of pressure with ease) Having top mobility also adds to his offense

Defense (4/5): Flying uppercut is great for controlling movement (jumps, dashes, certain specials) has long range normals that have to be respected when trying to get in on him. Solid wake-ups that all have a use

Trait (4/5): Adds tons of damage to almost any given combo, grants free chip and mix-ups vs some characters when they don't have meter

Damage(2/3): kinda average without trait

Zoning(0.5/3): no projectile, though moves like Sonic pound and charge can sort of "zone" your opponent by the mere threat of them

Anti-zoning(2/3): LC punishes alot of zoning tools, Speed Dodge can prevent getting chipped, Sonic pound hops over some moves

Mobility (2/3): Great walk speed, ridiculously fast dash with great range. Sonic pound can be used to get in on some characters without great backdash if spaced properly.

Interactable object control (1.5/3): charge and Flying uppercut can be useful for punishing the use of some interactables but generally Flash has a hard time controlling most of them. Speed dodge makes avoiding them really easy though

21 Total

i agree with most, just put damage at 3, there are three types of damages, 1, 2, or 3 IMO flash is in 3 despite traitless damage BnB are low, some other combos can get you more daamge in the 40%+ but are impractical unless you are comfortable doing them. also anti zoning IMO is at a 3 as well. every high projectile in the game can be ducked and LC punished except for KF icicles. mid screen you can duck ravens, ares, batgirls, zod's sinestro, shazam, HG, DS, harley's, jokers and aquamans high fireballs. also using LC to react to the start up of moves like MMH orbs (non MB) supermans lasers, zatanna's fireball and if your daigo you can react to her hat throw etc. just because he doesn't have a tele doesn't mean he can't anti zone with the best of them. i think his mobility also deserves a 3, you don't have to have a high jump like adam or rediculous backdash to have high mobility. flash has LC sonic pound, RMS, fastest dash, 2nd fastest forward walk. decent jump. also RMS 1 to go under projectiles like ravens to punish is really good, its faster than regular LC.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Wonder Woman
Offense 5/5 : Endless 50 50s and plus frames in lasso. You pushblock or you die, period. In SS, with meter, Wonder Woman can just bash you and bash you for days, plus her d1 and j2 are annoying to deal with and j2 leads to like 50 percent and oki. Oh yeah, and some of the best oki in the game.

Defense 4/5 : Two parries, and shield stance takes reduced chip. Great antiair and solid backdash. Only things missing are a wake up and a GTFO move.

Trait 5/5 : Hard to judge technically, it doesnt do anything by itself, but it opens up her other tools. Allows for switches in between types of offense, turtling in SS, mobility in LS, truly essential to her game.

Damage 3/3 : 40 percent meterless midscreen, 50 in the corner, 50 midscreen with 1 bar from staff, and all of this coming from common mixups and setups. She hits hard.

Zoning 1.5/3 : No full screen projectile, and tiara has atrocious recovery. However, in SS shield toss is a pretty fast check to stop movement, and instant air shield bash can give some space. Combined with shield bsh, its hard to move against her.

Antizoning 3/3 : Fast dashes, projectile parry, air dash, and iaDG. And in SS she can just sit there and block with a health lead. What more could you ask for?

Mobility 3/3: Once again, in Ls we have iaDG, an air dash, solid dashes, large jump arc and good air normals, and combos with huge corner carry too. SS doesnt have as good of mobility with crappy dashes and a hop, but shield bash covers a lot of the screen.

Interactable Control 2/3: iaDG stops a lot of airborn interactables. Good dash to get below them too, but nothing special to stop the use of them or anything.

Total : 26.5/30

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Harley
Offense: 4/5 She has a corner 50/50 reset small amount of damage though. Her overheads are slow but lows are quick.

Defense: 3/5 Only gets 2 viable wake-up options in Silly slide and Tantrum stance and tantrum isn't really safe. But if you see a reverse jump-in input set-up by your opponent , silly slide tantrum cancel can snuff those (learned that from watching Saltface)

Trait: ?/5 This is so questionable. Its a damage and defense buff or 6% health or 15% unblockable damage but it's rarely the one you want when you need it. Sooo it's really 1/5 or 4/5

Damage: 3/3 Meterless 40+ midscreen and corner combos with upper 50s and low 60s for one bar.

Zoning: 3/3 Gunshot, Air-gun shot, cupcakes and a chargable unblockable projectile (with a chance at failing though)

AntiZone: 1.5/3 if in the right range cupcakes can cause a hardknock down or juggle long enough to help you get in with silly slide.

Mobility: 2/3 Ok dashes but silly slide and trantrums reach is amazing. Would be 3/3 if you could MB Silly slide to give 1 hit of armor. Would even out some of her harder MUs

Interactable: 2/3 Doesn't get to do a B3 with backround bounce interactables like most characters, but can use bombs are certain stages for bomb resets with Sillyslide.

Total: 19.5 or 22.5 / 30 Depends on your view of her trait really.

 

[rev0lver]

that is a best possible scenario. i already discussed this with my friend, we agreed on 3.5 max offense. you gotta compare lex best case offense to characters like batgirl and killer frost who have endless unseeable 50/50s, killer frosts safe fast advancing special, batman and flash with their free safe pressure and ease of getting in, green lanterns high damage mixup 50/50 game, etc. I dont feel right giving lex a 4 in the face of a lot of characters who work way less for much better offense.

With Lex in the corner you have to guess right on like 6 50/50's until trait is gone. That's kind of messed up lol. You might have to work harder to get trait up to go in and stuff but I still think it's really good. Even without trait his offense is like a 3 at worst.

And there's no way his trait is average. I'd rather have it than Doomsday's too even though DD's is good vs him. Being able to take no damage/chip and going through anything without stun is awesome. Plus the recovery time and the fact that you can get it off a ton of things.

 

[Scoot Magee]

This is how I feel about Green Arrow

Offense (3/5) It's hard to open people up without having them in the corner or an ice arrow equipped. I think is offense is average at best.

Defense (3/5) Savage blast and MB slide are decent wake up options. Sky alert and bow spin have their uses also. D1 is pretty fast with good range, it's good to get out of pressure when canceled into savage blast.

Trait (4/5) His trait is one of the best imo because of how many different options you have with it. Frame traps, zoning, 50/50 and ect.

Damage (1/3) His damage is really low compared to the rest of the cast. He gets good damage when uses lots of meter or a wall bounce but overall it's below average.

Zoning (2/3) It's hard to say for sure so I will go with 2/3. I think his zoning could be slightly better than that. When arrow gets momentum with arrows he can really control whats going on. Not to mention being able to dash cancel, high/low and hold. You can really open certain characters up from mid range with the threat of an arrow.

Anti-Zoning (2/3) I would say 2/3 for the same reasons as above.

Mobility (2/3) Because he has one of the best forward dashes in the game and savage blast for running away. Not so good are his back dash and walk speed.

Interactable Object Control (2/3) It's hard to avoid power objects but you can get over some with dead on, arrows can stop people from grabbing them though.. He has some useful stuff, most notably with the machine gun and the laser but power characters usually control the stage. Objects you can plant bombs on are decent as well.

Total: 19 / 30

 

[RIF]

Sinestro

Offense (3.5/5): Standing vortex negates wake up attacks, good punishing strings, fast overhead with limited range, AoT is a good tool for starting offense, most strings have limited range and speed starter, no low starter

Defense (2.5/5): D2 is a solid anti-air, backdash is average, Arachnid sting is an average wake-up, susceptible to strong oki, has no gtfo moves, must use pushblock to get out of most sticky situations

Trait (4.5/5): Arguably one of the best traits in the game, provides frame traps and much needed defensive/offensive options, can completely turn a match-around, can be difficult to get out against a good portion of the cast

Damage (1/3): Some of the lowest BNB damage in the game, his vortex mix-ups often don't break 20% w/o trait, using meter in combos doesn't yield a large damage boost, gets big damage in the corner but then again so does most of the cast

Zoning (2/3): Fear Blast & Rocks are solid zoning tools, delayed fear blast can force an opponent to guess on their movement, fear blast whiffs on too many characters when crouched at anything other than completely full screen, rocks are extremely punishable and can only be used in certain situations, when trait is active his zoning improves drastically

Anti-Zoning (2/3): Shackles can stop a zoning character from getting started allowing trait charging, speed of Fear Blast can shut down many other projectiles, rocks can stop zoning from the air, trait can be used to establish Sinestro's own zoning momentum

Mobility (1/3): Average dash, A0T is decent for altering jump trajectory, no aerial movement

Interactable Control (2/3): Rocks can stop people from throwing airborne objects, trait can pin people down to allow Sinestro access to items, power-character, w/o trait his interactable game is severely weakened

18.5 / 30

 

[Jim]

Get out of here....

What part do you disagree with? I saw your number and mine aren't too different. I have him a bit better but I didn't up play him, he's a really good character.

 

[miloPKL]

With Lex in the corner you have to guess right on like 6 50/50's until trait is gone. That's kind of messed up lol. You might have to work harder to get trait up to go in and stuff but I still think it's really good. Even without trait his offense is like a 3 at worst.

And there's no way his trait is average. I'd rather have it than Doomsday's too even though DD's is good vs him. Being able to take no damage/chip and going through anything without stun is awesome. Plus the recovery time and the fact that you can get it off a ton of things.

in my post i said lex corner game is good. even with that i dont feel right giving him more than 3.5. his trait is certainly average compared to most the cast. but i guess its a matter of opinion. but many cast members have traits that dwarf his, clearly. superman, bane, doomsday, many cast members have multi hit invincible wakeups, no other cast members have a trait that multiply the damage they receive, lex trait is nullified by grundys spores and scorpions flame traits... to name a few. i think my numbers are fair in relation to the rest of the cast.

 

[RIF]

I think a lot of people are over-estimating their characters.

We should discuss who is considered the TOP for each option.

Offense: MMH, Flash, Batman
Defense: Hawkgirl, Grundy
Damage: Bane, Grundy
Trait: Raven, Lex, Batman
Zoning: Sinestro, Green Lantern, etc?
Anti-Zoning: Superman, ???
Mobility: MMH, WW
Interactable Control: Scorpion, Zod, MMH

 

[rev0lver]

in my post i said lex corner game is good. even with that i dont feel right giving him more than 3.5. his trait is certainly average compared to most the cast. but i guess its a matter of opinion. but many cast members have traits that dwarf his, clearly. superman, bane, doomsday, many cast members have multi hit invincible wakeups, no other cast members have a trait that multiply the damage they receive, lex trait is nullified by grundys spores and scorpions flame traits... to name a few. i think my numbers are fair in relation to the rest of the cast.

No way. I think Lex's trait is possibly top 3 in the game. That's not to say it's great in every matchup but it's still viable in every matchup, you just can't go in braindead with it. Like Bane for example, you can't use it against level 3 venom but it makes Bane need that level 3 venom to do things to you. And it's not just Lex's corner game that's messed up. Trait anywhere midscreen plus mines and probes makes him super tough to defend against. Without trait, his ability to control the air, whiff punish, and his guessing games in pressure are super good even if they're not Batman level or something.

 

[Dr. Handsome]

Whatdifferou disagree with? I saw your number and mine aren't too different. I have a bit better but I didn't up play him, he's a really good character.

In a forum like this, a few points make a big difference. I'm sorry man, but its upplaying like this that ruins the image of flash. The point in zoning should not be, lc does not count. And trait is not a 5. Most games played with it can easily backfire.

 

[Zyphox]

Flash
Offense (4/5)- I'm only even giving this as high of a score as I am because I'll be chewed up for putting a 3.5. 55-60% off either an overhead or low starter is insane, I'll totally agree on that. But people don't get that the low starter, regardless of startup frames, is extremely short ranged, and the overhead, while somewhat advancing, is obnoxiously slow, regardless of what the frames sight. It's simply easy to spot. Without a reliable wakeup, this offense will stomp you, but as long as you have something to recover with, it will shut Flash's game down. Zyphox can lay down all the bullshit crossups he wants, there are ways around them, and they aren't reliable. Compared to characters with vortexes, Flash's offense just isn't flat out 5/5.

Defense (2/5)- (Not to be confused with anti-zoning as listed). Besides well timed sonic uppercuts, there isn't much here. And even those are extremely punishable. He gets a point for his uppercut, but again, compared to many other characters it isn't even that good, with a smaller window for anti air than many others such as Aquaman. His job is to get in. If he's being forced to defend, Flash is probably losing anyway.

Trait (3/5)- Gets a decent score for being the catalyst of his damage, and for being able to play some mind games when ahead on life lead. General M2Dave and others might have you believe that Flash's trait has not yet fully been tapped into, but they are wrong. There's really only so much you can do with a move that takes away your block button and increases the active frames of your opponents attacks. Overall, the activation is better than much of the cast, but still worse than others (Zod, Batman...)

Damage (3/3)- Again, I'll be ostrisized for giving it less than the full score. If we're only talking flat damage, it obviously deserves the 3. I'm not a fan of 50/50 vortexes and will always consider their potential better than flat damage.

Zoning (0/3)- He's a non-projectile character, one of the few in the game, and with some of the shortest combo starters. Nothing else to say, he isn't meant to zone.

Anti-Zoning (3/3)- Put your pistol away, it isn't happening. Lightning charge shuts down a good 75% of the zoning in this game, arguably more. While compared to MMH or Batgirl, he may not even deserve the full score, but its undeniable that he'll make most zoners reconsider the continuous use of a projectile. Flying uppercut when used properly can halt many attempts at the use of interactables. And speed dodge takes care of those that aren't reachable. In my opinion, this is what makes Flash a decent character, not his damge, which is totally overrated (even above).

Mobility (2.5/3)- Cry all you want, he's not getting the full score for this. But its still one of his more positive characteristics. Fastest walk speed, and ONE OF the best dashes (Lobo's is very comparable). What those who don't regularly train with flash players is that the distance of his dash can, at times, be a detriment. Many characters can lame out with a life lead and, while playing smart, punish a dash in of this distance. Obviously the safest method of travel is to walk, but some situations call for more.

Interactable Object Control (3/3)- Woops! Covered this in anti-zoning. Oh well, still pertains. Flying uppercut, speed dodge, nuff said.

Score- 20.5/30. That's a good score! Of course! Great even. But amazing? Top tier? No... The Flash is a good character in a cast of broken characters. Those without proper matchup experience will label him as absurd, but he isn't. Get enough matches in with him, and what appears to be a death touch will becoming nothing short of a unique block scheme. I lost 2-1 to Trepound at NEC. I don't think Hawkgirl is broken now, I simply didn't know the MU (dem frame traps). Pimpimjim won using Hawkgirl for a fair amount of his matches, still doesn't make her broken, people just weren't ready for her. The point is, I think there will be those who have the opposite reaction, sighting her as a slept on, incredible character, much as Flash has been labeled. A year from now, if Injustice is still played, Flash will be learned, and viewed as a mid to upper mid-tier character. The words "top 5" make me cringe. Top ten is arguable, but nothing more. Green Lantern, Aquaman, Zod, MMH, Batman, Batgirl, KF, Black Adam, and Superman are all more versatile characters. Flash is simply too...2-D to compare much longer from today.

M2Dave, this was actually quite fun. Good thinking man! I like this forum. Now tell me what a fool I am and how wrong this breakdown of the flash is.

i like how you mention me yet you don't know that flash has a vortex everywhere on screen, also you don't have to do every set up on knockdown, you can just wait and bait a wake up and punish. also you forgot flash's wake ups like LK dash cancel wake up gets him out of almost everything in this game. and HG is a very bad MU for flash imo so losing to one isn't too bad, flash can't pressure her on wake up unless she is in the corner so you have to guess between WE or MC wake up. she can't fly all day because of FU into 50% combos but she doesn't need to in this match, her rushdown give the flash fits. i usually NJ or jump back to avoid WE 1's and d1 into WE or MC but its still not easy.

 

[AK elitegoomba]

Wowo

Offense: 5/5
Great mixups, great pressure, great oki, frame traps, etc. Only tool she does not have offensively is a safe way to challenge back dash imo

Defense: 5/5
6f d1, parries, less chip in sword, d3 hurtbox abuse, decent backdash, invincible launching wakeup, amazing d2

Trait: 5/5
Adds an entirely different moveset and jump arc to her arsenal. Allows for huge corner damage. 1f parry that hits regardless and is safe on block. Mb shield bash for huge advantage and coniltinued pressure. D1 is 7f and +3 in SS. Less chip taken in SS. Shield toss is a half decent projectile

Damage: 3/3
Midscreen high 30s or 40s, corner always 40+. Can convert good damage off almost any touch

Zoning: 1/3
Good normals for spacing but no real projectile

Anti zoning: 2/3
Iadg is a good tool to challenge projectiles but is often unsafe and completely vulnerable on whiff. Parry is good for navigating zoning. SS chip reduction can force a zoner to come to you

Mobility: 3/3
Very solid dashes, air dash, iadg

Interactables: 2/3
Good when you can use them, but most players to run from wowo and don't really hang around to get hit with them. Corner escapes really hurt her momentum and can be hard to punish. They more often work against her than for her

Total: 26/30